Article [13] ST1300 - Pre-load Fluid Replacement

Igofar said:
Good point and explanation thanks.
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You did post a good question and just to put a cap on it I asked one of my customers today to school me on hydraulic jack oil. He sells hydraulic jacks, parts, and supplies. He said he is not aware of any specific ratings or standards for jack oils unlike motor oils but the products that give qualities or specifications on the bottle or literature may refer to containing 10 or 20 weight light mineral oil. I looked one up that Autozone sells as Jack Oil and it has a viscosity index of 36 (ISO) and is "10 weight". I looked up the numbers on the pictured Honda SS8 fork oil and it has a viscosity rating of 36.47 and is described as 10 weight. For the preload adjuster it should work just fine.
 
Now you have me wondering what weight mmo oil is.
My guess would be somewhere around atf fluid?
It would sure keep the inside of the adjuster clean and maybe not turn white and ransid like the stock stuff.
Thanks for sharing
 
Igofar said:
Now you have me wondering what weight mmo oil is.
My guess would be somewhere around atf fluid?
It would sure keep the inside of the adjuster clean and maybe not turn white and ransid like the stock stuff.
Thanks for sharing
Click to expand...
Maybe Showa does use vegetable oil from the factory!

All I know is the shock adjuster on my bike contains a mix of Honda SS8 and SS7 fork oil that I put in there almost exactly 71,000 miles ago. It still works like the first day I put it in there - the adjuster takes up at about 1 turn from completely turned counterclockwise to the stop but I never leave the shock preload setting on the shock for more than a day or two. If the bike sits for longer than this time I always unload the adjuster back to zero preload so that the oil is not under constant pressure for days, weeks, months, or years.

EDIT: A cursory search on MMO shows it may have a viscosity index (ISO) of 2 or 3 - awfully thin even compared to the lightest of fork oils which start at about 5 which may be compared to SAE "weights" of less than 3 wt. Back in my airhead days lots of folks like to put ATF in the forks. I think what documentation there was showed ATF at about 10 "weight". The information at the below site says ATF is 34 (ISO) which roughly corresponds to SAE 10 wt.


http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid
 
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Igofar said:
I have found an even easier short cut! Instead of removing the knob, spring and detent ball, then removing the (2) 10mm bolts, unclipping the line from the fender, loosening the rear master cylinder bolt, and feeling the whole assembly over to the right side etc.....

New improved method:
1. Remove left side cover
2. Observe how the unit is bolted on
3. Instead of removing the 10mm bolts, follow the mounting bar upwards to where it bolts to the frame by the lift handle. You'll see (1) 10mm bolt. simply remove this one bolt, and gently pull the line free from the front of the rear fender. You can then simply turn the entire unit upside down on the left side of the bike without removing anything else. You now have a bar to hang onto while you loosen the banjo fitting. As far as having the line point in the correct position, I simply observe where it was before you loosen it, or mark it with a sharpie. I can now R&R one of these in about 10 minutes! Hope this helps.
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:eek:: Well !!! I should have read this entire thread before trying to replace the fluid in my Pre-Load. My wife frequently reminds me to read the whole article, all of the instructions.

I removed a million things including the top & bottom shock bolts only to find that I could not slide the shock out, I think mainly because of the way I had jacked up the bike on my hydraulic lift, the wheel/swingarm could not lower enough for clearance.
Had I READ Mellows Rear Shock Removal - https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?7679-ST1300-Rear-Shock-Removal I'm sure I would have got it out.

Also had I READ Igofar's thread #8 (above) and Throttlejocky's thread #47 I would have saved a ton of time and work AND would not have felt that I made a great new discovery,
when I actually just "reinvented the wheel".

I realized that like others before me @ st-owners:
1) I could simply removed the pre-load adjuster (two bolts).
2) Pull up the adjusters hydraulic line, adjuster still attached.
( I looped it behind the spring loaded center stand lift handle to keep fluid from draining out of hydraulic line when line was disconnected )
3) Used crescent wrench & 10mm to remove banjo bolt.
4) Press back down piston with narrow phillips screwdriver.
5) Filled pre-load adjuster with left over Honda fork oil (10wt).
6) Reassembled and it starts compressing the spring after about 3 clicks.

By the way, I never found any signs of leakage. I did have to put back all my shock bolts, foot peg mount bolts, side covers, etc.

