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Article [13] ST1300 - Brake Maintenance - Avoiding the Pitfalls
- Thread starter jfheath
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JimS
Today is a Good Day to Ride
I'm going over my handywork from replacing the rear pads a few years ago, and reviewing this article(and replies) once again. I want to make sure I'm lubin' and gluin' correctly and with the right stuff.
Here's the things I noted to take care of:
Back of pads- copper grease
Metal retainer clip - TB 1521 adhesive, then copper grease on top
Slider pins - rubber grease
Pin Hanger(Pad Pin?) - Copper grease
I couldn't find copper grease before, so I used a hi-temp synthetic caliper grease. That didn't seem to work out so well as I noted here:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/proper-grease-on-the-rear-caliper-slider-pins.184384/
Folks seem to like Sil-Glyde, so I'm thinking of using that to replace both the copper and rubber grease mentioned.
Cleaning pistons: Using brake fluid and cloth, but one of the replies mentions using grease on them. I think Igofar said not to do this but don't remember for sure.
I pulled out the metal retainer clip and cleaned it, but can't easily find this ThreeBond 1521 adhesive locally. Is this the common practice? I want to do things right, but not looking forward to waiting another week or more before I can finish this job up.
Thanks for the help and advice.
Here's the things I noted to take care of:
Back of pads- copper grease
Metal retainer clip - TB 1521 adhesive, then copper grease on top
Slider pins - rubber grease
Pin Hanger(Pad Pin?) - Copper grease
I couldn't find copper grease before, so I used a hi-temp synthetic caliper grease. That didn't seem to work out so well as I noted here:
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/proper-grease-on-the-rear-caliper-slider-pins.184384/
Folks seem to like Sil-Glyde, so I'm thinking of using that to replace both the copper and rubber grease mentioned.
Cleaning pistons: Using brake fluid and cloth, but one of the replies mentions using grease on them. I think Igofar said not to do this but don't remember for sure.
I pulled out the metal retainer clip and cleaned it, but can't easily find this ThreeBond 1521 adhesive locally. Is this the common practice? I want to do things right, but not looking forward to waiting another week or more before I can finish this job up.
Thanks for the help and advice.
OP
OP
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2006
- Messages
- 2,994
- Age
- 70
- Location
- Ilkley, W Yorkshire, UK
- Bike
- 2013 ST1300 A9
- 2024 Miles
- 000679
I don't use Copper grease any more. I use Ceratec. Copper grease is fine - but there were suggestions - from someone I know who tests brakes for a living - that the copper in the grease may cause galvanic corrosion - ie the copper in the grease reacts with the different metals that it is in contact with which causes some oxidation to occur.
I have to say that I've never experienced this. (Nor have I seen it when using copper banjo bolt washers). But the Ceratec grease is specially formulated for use on backing plates. Curiously, the Honda manual does not specify anything to use, and neither of my brand new ST1300s have had any grease applied to the brake pads.
Never use grease to clean the pistons. Mineral or petroleum based greases swell the rubber seals, rendering them pretty useless for sealing anything. Silicone greases are usually Ok in these situations - but you have to have something that isn't going to melt and get onto the disc surface.
When the pistons are extended, then I will smear the exposed part with rubber grease to protect them from the salty crud on our roads. This is kind to the seals (not that it is going to get near to them), it doesn't attract crud, but any that gets on it sticks. Neverthless it is captured in a soft grease and it cleans off very easily leaving the piston surface shiny. Its not as if the pistons are going to be pushed back into the seals at any time in that state. The only times I have never not applied rubber grease to the pistons, the expose surface of the is covered in a thin layer of much that has dried and set like concrete. This is much more difficult to remove and doesn't always leave a shiny surface underneath it. Maybe that is a UK thing.
Back of pads - copper grease/ Ceratec / Maybe Moly paste. These are subject to high heat and high pressure so generally a silicone based product is not as suitable - although Honda recommended the Silicone based M77 Moly grease as a suitable alternative to the M60 paste for a couple of their cars for the back of brake pads.
Metal retainer clip - TB 1521 adhesive, then a smear of copper grease or moly paste for the bronzed backing plate of the pads to slide smoothly.
Slider pins - rubber grease / Silicone grease - they fit inside rubber boots, so something that isn't going to dmage the rubber. ie not mineral oil based or petroleum.
