Re-baking my ST1300 (Almost full redoing)

[draser]

I found a bearing broken in the rear wheel.

Yeah, I had that, the cage was gone along with several balls... reading the related forum info, it seems to be a relative common occurrence, that's why I took the flange apart to inspect these particular bearings. Used the forum article for pre-job preparation. Article was useful to me to learn that bearings go in/out relatively easily, don't have to pound a lot.

The rubber boot between the swing arm and the engine did not coupled good at the engine side, it's too big (did that happened to your bike?)

Yes, had a similar issue and fiddled with the boot a while, at the end I worked the swingarm up/down to ensure boot stays put.

 

[leondante]

Yeah, I had that, the cage was gone along with several balls... reading the related forum info, it seems to be a relative common occurrence, that's why I took the flange apart to inspect these particular bearings. Used the forum article for pre-job preparation. Article was useful to me to learn that bearings go in/out relatively easily, don't have to pound a lot.






Yes, had a similar issue and fiddled with the boot a while, at the end I worked the swingarm up/down to ensure boot stays put.

About the bearings, I agree. My press didn't need force at all, really easy to take them out.

I found some not-so-nice rattlings in some other bearings of both wheels. I would say they were at 80% of use. Also they smelled a lot, bad smell, bad grease, passed out for sure. Good thing to change them all, I'll be happy with that, even if it's not really necessary right now. I have heavy fidget spinners now, with funny rattling and every luxury thing.

About the rubber boot, in my situation it was a big gap, like 5 mm half-moon opening. I really don't want dirt to get in there. I really don't understand the reason of the gap, because both parts were fine. . I don't think is a bad thing to close it, so I've done it. Was not about pushing the swing arm or so, simply the thing was not the correct size or was intentionally oversized for a purpose I really ignore.

 

[leondante]

Yesterday and today were great days.

Finally the parts for my MIG/MAG welder arrived so I fixed it and used it. I created the tools for tightening the lock nut of the pivot of the swing arm, and the one for the steering stem lock nut and adjusting nut.

As you can see in the pictures, the tools were explicitly NOT intended to be but a brutal, massive, unified piece of scrappy (or crappy?) steel, just precise enough not to damage the nuts, and cautiously worked out to have well centered the square hole for the torque wrench. The thing worked extremely well. It took like three hour or so to polish and make the teeth of both things, so they fit perfectly in the nuts. The swing arm one should take 108 Nm. That's a pretty good tightening. This kinda mole stuff beared that torque with not a single sign of stress, bending, anything. It was asking for more and MORE. Really happy. Now I have the steering and the swing arm perfectly put on place.

About the steering. Mine had bumps and lumps and was loosey. I suggest to check yours for that if you have many years or kms/miles on it. bearings for some reason don't get broken or deformed, but anyways in the center position usually the thing get a weird bump that dissappears with a rework as simply as opening, cleaning, re-greasing and re-tightening. Mine now is as perfect as new. You have in the workshop manual how to check it. It has to need around 2 kg for moving. Thing really has to be tight to be good. Mine was not as close to that. Now it is.

Today finished that tools, tightened that thing, cleaned the brake disks and screws holes with a thread tap and put them again with their screw glue.

I'm starting brakes tomorrow I think. It will be full opening of brake calipers, cleaning of the tubing and reinstalling everything in place. I think the front fork will go first. Also I'm opening them for checking and changing the oil seals. Thing also had a nice greasy coating. Before dissasembing I'm checking the oil level in them to see if they really lack oil and the amount. If they don't lack oil that would mean that it should be a brakes leak, I think...

 

[leondante]

Today I opened, checked, cleaned and blablabla the fork things. Oil had that fishy smell that tells you that it's already passed out as Tutan Kamon. The bushings were said in the workshop manual that if they had more than 3/4 of the teflon coating off they should be changed. Damn thing had not only the teflon, but the copper and the steel too, almost. So I'm changing that too, and the oil seals. Almost all was full of a kind of greasy coating inside, rotten, weird thing. All was cleaned as hard as I can with gasoline. Hard to take all of that thing without a good agent to dissolve it. And I'm not as rich as paying weird thinner for this purpose.

So, after doing that, I started with the brake calipers, just the rear one for today. And just opening it. I've done this before and I can say that brakes were stout for sure, really dirty and full of crappy crap everywhere grabbing those pistons back. I hope I can get them as new as I did with some many others before. If seals are OK it will be easy. By now the rear one was bad. But fixable, as I see by the moment.