Next time I'll read a lot more & hopefully work a lot less :bow1:
 
Throttlejockey said:
You will need new copper crush washers or it will leak. Since Honda doesn't list them separately you have to buy the entire shock assembly. :rofl1:
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Many moons ago I rebuilt my '69 Triumph. It had a copper head gasket, and the shop manual said to anneal this gasket before reuse. I heated the gasket cherry red, plunged it into cold water, and then with very fine wet-or-dry sandpaper and a flat block of wood,cleaned the remaining scale off the old gasket. It sealed perfectly when I reassembled the engine.

This trick has worked for me since then on the occasional copper crush washer that I did not have the foresight to replace with a new one before putting things back together. One notable problem was overheating a washer and melting it into a shapeless blob.
 
This whole matter of the rear shock preload adjustment (and rebound adjustment) on the ST 1300 is new to me, this because I have only owned a ST 1300 for a month. After watching the video in the first post (great video!), I attempted to adjust the preload, but did not note any difference when riding the bike.

Earlier this week, I visited Larry (Igofar) in San Jose, and he took a look at my bike. He removed the big black knob assembly that comprises the preload adjuster in the matter that Throttlejocky described in post #47. This was a remarkably quick and simple operation, took about 10 minutes.

He then screwed the knob all the way out (least preload), and used a chopstick to push the piston within the adjustor to the bottom (towards the knob). Then, he turned the assembly upside down, and we discovered that the entire preload cylinder was dry! There was no fluid in it! That was why I was getting no results when I tried to adjust the preload - I was just compressing air, not pushing fluid into the shock.

Larry rinsed out the preload adjuster with hydraulic fluid of some kind, and all sorts of white crud came out (assembly lubricant from the Honda factory, perhaps?). Then, he filled the cylinder with hydraulic fluid, re-installed it, and screwed the preload knob all the way in. That transferred the new fluid into the preload chamber of the shock. He then removed the adjuster, unscrewed the knob, pushed the piston down with the chopstick, and once again filled the adjuster mechanism with fluid. Then he re-installed the adjuster.

Wow - what a difference! Now, resistance was felt beginning with about the 2nd click from the fully extended position of the adjuster knob. There was now sufficient fluid in the adjuster section to make the preload adjustment operate as it was designed to. He set the preload adjustment and the rebound adjustment up to suit my weight (about 180 pounds for me riding solo, plus about 50 pounds of cargo in the panniers and Corbin Smuggler), and I went for a ride... it felt like a totally different bike! The ride was more comfortable and the rear wheel stayed on the ground when going over bumps.

So, for any other ST 1300 'newbies' out there like me, I really encourage you to read this whole discussion carefully, and if nothing else, make sure that the preload assembly actually has fluid in it. It helps a lot to see someone else who is really familiar with the system do the job the first time around... if you are close to California, I encourage you to send Larry a PM and set up a time to visit him. He really knows this system well.

Michael
 
CYYJ said:
This whole matter of the rear shock preload adjustment (and rebound adjustment) on the ST 1300 is new to me, this because I have only owned a ST 1300 for a month. After watching the video in the first post (great video!), I attempted to adjust the preload, but did not note any difference when riding the bike.

Earlier this week, I visited Larry (Igofar) in San Jose, and he took a look at my bike. He removed the big black knob assembly that comprises the preload adjuster in the matter that Throttlejocky described in post #47. This was a remarkably quick and simple operation, took about 10 minutes.

He then screwed the knob all the way out (least preload), and used a chopstick to push the piston within the adjustor to the bottom (towards the knob). Then, he turned the assembly upside down, and we discovered that the entire preload cylinder was dry! There was no fluid in it! That was why I was getting no results when I tried to adjust the preload - I was just compressing air, not pushing fluid into the shock.

Larry rinsed out the preload adjuster with hydraulic fluid of some kind, and all sorts of white crud came out (assembly lubricant from the Honda factory, perhaps?). Then, he filled the cylinder with hydraulic fluid, re-installed it, and screwed the preload knob all the way in. That transferred the new fluid into the preload chamber of the shock. He then removed the adjuster, unscrewed the knob, pushed the piston down with the chopstick, and once again filled the adjuster mechanism with fluid. Then he re-installed the adjuster.

Wow - what a difference! Now, resistance was felt beginning with about the 2nd click from the fully extended position of the adjuster knob. There was now sufficient fluid in the adjuster section to make the preload adjustment operate as it was designed to. He set the preload adjustment and the rebound adjustment up to suit my weight (about 180 pounds for me riding solo, plus about 50 pounds of cargo in the panniers and Corbin Smuggler), and I went for a ride... it felt like a totally different bike! The ride was more comfortable and the rear wheel stayed on the ground when going over bumps.

