M77 Replaces Moly 60- Apparently So

[MidLife]

....and not only the Moly content, but the Moly solid content as well.....

Could you expand on what they mean with the difference between Moly content and Moly Solid content?

 

[Igofar]

I'll have to contact them in person to get a more detailed answer, but it sounded like the moly content (grease) and the moly solids could be measured separately.
I'll let post a response after I hear from them.
Igofar

 

[Upt' North]

Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding use of a molybdenum disulphide paste to lubricate the splines of
motor cycle drive shafts. The product we would recommend for this application is as you indicate MOLYSLIP AS40, TDS
attached for your consideration.
I hope this the above information meets your requirement, if I can be of any further assistance please do not
hesitate to contact me.
Best regards

Steve Watterson
Technical Service Manager
Molyslip Atlantic Limited

This is Molyslip's take on the drive shaft lube debate.
Hope it helps.
Upt'North.
I'll see if I can load the TDS also.
Upt'North.

 

[Upt' North]

Struggling to load the PDF at this stage. I think it's my tablet and will try from PC in the next couple of days, I never turn it on.
Also I have replied requesting Moly content which I don't think the Tech sheet covers.
Upt'North.

 

[Ltimb]

Interesting... So is a "Compound" a paste or grease?

http://www.molyslip.com/products/anti-seize-assembly-compounds/as40-anti-scruff-paste/

 

[Upt' North]

States it's a paste. Which I've read somewhere, don't know where, indicates 40% +. But I've asked the chap to respond on what Moly % is.
Hope it helps.
Upt'North.
Thanks for adding link, solids listed at 40%. That isn't stated on my TDS, but is it Moly solids?
Thanks again.

 

[Trapperdog]

Interesting they recommend th 40% when they make a 60 and 65%

 

[Upt' North]

I would say that is definitely clear enough, 40-45% Moly by weight. On the 40, 60 and 65 topic I haven't seen them in the UK. They could be but I haven't seen them and Molyslip answered a detailed e-mail, stating Honda's requirements for the said lube, it's location and function on the bike, probable loading and heat requirements etc.
Can we put it to bed?
Upt'North.

 

[dwalby]

Interesting they recommend th 40% when they make a 60 and 65%

The 40% is the regular expression, the 65% is cask strength, for those who like that kind of thing.

 

[Upt' North]

60 is available over here but more expensive, 40 is about £25.00 for 500g, or a lifetime supply I suppose.
Clearly states on tin it is 40%.
Upt'North.

 

[Soontobeone]

I read the TDS sheets for both the Molyslip AS/40 & AS/60. From the data sheets I would probably choose the AS/60, as it states clearly that one of its uses is on splines. Also, has anyone noticed that the shelf life for Molyslip is only 24 months?

 

[Igofar]

I'm starting to see that 24 month shelf life more and more, and am starting to think that most of the Honda stuff (Moly 60) has long expired and is starting to fail.
I pulled a wheel on a police motor that I replaced tires on a couple months ago, that only had around 500 miles on the new tires, and had used an un-opened tube of the Honda stuff on his splines. His splines were found wet and watery, and could be wiped completely off with a simple swipe of a red shop rag, leaving no trace (not good). The Honda stuff was at least a couple years old, even though it was sealed, I believe it has passed its expiration shelf life.
Probably gonna order some Loctite stuff soon.
Igofar

 

[Upt' North]

​

Worth a read, Upt'North.

AS60 Molyslip 16001 500g Tub Anti-Scuffing Paste

Stock Code: AS60

£35.00 Each
Quantity:

AS60

MOLYSLIP AS60 Anti-Scuff Paste is a gelled lubricating oil, containing 60% molybdenum disulphide, forming a soft paste. It also contains rust and corrosion inhibitors.PERFORMANCE AND USAGE:The load carrying capacity of MoS2 is in excess of 140,000 psi, above the yield point of most metals, and cold forming of metal under the MoS2 film can take place without "welding" or pick -up occurring. Thus, by applying AS60, wear or damage can be prevented, when a hydrodynamic oil film is not present as in new engine start up.EXTRA INFORMATION:

• Ensures bedding in without scuffing or scoring.
• Reduces wear and cuts costs.
• Protects against rust and corrosion.
• Withstands heavy loads.

Honda Moly60 this is a great replacement this product is searched for a lot for Honda Motorcycles


Anti-scuff, bedding-in paste, gelled lubricating oil with a high proportion of MoS2. AS60 (similar to GN paste) contains 60% of MoS2 Use for Airgun seal (sparingly) and Cylinder, Hammer rail & Bushes (when Burnished in) & Spring Guide lubrication.
Building up engines and Machines that require protection from Galling and scuffing on initial dry start-up then long life thereafter.
Also can be Burnished in on parts that cannot be greased due to dust contamination .

As well as pre treatment of shafts gears and pinions in gear boxes and drive trains prior to final assembly Good substitute for Honda 60 grease for use in final shaft drives and such in many motorcycles .
Also very good for boat's in both salt and fresh water greasing tillers, propellers , anchor chains etc.
Any applications that require a barrier between metal moving parts e.g. Telehandlers, Crane Booms , Diggers And Lorry 5th Wheels and such like. Email or larger quantity's .

 

[MidLife]

Interesting... So is a "Compound" a paste or grease?

http://www.molyslip.com/products/anti-seize-assembly-compounds/as40-anti-scruff-paste/

I'd vote for paste?

 

[jfheath]

A long while back I did some research into all of this and contacted a few companies, and posted what I found in another thread on this recurring topic. I still have some Moly 60 left and it is performing well, and after doing the research decided on my course of action when my Moly 60 runs out. I'd be going with the Rocol alternative. No point in buying it at the time, as these products all seem to have a shelf life.