 

[draser]

Today finished that tools, tightened that thing

I used a cheap socket of appropriate size and my grinder to make me the swingarm tool, below. The existing tools I had used for other bikes did not work, of course, due to wrong size.

 

[leondante]

I used a cheap socket of appropriate size and my grinder to make me the swingarm tool, below. The existing tools I had used for other bikes did not work, of course, due to wrong size.

Yeah, I've done that before, but this time I wanted to be able to put a wrench inside to prevent the pivot bolt from turning with the nut. In the other hand I have not cheap sockets at hand and buying them was longer than creating one, as I have to travel. I live far from tool's stores.

 

[leondante]

Well, I've had some busy days so I just did a couple things. Also I'm fixing other stuff that requires my attention harder than the motorcycle (I'm fixing that stuff in order to get back to the motorcycle as I need the space and stuff). So, This is what I've done these past days.

I had an ultrasonic cleaner of 6.5 L that I bought 3 years ago and didn't get a successful cleaning with it before. I used it to clean the brake calipers. Damn thing stripped out the paint of the first one I put in there. Also the cleaner I used (a floor degreaser for workshops) electrolytized the copper of the back of the brake pads into every plated part, so everything was coppery. Was funny, as nothing was damaged but the aesthetic of the thing. So I'm painting the brake calipers red, and maybe in the future I'm painting the entire bike as dark gray. The calipers paint was weak, maybe because overheating, or use, I don't know, but I'm sure it was easy to take out, after cleaning the three of them.

I'm also changing the rear brake seals, front ones were OK but rear ones I messed up putting them in gasoline by mistake (I put the brake caliper without pistons but forget to take out the seals). Remember I said that rubber get bigger with gasoline? Well, that was the thing and also it gets weak, so when trying to take them out I cut them just a bit without intention, but enough to convince me to change them.

I didn't do anyhing more interesting than that. I just bought a lot of parts needed to put the wheels and front fork back in place, so I can stroll the bike around the garage when needed, a thing I need from time ago.

I took special care not to damage the secondary master cylinder as I noticed some parts were covered maybe in teflon or something plastic. It was a bit hard to clean these parts. I'm strongly convinced it was never dissasembled before, nor cleaned in any way. But I was very happy that it was not rusted like the clutch secondary cylinder. That thing happens with years and humidity in the circuit, that's why you should change the brake fluid even if it's OK, as doing it dissolve the humidity inside and takes it out a bit more with each change.

 

[leondante]

Hello again. I'm sad that I've spent almost two weeks without so much improvement, but I've been doing things. Some parts arrived, but now I messed up a front fork bushing, so I'm not having the front fork by now until buying that parts, and the front wheel bearings were different in the manual and in reality, mine are bigger, so no front wheel either. Now I'm with the brakes, the rear shock absorber is ready, the rear wheel too (it needs balancing yet but just that), and so on. Not worthy of taking pictures. I'm going again to it as I have again some free days ahead. I've been doing other needed things in order to go fixing the bike again.

 

[STumped]

Hello again. I'm sad that I've spent almost two weeks without so much improvement, but I've been doing things. Some parts arrived, but now I messed up a front fork bushing, so I'm not having the front fork by now until buying that parts, and the front wheel bearings were different in the manual and in reality, mine are bigger, so no front wheel either. Now I'm with the brakes, the rear shock absorber is ready, the rear wheel too (it needs balancing yet but just that), and so on. Not worthy of taking pictures. I'm going again to it as I have again some free days ahead. I've been doing other needed things in order to go fixing the bike again.

Love the updates! Keep them coming (and the pics, when able). I can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[CFL1300]

 

[leondante]

This lady is quite beautiful naked. I've seen the ST1100 naked too but for some reason the 1300 seems extremely better to me. The 1100, despite it behave really well, looked out of shape to my eyes about geometry for good riding. This one is very different. I can't wait the moment of riding it for the very first time. Also the lettering in the tyres are a game changer for me, thinknig about aesthetic. I'm considering even painting the letter on my car tyres too.

 

[leondante]

I forgot to say some things. All is mounted just to avoid damage in case it falls. The rear swing arm is done, the shock absorber finished (I have to finish the regulator yet, but all the other thing is done about it), the rear wheel needs balancing and it's finished (I changed the valve as it was rotten and cracked, put some AliExpress ones that seems really nice, in aluminium), and the front fork needs now the upper bushings as I broke one by mistake, scratching badly (to my eyes) the teflon coating. The front wheel lacks the bearings too, so all is mounted just for the sake of not having parts hanging around in corners and for supporting the bike in case the small cart I created to walk it around fails and throws it to the floor. I finished the steering and it's now great, with around 2 kg for moving it, not far from the workshop manual numbers for a new good steering. Time is feeling eternal about finishing this beast. I have a bathtub full of big plastic parts upstairs waiting for a deep clean and scrub of some long hours with floor degreaser and hot water since maybe three weeks. I'm lucky my wife loves me, as I know she hates that. That's her favorite bathroom.

