Rear brake issue

[Tdinova]

@Mellow Joe, is there not some kind of disclaimer for the site explaining that this site is for sharing knowledge and in no way a definitive guide to motorcycle maintenance? Just questioning whether a claim against the advice provided by the good folks of this site would have any legal standing in court.
Just curious…

Use this site like Facebook..

Beware of comments.. I always get more than 1 persons input.. if you know nothing about wrenching then.. double beware

 

[HOS]

I just got all my parts. I will be working on the brakes this Sunday.

 

[Igofar]

I’ll be available

 

[HOS]

So was delayed by other projects. Tonight got the rear pads installed to caliber and caliper mounted to brake bracket. Did not install bracket Stopper Bolt or axle yet. Wanted to touch base because I recall the sequence and torque of stopper bolt was to be done prior to the axle replacement. I am not sure why the Stopper bolt is a slot not a hole in the bracket indicating it can move or needs to be adjusted a little bit before the axle is put in place and torqued down. You had mentioned that the "axle will self center" but the bracket has to be in position before it is torqued or the angle of the caliper would not be correct (I think that was issue). Anyway, What should be my next step.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

So was delayed by other projects. Tonight got the rear pads installed to caliber and caliper mounted to brake bracket. Did not install bracket Stopper Bolt or axle yet. Wanted to touch base because I recall the sequence and torque of stopper bolt was to be done prior to the axle replacement. I am not sure why the Stopper bolt is a slot not a hole in the bracket indicating it can move or needs to be adjusted a little bit before the axle is put in place and torqued down. You had mentioned that the "axle will self center" but the bracket has to be in position before it is torqued or the angle of the caliper would not be correct (I think that was issue). Anyway, What should be my next step.

https://www.st-owners.com/forums/pages/RAN_US/

Under AZ, call Larry.

 

[Igofar]

So was delayed by other projects. Tonight got the rear pads installed to caliber and caliper mounted to brake bracket. Did not install bracket Stopper Bolt or axle yet. Wanted to touch base because I recall the sequence and torque of stopper bolt was to be done prior to the axle replacement. I am not sure why the Stopper bolt is a slot not a hole in the bracket indicating it can move or needs to be adjusted a little bit before the axle is put in place and torqued down. You had mentioned that the "axle will self center" but the bracket has to be in position before it is torqued or the angle of the caliper would not be correct (I think that was issue). Anyway, What should be my next step.

I was wondering where you went, have not heard back from you.
I should be around the phone most of the day tomorrow if you'd like to call me, I'll explain it to you.....again....

 

[HOS]

Got all the pads installed and the rear and front calibers. left the SMC side loose in prep for bleeding. I have two documents from the Forum(30 pager) and a more recent 10 page as well as the Honda manual. Reviewing before starting the bleeding process. Need to lift tank to expose PCV. Also, I followed these documents the first two times and used a vacuum but will use the old school approach - "pumping the pedal" this time with a one-way bleed value in the line to prevent back flow as we discussed. Got to buy DOT-4 before I start. There is going to be a lot of air in the system. Is it important to use Honda brand brake fluid? I know for certain things the Honda products are important.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Is it important to use Honda brand brake fluid?

No, as long as it meets the specifications that Honda stipulates.
For brake fluid I always recommend sticking with well known long-standing brands. Sometimes the cheapest no-name bottle on the shelf isn't always the best choice.

 

[HOS]

I was wondering where you went, have not heard back from you.
I should be around the phone most of the day tomorrow if you'd like to call me, I'll explain it to you.....again....

Could you repeat how you access the PCV. I think I recall that you suggest lifting the gas tank, I assume like you were going to replace the air filter using the little prop stick, then remove some of the Screws/Fastners on the right side so you can flex the fairing back enough to get a wrench on the bleed nipple of the PCV. Do you need to hand pump the front hand brake, rear peddle brake, and then the SMC to get all the air out of the circuit?

 

[MidLife]

Could you repeat how you access the PCV?

Never done it myself, but a mechanic did a quick PCV bleed on mine once without lifting the tank. So it looks like it is possible.

Maybe some help here?

PCV Bleed | ST1300-Brakes

Somewhere I read on here where you could pull back the right side cowling without taking it off to bleed the PVC. Unfortunately I can't seem to find it. Or is there a detailed update of someone having done this? Preferably with instructions, maybe pics?

www.st-owners.com

May also be easier for you if you know where and what to look for. You can see the PCV bleed on this vid.

On the other hand,....the fairing is not too difficult to remove (keep the fasteners for each part in a plastic bag taped to the part).

Also good to do from time to time for inspecting.

The good part is that if you are pressed for time putting the plastic back on, the ST will ride well without it. You can put the turn signals back on without the cowling installed and ride it.

 

[dduelin]

The myriad of service manuals, technical drawings, service bulletins, assembly instructions, etc., etc., etc., in existence would seem to support your belief.