Pin Hanger(Pad Pin?) - Copper grease / moly paste / ceratec. Not sure about rubber grease here. Purpose is to enable pads to move and to keep it from becoming corroded.
Threebond 1521 is:
https://threebond-europe.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/1500_series_large.jpg
TB1521C is a multi-purpose, high strength, chloroprene rubber adhesive. It is suitable for bonding a wide range of substrates including metals, rubbers and plastics, gives high initial bond strength and elasticity after setting. TB1521C is widely used in the automotive and allied industries where its viscosity makes it ideal for bonding weatherstrip rubber.
Also has an operating temperature of between -40 and +100 deg C
Having thought about what this is for, I decided that it was intended to provide a flexible layer between the clip and the bracket, to stop it vibrating and grinding itself a bigger slot in which to reside. Here is mine of my first 1300 which has done just that. Note the cap above the clip. Note the position of the tab in relation to that recatngular shaped raised part of the casting. These brakes were working fine no symptoms presenting themselves - but it may not have take too long after this.
That being the case, I decided that any strong, flexible adhesive for metal that could cope with heat up to 100 deg C would be OK.
I went on a hunt and found UHU Max Extreme Repair. I've attached the pdf of the spec. It seems to call itslef Max Repair Power now. Check on Amazon, see if it is available in USA.
Nb - this is the glue that I have substituted. I reckon it is better than the nothing that was on there originally. But I may have made a wrong assumption about why it is specified ! It didn't take me very long to find a glue that seemed todo the same job. Strong, Flexible, Temp up to 100 deg as per 3bond, adhesive for metal.
But both of my bikes were supplied brand new without anything sticking the clip in place.
I have to say that I've never experienced this. (Nor have I seen it when using copper banjo bolt washers). But the Ceratec grease is specially formulated for use on backing plates. Curiously, the Honda manual does not specify anything to use, and neither of my brand new ST1300s have had any grease applied to the brake pads.
Never use grease to clean the pistons. Mineral or petroleum based greases swell the rubber seals, rendering them pretty useless for sealing anything. Silicone greases are usually Ok in these situations - but you have to have something that isn't going to melt and get onto the disc surface.
When the pistons are extended, then I will smear the exposed part with rubber grease to protect them from the salty crud on our roads. This is kind to the seals (not that it is going to get near to them), it doesn't attract crud, but any that gets on it sticks. Neverthless it is captured in a soft grease and it cleans off very easily leaving the piston surface shiny. Its not as if the pistons are going to be pushed back into the seals at any time in that state. The only times I have never not applied rubber grease to the pistons, the expose surface of the is covered in a thin layer of much that has dried and set like concrete. This is much more difficult to remove and doesn't always leave a shiny surface underneath it. Maybe that is a UK thing.
Back of pads - copper grease/ Ceratec / Maybe Moly paste. These are subject to high heat and high pressure so generally a silicone based product is not as suitable - although Honda recommended the Silicone based M77 Moly grease as a suitable alternative to the M60 paste for a couple of their cars for the back of brake pads.
Metal retainer clip - TB 1521 adhesive, then a smear of copper grease or moly paste for the bronzed backing plate of the pads to slide smoothly.
Slider pins - rubber grease / Silicone grease - they fit inside rubber boots, so something that isn't going to dmage the rubber. ie not mineral oil based or petroleum.
Pin Hanger(Pad Pin?) - Copper grease / moly paste / ceratec. Not sure about rubber grease here. Purpose is to enable pads to move and to keep it from becoming corroded.
Threebond 1521 is:
https://threebond-europe.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/1500_series_large.jpg
TB1521C is a multi-purpose, high strength, chloroprene rubber adhesive. It is suitable for bonding a wide range of substrates including metals, rubbers and plastics, gives high initial bond strength and elasticity after setting. TB1521C is widely used in the automotive and allied industries where its viscosity makes it ideal for bonding weatherstrip rubber.
Also has an operating temperature of between -40 and +100 deg C
Having thought about what this is for, I decided that it was intended to provide a flexible layer between the clip and the bracket, to stop it vibrating and grinding itself a bigger slot in which to reside. Here is mine of my first 1300 which has done just that. Note the cap above the clip. Note the position of the tab in relation to that recatngular shaped raised part of the casting. These brakes were working fine no symptoms presenting themselves - but it may not have take too long after this.