 

[leondante]

I'm now seeing the brakes thing. I knew before starting that it will be a real deal to get that as new. I'm looking forward to finish all ready for the brake fluid filling. I'm thinking about using different pumps for the fluid and a vacuum pump tool I have and other things for getting a pretty airless filling. Also I'm trying to get a way of doing it without spending effort, abilities, tools, money, time... So people can copy, use or learn something from it.

Some examples...

- Syringe-based pumping system for filling it from the bleeding screws so no bubbles (mostly) get created. I know the SMC and other places won't get good as parts of the circuit are higher than the exit of the circuit, but could be good for just some parts of the circuit.

- Using a fridge compressor to make a vacuum pump to create complete vacuum before filling the circuit. If there is no air before filling you cannot have bubbles. The main issue with it is that piston seals allow one-way pass, so maybe it will get air that way. But I can try and check the thing. I also have a vacuum tool for AC systems, intended for full vacuum, but it won't be peoples reachable so I don't like it that much.

- Next one... High speed/high pressure filling, expelling bubbles as shooting a shotgun (pretty bad for the compensator valve and maybe some rubber seals), or well a high flow device that pumps brake fluid recursively, using a container where I can put the pump and take back what gets out, getting bubbles with it, so easing the task of pumping eternally to get bubbles out. This is my favourite. You can get fluid by the bleeding valve, well closing it with crazy amounts of teflon and using that plastic cone tool with the banjo connector in it to get the fluid back to the container, where will be again pumped by the bleeding valve. Not a lot of tools, not a lot of knowledge, a lot of bubbles getting a good apartheid out of the brake system... A cheap good pressure and good flow gasoline pump costs around 14€ in Aliexpress. I can put that in that container and with not so much problem I can find for 2 € the parts to adapt it to a banjo connector, also in AliExpress. With that, a couple valves and not that much I can control the pressure/flow and with some teflon I can close the bleeding valve so it doesn't leak. Or well I can buy the correct adaptor for putting there a good hose. This is my favourite and would allow to move the bike as it is flowing, easing a lot the bubble expelliarmus thing.

 

[leondante]

I'm, as I said previously, working on the brakes. I painted the calipers, the thing ended better as expected. Now I'm installing all the tubing, ABS modulators and so on. I just finished cleaning the proportional control valve (PCV). Was "funny" to open. It had some dirt inside and was a bit rusted outside, and ended as new and I'm happy with it.

I'm having issues with te SMC as the rubber main seal is stuck all the time and it gets pressed and needs hard hits against the table in order to get it out. Only with grease I got to be smooth enough that the spring gets it out. The brake fluid, for some reason, is not enough. The inner surface was not as smooth as it should, because long use, dirtyness, and other things, so (against the consideration of many for sure) I cleaned it with 500 grain sandpaper attatched to the end of a bambu 5 mm stick. As usual, I did it perpendicular to the piston displacement to avoid creating ways of exit for the brake fluid. At the end I just left grease outside the cylinder, but knowing that grease get it out told me that something is wrong with the rubber seal. The reason for doing the sandpaper thing to cylinders is to create microscopic channels where brake fluid stick enough for lubricating the seal against the wall. In spanish it has an specific name and is a common thing whenever fixing cylinders ("esmerilado de cilindros"), you even have an specific tool for doing it in different sizes for different cylinders. It's a very important thing, but I don't know the name in english for the process. By the moment none of the cylinders that received this treatment by myself failed even once, neither leaked ever. I'm waiting for my SMC to be filled and fully wet with brake fluid and check it out, maybe some use and harsh conditions get it to work properly. If I see it failing after some kms. I'm buying the whole thing and changing it.

You wouldn believe what took from my soul to clean the rear fender, both parts. Remember the goo all over the swingarm? Well, that was a child, and the real thing was inside the fender. I lost some neurons sniffing gasoline washing that thing out. But at the end it got amazing and is really nice the final result.

I'm doing the pedal brake master cylinder next and all the rear end tubing. I have some rubber hoses broken, so I'm in need of buying those parts. I wanted to make the hoses myself but the broken one has a steel block that it's hard to substitute so, as it's not a very expensive part, I think I'll buy it.