So, for any other ST 1300 'newbies' out there like me, I really encourage you to read this whole discussion carefully, and if nothing else, make sure that the preload assembly actually has fluid in it. It helps a lot to see someone else who is really familiar with the system do the job the first time around... if you are close to California, I encourage you to send Larry a PM and set up a time to visit him. He really knows this system well.

Michael
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Where did you end up on damping adjustment for 230 lbs?
 
Was just checking mine and noticed that it has no detent in the knob. As far as I can remember it has never had any 'clicks' when using it and I have owned the bike since new in 2003.
Does anyone have a picture or diagram of the spring and ball or a description of how it mounts inside the knob. I want to determine if it just never had a detent or maybe a dealer removed it at some time.
 
ShallowAl said:
Does anyone have a picture or diagram of the spring and ball or a description of how it mounts inside the knob. I want to determine if it just never had a detent or maybe a dealer removed it at some time.
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There should be a drilled hole In the side of the adjuster main body that the spring and ball set in to. Working from memory it is about 2 or 3 mm. It is nothing special, just a spring that pushes on a ball that detents in to the knob every 180? of rotation. It is easily "lost" when removing the knob as it is under tension. If you were to have a caliper to measure the hole and its depth, you should be able to go to a hardware store and get something that will work. The ball should stick out of the hole with the spring in it. Start where the ball sticks out almost all of the way. Shorten spring as needed so the knob will turn, yet you can feel/hear the detents. It is not a critical length. Just has to function.

I have a stock shock and adjuster at home I could measure if you can not get those measurements on your own.
 
ShallowAl said:
Was just checking mine and noticed that it has no detent in the knob. As far as I can remember it has never had any 'clicks' when using it and I have owned the bike since new in 2003.
Does anyone have a picture or diagram of the spring and ball or a description of how it mounts inside the knob. I want to determine if it just never had a detent or maybe a dealer removed it at some time.
Click to expand...

Here is a picture of the spring and ball
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Here is another article on how to service your Pre-load fluid. https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?106715-ST1300-Pre-load-Fluid-Replacement&highlight=
 
ShallowAl said:
Was just checking mine and noticed that it has no detent in the knob. As far as I can remember it has never had any 'clicks' when using it and I have owned the bike since new in 2003.
Does anyone have a picture or diagram of the spring and ball or a description of how it mounts inside the knob. I want to determine if it just never had a detent or maybe a dealer removed it at some time.
Click to expand...

The detents aren't very noticeable. Once dirt gets in there you definitely won't feel them. When you take the knob off put a bowl under the knob because if the ball or spring falls out then you'll probably never find them.
 
ShallowAl said:
Was just checking mine and noticed that it has no detent in the knob. As far as I can remember it has never had any 'clicks' when using it and I have owned the bike since new in 2003.
Does anyone have a picture or diagram of the spring and ball or a description of how it mounts inside the knob. I want to determine if it just never had a detent or maybe a dealer removed it at some time.
Click to expand...
If you refer to picture 3 in the first post in this thread you can see the hole in the body, spring, and ball. Other posts have said the adjuster wheel has two grooves spaced 180 degrees apart inside the wheel. These grooves and the ball & spring make the 'click' when the wheel is turned. It doesn't take long for the grooves to get full of crud and reduce or eliminate the 'clicks' when the thing is turned. Picture 8 shows one of the two white lines I painted on the adjuster as a solution. I count the lines when adjusting and the loss of clicks is no longer a problem. Also a white dot on the embossed dot on the outer face of the adjuster.
 
Thanks all for your help.
Found that the spring was still in the body, but of course the ball was gone. Must admit I really dont remember it ever clicking in the past !!.
I couldnt find another ball to replace the missing one, but managed to find a dome topped rivet with a shaft that fit perfectly inside the spring so I trimmed the shaft down to about 5mm long and popped it into the top of the spring. Works well ATM.
The gunk that came out of the adjuster was very dirty, looked like strands of fine fibre in an oily solution. I found the reason for the loss of oil was that the banjo bolt was hardly tight at all, almost didnt need to use a spanner.
All good now though.
 
On my new to me 2004 st i cannot get the banjo fitting loose. I do not want to damage anything else on it. Is there a way to fill it up from another location? Or do i have to get a couple of extra tools on it?
Thank You guys in advance.
 
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