That being the case, I decided that any strong, flexible adhesive for metal that could cope with heat up to 100 deg C would be OK.
I went on a hunt and found UHU Max Extreme Repair. I've attached the pdf of the spec. It seems to call itslef Max Repair Power now. Check on Amazon, see if it is available in USA.
Nb - this is the glue that I have substituted. I reckon it is better than the nothing that was on there originally. But I may have made a wrong assumption about why it is specified ! It didn't take me very long to find a glue that seemed todo the same job. Strong, Flexible, Temp up to 100 deg as per 3bond, adhesive for metal.
But both of my bikes were supplied brand new without anything sticking the clip in place.
Last edited:
JimS
Today is a Good Day to Ride
No, I'm only using the brake fluid with a 'watusi' rag(the back drying thing) on the pistons. Only mention the grease 'cuz you talked about it in an earlier post. Igofar educated me how maintenance in the UK(with the moisture, rain, etc) may not apply in the dry climate I live in(rust? what's that?).
The retaining clip kind of fell out as I pulled the caliper apart. Didn't really think anything of it till I read about the adhesive and Larry saying that shouldn't happen.
I'm going to poke around inside the slider pin sockets(?) with a q-tip just to see how much gunk is in there. The caliper did not pull apart that easy, even though the slider pins were dry.
Thanks for clarifying all that.
Between you and Igofar I have a better idea what to look at/for in the caliper.
Cheers!
The retaining clip kind of fell out as I pulled the caliper apart. Didn't really think anything of it till I read about the adhesive and Larry saying that shouldn't happen.
I'm going to poke around inside the slider pin sockets(?) with a q-tip just to see how much gunk is in there. The caliper did not pull apart that easy, even though the slider pins were dry.
Thanks for clarifying all that.
Between you and Igofar I have a better idea what to look at/for in the caliper.
Cheers!
Last edited:
Hey as long as they stop the bike!!
Scary stuff... wonder how long it'd take the steel pad backing plate to wear through that soft alu bracket...
Re glue: It would probably also help stop corrosion from forming between the alu bracket and stainless clip. Here in sunny Wales, I found my rear pads were sticking as corrosion had pushed the clip out, squeezing the pads backwards against the pin, preventing them from retracting easily... Cleaning that out and glueing the clip back (thanks for finding/mentioning the adhesive John!) seems to have solved that...
Re glue: It would probably also help stop corrosion from forming between the alu bracket and stainless clip. Here in sunny Wales, I found my rear pads were sticking as corrosion had pushed the clip out, squeezing the pads backwards against the pin, preventing them from retracting easily... Cleaning that out and glueing the clip back (thanks for finding/mentioning the adhesive John!) seems to have solved that...
OP
OP
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2006
- Messages
- 2,994
- Age
- 70
- Location
- Ilkley, W Yorkshire, UK
- Bike
- 2013 ST1300 A9
- 2024 Miles
- 000679
I believe that it is the kind of adhesive that it the key - ie a flexible rubber, or flexible polymer that keeps the clip in place but also adds a cushion to prevent small movements of the clip from grinding the bracket away.
Actually - the discovery of the glue in the manual is relatively recent (I know it was a modification that I added to the Avoid the Pitfalls article when I found out about it). It always seemed odd to me that a 'loose' piece of metal should be placed against soft alloy. I used to rub moly paste into the bracket part before I found out about the glue - taking care not to leave any surplus moly, it is very close the the brake disk surface. I reckoned if it was good enough for pad backing plates .....
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Indeed, anything too rigid will just break and be no help anyway.
Before I had the caliper and bracket apart, I had assumed that the clip (or rather, its' 'seat') would be very worn... finding a replacement bracket in the UK is 'tricky' at the moment, so I had concerns I'd be repairing it by brazing the clip to the bracket at filling the worn gap. Fortunately there appeared to be no wear, and the Uhu glue mentioned was perfectly sufficient
Before I had the caliper and bracket apart, I had assumed that the clip (or rather, its' 'seat') would be very worn... finding a replacement bracket in the UK is 'tricky' at the moment, so I had concerns I'd be repairing it by brazing the clip to the bracket at filling the worn gap. Fortunately there appeared to be no wear, and the Uhu glue mentioned was perfectly sufficient