I'm showing also some pictures of the front fork used bushes. I'm waiting for buying the other ones too as I damaged one of them so I'm changin both.

The parts mountain is getting smaller and that's so refreshing. I hope to end it in winter, maybe. Money is an important part of the equation, as parts are not so cheap and take many days to arrive after buying them.

 

[leondante]

I'm dealing with the brake hoses thing right now, and I found that it will be cheaper to make the hoses using the AN standard for creating my own hoses. Sadly I have a money limit, so paying 50€ each broken hose is not an option, as I have many of them in very bad shape. But using that standard will be for sure safer than just leaving my hoses all cracked up and asking for bursting everywhere at any sooner time.

So I found this guide: https://anfittingguide.com

And this is a nice video I reccomend you to see:

Here the wikipedia article about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN_thread

What do you think about this? Do you have some experience with these kind of hoses and standard?

Do you think is a good idea? Why you think that way?

 

[CFL1300]

Greetings, you are a genius, keep going, keep going....
Sssssssssssssssssssssss....

 

[leondante]

Greetings, you are a genius, keep going, keep going....
Sssssssssssssssssssssss....

I really appreciate you comment. Usually people is strongly against different or risky solutions, or not-so-tested ones. I like risk, lucky me I've never had an issue with it, as I also use a lot of counter-measures against those risks I get as pets in my life.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

I'm dealing with the brake hoses thing right now, and I found that it will be cheaper to make the hoses using the AN standard for creating my own hoses. Sadly I have a money limit, so paying 50€ each broken hose is not an option, as I have many of them in very bad shape. But using that standard will be for sure safer than just leaving my hoses all cracked up and asking for bursting everywhere at any sooner time.

So I found this guide: https://anfittingguide.com

And this is a nice video I reccomend you to see:

Here the wikipedia article about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN_thread

What do you think about this? Do you have some experience with these kind of hoses and standard?

Do you think is a good idea? Why you think that way?

Good idea on your break hoses.
Who would have thought hose cost and availability would have become an issue, or $10+ per spark plug? Restorations in the past were relatively simple, and plenty of kids had botched up simple repairs so cheap parts bikes were easy to find.....back in the days when I got started rebuilding back in high school....back to showroom condition and not just to rideable condition. Time$ have certainly changed.
When I rebuilt my 'new' 1991, I got lucky with hoses. I replaced all of them...air, water, vacuum, fuel.... I took the shaped hoses to a local auto part store and they let me wander behind the counter to match up hoses having similar/close contours. Radiator hoses were still available from online sellers of Honda parts so the two at the radiator were no problem. Might be a good use of time to locate a parts shop what will permit you to 'fondle' their selection for acceptably formed in curves or an employee willing to do it for you. Wish I had recorded the source and part numbers of the ones I bought.
Be careful to use only submersible fuel hoses....I bought proper ID hoses from a local Honda car dealership, they were specifically for in-tank pumps....no problems with them at all. Some hoses that come with aftermarket fuel pumps leave a bit to be desired.
Our 1991 was the last bike I've restored, did it in stages with the last being three years back now. I recently added up the cost of all the parts I used. It totaled more than the bike cost new originally. Good thing my labor was 'free'.

 

[dduelin]

It’s hard to tell from the fork bushing pictures but I think for those of us following it’s important to point out which is the upper one (slider bushing) and which is the lower one (fork tube bushing). The upper one wears off the Teflon on the inner surface and the lower one wears on the outer surface. Honda doesn’t fully coat the non- wearing surface and a good bushing can be mistaken for worn because we are not looking at the wear surface.

 

[leondante]

It’s hard to tell from the fork bushing pictures but I think for those of us following it’s important to point out which is the upper one (slider bushing) and which is the lower one (fork tube bushing). The upper one wears off the Teflon on the inner surface and the lower one wears on the outer surface. Honda doesn’t fully coat the non- wearing surface and a good bushing can be mistaken for worn because we are not looking at the wear surface.

In my bike the lower one is taller than the upper one, almost double size. The one in both pictures is the lower one, which is coated outside. So, that flesh of fresh copper shouldn't be there at all. The upper ones, coated inside, I want to change them because I was dumb enough to put it inside before putting the inside plated thing that slides inside it, so I messed up all the teflon fighting for getting it out of there without damaging the inner part of the lower external thing of both main pieces. I. Am. A. Dumbdonkey. Those were a bit worn out but could be used long time more yet.