Well, that was a bit too exciting (battery failure)

St-Gerard said:
One note on chargers ,Agm batteries don't like the disulfating mod.
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Not exactly correct. They do require a special desulfating mode. Practical sailor has always published well thought out and researched articles:

www.practical-sailor.com

Fighting Sulfation in AGMs - Practical Sailor

Since 1974, Practical Sailor’s independent testing has taken the guesswork out of boat and gear buying.
www.practical-sailor.com www.practical-sailor.com
 
Have read they don't like the reverse pulse some battery tenders have to desulfate, have no proof. Fully charging a battery is the best thing for them. Good write up Practical sailor,G
 
Twice now on two different bikes (a '75 Goldwing and a '99 Triumph Trophy 900) I've had the regulator go wonky. In both cases the regulator started charging over 15.5V, up to 16V. Partly because of that I somewhat regularly check to see if things are normal (after the bike has been sitting to check for parasitic losses/age, after a ride, when idling, and with some RPM). I would say at least 3-4 times a season.

For what it's worth, I replaced the regulator on the Trophy with an RMStator branded regulator which uses an integrated circuit which is much faster and more accurate. I was very happy with the results (a very tightly controlled charge voltage from idle through high RPM). I have not yet diagnosed the GL1000 because I have too much to do and I only noticed a month or so ago.

On my ST1300 I have a USB charger/Volt Meter that I religiously pay attention to. They are cheap and the voltage fluctuates a great deal on the display (13.2 13.6 13.1 13.9 every 0.2 seconds or whatever) but it tells me roughly where things are.

Generally speaking, all of my bikes are always plugged into a long-term safe maintainer. I prefer BatteryMinder (built like a flippin' tank) but I also have two different MotoBatt-branded chargers (these are... not robustly built. I can't recommend them.) See below for more details.

@St-Gerard said:
One note on chargers ,Agm batteries don't like the disulfating mod.
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I think I'd like you to back that up with some evidence. While I'm not sure that desulfating makes a difference one way or the other, almost all modern battery chargers desulfate and battery manufacturers that I've spoken to (such as MotoBatt) recommend a desulfating charger. My old BatteryMinder model 2012 (which isn't even made "special" for AGM batteries) desulfates and using that I regularly see my batteries last 2-3 times as long as my friends' batteries. Hardly compelling evidence, I know, but flat-out stating that AGM batteries don't like desulfating chargers is a bold claim that I think warrants some sort of evidence.


For what it's worth, I have (3) chargers/maintainers that I use on a regular basis. Two are MotoBatt branded and one is BatteryMinder branded.

Observe the variation in resting/float voltages used by each of the 3 chargers (and two of the chargers support different modes). I personally prefer higher voltages for AGM. I have no standard batteries except those in autos, and even then I have no problem with 14.4V.

ChargerModeVoltage
Battery Minder 2012 (non-AGM version)n/a13.4
MotoBatt MBRC1 (1.5A, wall-wart)12v Standard14.2
MotoBatt MBRC1 (1.5A, wall-wart)12v AGM/Winter14.4
MotoBatt MBRC35 (3.5A)12v Standard13.2
MotoBatt MBRC35 (3.5A)12v AGM/Winter13.6
 
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Oh, extra fancy (read: expensive) chargers/maintainers, typically found in Marine applications (because if you can afford a fancy boat you can afford a fancy charger) sometimes come with the gold standard for long-term storage which is to periodically (period measured in single-digit days) put a load on the battery to partially discharge it and then charge it variable rates. For flooded batteries, this cycles the electrolyte. For AGM batteries, the claim is that it can help with sulfatation and redeposition. Supposedly, sitting partly discharged is the worst for batteries but sitting at full charge isn't optimal (although it's still much better than partly discharged). Cycling the battery slightly is superior.

But these motorcycles are our most precious! They deserve only the very best! Some fun reading (I am not claiming I agree with the author of this article on all things, but it's fun anyway): https://marinehowto.com/choose-your-portable-maintenance-chargers-carefully/

Personally, I'm of the "pretty much anything with work so long as it's above 13.1 Volts and below 14.5" camp and don't get too wound around the axle. I just enjoy the learning side of things. I wouldn't recommed the MotoBatter chargers (they will not withstand multiple garage drops) vs. the BatteryMinder ones which are built like tanks generally.
 
NobodySpecial said:
I wouldn't recommed the MotoBatter chargers (they will not withstand multiple garage drops) vs. the BatteryMinder ones which are built like tanks generally.
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Haha, yes! I dropped my little Oxford Oximiser on my garage floor whilst it was plugged in. It was too light to stay put! The power plug broke its socket, and the thing went bang and produced magic smoke. My much, much older Tecmate Optimate II is built like a tank and has been clattered around a lot. I modified it last year with an XT60 panel socket so that I can swap between short and long charging leads.