The shelf life for the Molykote G-n Paste - prodcued by Dow Corning and recommended by Honda in the service manual is 60 months from the date of manufacture. (Source - The Dow Corning Molykote TDS Sheet dated 23 Sept 2013)

I contacted Rocol here in the UK about their ASP paste which is also recommended in the Honda manual. They said that they have replaced it with a new product - Dry Moly Paste which has the same 50% MoS2 content as the ASP, but is NGLI #3 - ie slightly thicker. I have some of this and there isn't a great deal of difference between that and the Honda Moly 60 in terms of 'stiffness'. The shelf life on the spec sheet indiucates that this too has a shelf life of 5 years. (Source - The Rocol Dry Moly Paste Data Sheet - Issue 1 01/11)

I posted this info on one of the many other discussions about M77 some time back.

[edit]
It is worth checking out two previous posts both of which contain a lot of useful and factual information about possible alternatives.
Moly Paste 77 and Where did the recommendation for Honda M-77 start

The latter of these contain the items to which I refer above (posts 17 and 33)
[/edit]


For those of us in the UK, Steve - who now owns and runs the well loved Bike-Quip company - has started to sell 100g pots of the Rocol Dry Moly Paste.

 

[Upt' North]

Heathy,
That 100gr tub is not cheap, I think Caviar would be better value but maybe not as good as a lube. Anybody know the moly content of fish eggs!
Although if it has a genuine 60 month shelf life that could be OK, trying to visualise 100gr of paste is taxing my brain cells way too much for a weekend morning, in short how many applications do you think the Rocol would manage. I'm guessing way more than one ST would require over 5 years.
I think I sensed a little desperation in your post John, like this subject has been discussed way too much, although as it's a lube thread you know it will never go away, right?
Thanks.
Upt'North.

 

[caldercay]

I'm not in UK, so I'll go for the stuff that's available in my backyard.

Did anyone mention this is akin to an oil thread?

Honda Moly60 is gone - get over it.

Find a respectable 50/60/70 paste and be done with it. Change it often. Go ride.

 

[jfheath]

Heathy,
That 100gr tub is not cheap, I think Caviar would be better value but maybe not as good as a lube. Anybody know the moly content of fish eggs!
Although if it has a genuine 60 month shelf life that could be OK, trying to visualise 100gr of paste is taxing my brain cells way too much for a weekend morning, in short how many applications do you think the Rocol would manage. I'm guessing way more than one ST would require over 5 years.
I think I sensed a little desperation in your post John, like this subject has been discussed way too much, although as it's a lube thread you know it will never go away, right?
Thanks.
Upt'North.

No not cheap, but cheaper than you will get it elsewhere. Check out Amazon and Ebay.

100g is more than you get in a tube of Honda Moly 60 - which states it contains 3oz. (84g if it is a UK oz), a tad more if it is a USA oz).
The workshop manual says to apply 3g to the splines - so 33 applications from 100g. Even for me at 5,000 miles per tyre change, that is 165,000 miles.

Not desperation - just reminding people that this is not a fresh discussion and there is some good information in other posts as well. As I looked back to find my own record of correspondence with Rocol, Dow Corning and Honda UK, I also found stuff that others had posted. The discussion and knowledge base has progressed.

The shelf life is a worrying issue, as is whether or not the paste has been 'stirred up' properly before use. It might suggest that failure can not necessarily be due to a particular product, but may be due to old stock. Shelf life is often quoted as the date since manufacture - not the date since opening.


I have here some possible alternatives for rear splines - All gleaned from contributions on ST-Owners with links to their post, links to the Technical Data Sheets and my summary of the MoS2 %ge and the NLGI rating where I could find it.

Note that these are not recommendations - simply what others have mentioned across 3 different forum threads.

Who	Product	MoS2	NLGI	Pressure	TDS	Forum Link
BonScott77	MolySlip AS60	60%	2	>140,000psi	PDF	Post 38	See also Upt'North Post #133
dsquire	TS-Moly	70%	2	Extreme	weblink	Post 40
Don B	Loctite LB 8012​	65%	1	High Static Loads	PDF Link	Post 46	See Uncle Phil Post 22
st1300r	BelRay 99030 Assembly Lube	40%	?	Follow the links	PDF Link	Posts 42-50
bdalameda	High Temperature Ep Grease	WS2	0,1,2		PDF Link	Post 44	Tungsten, not Molybdenum. Little to compare specs. NLGI 0 and 1 may be too thin.
dwalby	PolySi PST-77	>60%	?	Low - Moderate	TDS PDF SDS PDF	Post 73	TDS says this product is comparable to Dow Corning Molykote M77
jfheath	Rocol Dry Moly Paste	50%	3	High Loads	TDS pdf	Posts 8,12	Originally called Rocol ASP and recommended in Honda service manual
jfheath	Motul Tech Grease 300	0%	2	Extreme Loads	TDS	Post 33	This in response to an email sent to Honda UK. It is what they recommend for their centres. Spec sheet shows no MoS2 or mention of use on splines. Hmm. edit - Motul data sheets are here https://www.motul.com/es/en/products/tech-grease-300
portupan	Dow Corning Molykote G-n Assembly Paste	20%	?	Extreme Pressure	TDS pdf	Post 89	Recommended in Honda Service Manual. I can no longer find this product on the new Dow Website, although many other companies still stock it. The SDS gives a figure of 15-20% MoS2 ! Surely not ?

nb TDS = Technical Data Sheet for the product.
SDS=Safety Data Sheet (or Medical SDS). It sometime contains useful info not on the TDS

 

[Upt' North]

Thanks John. Nice and clear re quantity.
Upt'North.

 

[dwalby]

To clarify for those who haven't been following the thread, PolySi PST-77 is the new Honda M77.