However, to play Devil's advocate in Larry's defense, there can be serious consequences when these instructions find their way in to the hands of people who have no mechanical experience, no mechanical knowledge, no mechanical aptitude, but believe that they can perform a procedure because they can read. Most manuals are intended for the people who will maintain a product, not the general public. There is the expectation that the user does have mechanical knowledge, experience and proficiency. They are not written to hold your hand with basic principles that they expect that you should already know. They expect a certain level of competency. When there isn't that basic minimum knowledge and competency things can go wrong. I suspect Larry is concerned about his instructions being in the hands of such people.

Regardless of that I don't believe that less information is better. Everyone can not be held by the hand. Put the information out there, written as well as we can write it, to the benefit of as many as possible is always a better option.

I am certain this forum has someone really good at technical writing or editing that could help Larry create excellent DIY articles or documents if the lack of written communication skills is the problem.

Doing this would invite some comments or suggestions that might improve the quality or accuracy of the product. That’s a win if the goal is helping the most people.

 

[Sadlsor]

I don’t think I’ve seen this video before. But when someone is working on a bike - any bike - and uses the words “driver’s side” and “passenger side”, it always throws me off.

Then it annoys me.

How about, “facing forward, on the right side…” or even “right side” or “left side”? Most people, I believe, will naturally think you’re talking about from the rider position.

Yes I’m a stickler, but dammit words mean things. And the whole world doesn’t drive on the right side of the road.

In any case, I remove the right side fairing, because I have big hands and don’t wanna risk breaking the plastic. I’ll take a minute or a few, for easier access and not risk dripping brake fluid on the plastic.

 

[HOS]

I was wondering where you went, have not heard back from you.
I should be around the phone most of the day tomorrow if you'd like to call me, I'll explain it to you.....again....

Hey Larry, Success , Bled system yesterday using the Hunt Document and old school pumping vs a vacuum pump as you recommended and it worked great, The new SMC did the trick. Thanks again for all your help with this project. I am ready to learn more about the tuning process you mentioned that improves both MPG and performance!

 

[jfheath]

edit.....Just realised that I'm answering a post from a month ago. Never mind I'll leave it here anyway.

Could you repeat how you access the PCV. I think I recall that you suggest lifting the gas tank, I assume like you were going to replace the air filter using the little prop stick, then remove some of the Screws/Fastners on the right side so you can flex the fairing back enough to get a wrench on the bleed nipple of the PCV. Do you need to hand pump the front hand brake, rear peddle brake, and then the SMC to get all the air out of the circuit?

The proportional control valve or the nearby bleed valve has nothing to do with the front brake lever brake lines.

There is a recommended sequence to follow. Steps 1 and 2 involve getting the front brake outer pistons sorted.
After that, steps 3 to 7 bleed the rear brake lines. If the front lever is bled properly and firm, you don't need to do steps 1 and 2 again. Steps 3 to 7 for the SMC, PCV and rear brake pistons will likely need to be repeated a few times.

Loads of info and diagrams here. Download the pdf.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Brake Maintenance - Getting all the air out of the brake system | ST1300 Articles

A detailed look at the process of getting the air out of the Honda ST1300 brake lines. A sequence of diagrams of the brake circuits, colour coded to show which parts of the system are being accessed when each bleed valve is opened and explanations of where the trouble spots are. These are just...

www.st-owners.com

Note that you do not need to use a vacuum bleeder. I hate using it, but If my lines are completely empty I will use it to fill it up intil I get most of the air out.

 

[HOS]

edit.....Just realised that I'm answering a post from a month ago. Never mind I'll leave it here anyway.


The proportional control valve or the nearby bleed valve has nothing to do with the front brake lever brake lines.

There is a recommended sequence to follow. Steps 1 and 2 involve getting the front brake outer pistons sorted.
After that, steps 3 to 7 bleed the rear brake lines. If the front lever is bled properly and firm, you don't need to do steps 1 and 2 again. Steps 3 to 7 for the SMC, PCV and rear brake pistons will likely need to be repeated a few times.

Loads of info and diagrams here. Download the pdf.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Brake Maintenance - Getting all the air out of the brake system | ST1300 Articles

A detailed look at the process of getting the air out of the Honda ST1300 brake lines. A sequence of diagrams of the brake circuits, colour coded to show which parts of the system are being accessed when each bleed valve is opened and explanations of where the trouble spots are. These are just...

www.st-owners.com

Note that you do not need to use a vacuum bleeder. I hate using it, but If my lines are completely empty I will use it to fill it up intil I get most of the air out.

You are correct, I mis spoke regarding the front brake lever. I did follow the sequence in the Hunt document. I found it very easy to bleed the PCV without removing the complete fairing. I did lift the gas tank but probably didn't have to. It made it easy to see what I was doing. The brakes continue to function very well so I think I got pretty much all the air out of the system. So the root cause of my issue seemed to be the SMC and using manual "pumping" vs a vacuum bleed system made the bleeding process very efficient and effective.