For what it's worth, I was going to buy a Yuasa battery from Tayna, but opted to try the somewhat cheaper but ostensibly equally powerful Nitro battery from Wemoto, since I needed some other bits and pieces too. Nitro seems to get a decent write-up, while Tayna's website suggested almost everyone was buying the under-specc'd Motobatt battery for the 1300! I'll splurge next time if need be.
 
Males me wonder how effective my Battery Tender chargers really are.
Can't say I've used them a whole lot since I ride often... but I've had several over the years (many years).
I don't think i can use it on the BMW with its CANBUS, just not sure. But I've only had it 11 months, and i ride it quite a bit. It doesn't just sit around much.
 
I have two Battery tenders, they seem to work well. On my vehicles that are parked more than driven I put the chargers on once a month and top them up or before I start them. I will see If I can find the article about the reverse spike mode and Agm batteries not liking it.
 
I will see If I can find the article about the reverse spike mode and Agm batteries not liking it.
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Not all (perhaps not even most) "desulfation" approaches use "high voltage" pulses. My best guess is that the circuit is using PWM (pulse-width modulation) to turn on/off a MOSFET producing more or less a square wave to charge things. That's entirely reasonable.

Update: to be honest, I think there is as much marketing BS as there is something "real" here. MOST chargers probably already used PWM and then latched on to it as "well, technically, it does pulse things and since nobody can prove it doesn't work..... marketing!"

Personally, I 100% would not make any purchasing decision based on the presence or absence of such language.

Update to my update: and now I want to hook up an oscilloscope to see what various chargers are really doing.
 
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Haven't found that article , but did go to Interstate Battery's site ,forgive for not knowing how to link it to the forum . long story short they recommend using a charger that has Agm compatibility. I may be wrong about the reverse spike mode and Agm batteries , I did wreck one of my Agm batteries by using the wrong charger.
 
Battery science is not an unknown, but sifting the wheat from the chaff for most of us is more work than it is worth. And when buying a charger that will deliver constant current to a certain point in charging and then constant voltage proves to be fairly expensive many just pop for a cheap (and available) Battery Tender or equivalent.

My Craftsman lawn tractor uses a lead acid battery for starting. Two successive batteries* have lasted 11 years each (second is still going strong). After most mowings, I connect a touted 'state of the art' charger that I bought before the tractor to the battery. This charger (the company is long since gone) was advertised that it would charge lead acid batteries in several stages, including a float and equalization modes. IIRC, this thing cost me around $300-350 more than 20 years ago. I have NEVER approached 11 years in any other lead acid battery in my cars or bikes, despite using Battery Tenders and an Accumate charger. Coincidence or maybe Power Tech (that charger brand) got it right.

*both off the shelf unfamiliar brand flooded lead acid from a local battery vendor. I always write the installation date on the side of my batteries.
 
I wonder how many CANBUS owners here connect a generic battery charger direct to their battery? (GoldWing, newer Harley, and oh yeah... BMW.)
Or do they buy a high-zoot "Optimate" or similar charger?
 
Funny thing I never put a charger on my dodge van ,which gets driven maybe three times a month. Battery is coming up to twelve years old in December, have a spare incase it dies , longest I have had one last.
 
Not brilliantly well if I'm honest. The new Nitro battery definitely has more oomph to it than the Motobatt, but the ABS warning light is still flashing, and now I also have intermittent power loss to the headlights. Maybe that was already happening but I hadn't ridden in the dark until just a couple of days ago.

Have checked all the fuses and they are fine, although why the Haynes manual calls them A, B, C, D, etc. while the fuse box lids give verbose descriptions, is beyond me. I'll check the main earth connections next.
 
It sounds like a ground (earth) problem.

Several old posts on the forum cover this.

ST1300 - Only one Ground Point ? | ST1300 Related

I'm just starting to investigate what I think may be the start of a ground issue. I am aware of only one ground point on the ST1300 - the one that is on the cross member underneath the fuel tank. Has anyone come across any others in their random probings of the ST1300 ? I'm aware that the...
www.st-owners.com www.st-owners.com

Fixed my electrical problem (headlights, dash lites,horn, turn signals, windshield) | ST1300 Related

60 miles from home yesterday the ground circuit problem happened again. The bike quit at a stop sign and from then on basically nothing electrical in the front half of the bike worked and the bike would not start with high beams on. The engine would start and run with the headlight dip switch on...
www.st-owners.com www.st-owners.com
 
did you ever check the alternator voltage to the battery after putting the new battery in?

Would be good to know you're not overcharging the new battery to at least cross that one off the list.
 
dwalby said:
did you ever check the alternator voltage to the battery after putting the new battery in? Would be good to know you're not overcharging the new battery to at least cross that one off the list.
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That was the next step, and unfortunately I'm getting over 19.5V at 5000 rpm with high beam switched on. :(
 
That is way way too high and will kill the battery and possibly ECU.

You almost certainly need a new or refurbished alternator.
 
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