Visibility, Are You Being Seen?

My whole point was not that the rider thinks he become 'invincible' (so please don't assume my intent ;)) but that if drivers are not paying attention, it doesn't matter what you are wearing, how many lights you have on, or how loud your pipes are. High viz, lots of lights, etc. - and I have them - are all good but if we as riders are depending on that for a driver to see us, sooner or later they are going to get nailed. At the end of the day, it is up to us to protect ourselves because the answer will always be 'Officer, I just didn't see them' or as my friends across the pond say 'SMIDSY'. :biggrin: And practice is good but in 600,000+ miles of road experience, the things that get you are the things that you could never practice for. A classic example was when the rider in front of us got clocked by a low running deer coming from behind him at an angle that knocked his front wheel out from under the bike. One minute he's fine the next minute him and the bike are sliding down the highway. I don't remember if he even had time to get on his brakes until after the deer struck.

One interesting question about high viz - is a white helmet better (as I saw it mentioned several times) than a helmet with lots of reflective high viz markings on it?
Just curious about that one as I have a high viz helmet.
 
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Uncle Phil said:
My whole point was not that the rider thinks he become 'invincible' (so please don't assume my intent ;)) but that if drivers are not paying attention, it doesn't matter what you are wearing, how many lights you have on, or how loud your pipes are. High viz, lots of lights, etc. - and I have them - are all good but if we as riders are DEPENDING on that for a driver to see us, sooner or later they are going to get nailed. At the end of the day, it is up to us to protect ourselves because the answer will always be 'Officer, I just didn't see them' or as my friends across the pond say 'SMIDSY'. :biggrin: And practice is good but in 600,000+ miles of road experience, the things that get you are the things that you could never practice for. A classic example was when the rider in front of us got clocked by a low running deer coming from behind him at an angle that knocked his front wheel out from under the bike. One minute he's fine the next minute him and the bike are sliding down the highway. I don't remember if he even had time to get on his brakes until after the deer struck.

One interesting question about high viz - is a white helmet better (as I saw it mentioned several times) than a helmet with lots of reflective high viz markings on it?
Just curious about that one.
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What was that you weren’t saying?

Just another tool Phil. One of many we choose to use or not.
 
As Supe demonstrates – nothing is perfect nor guaranteed. No one has suggested otherwise. As dduelin observes – just another tool you can choose to use. Or not.

As to white helmets I vaguely recall the old (now mostly if not completely outdated) Hurt Report saying that helmet color didn't seem to make a difference. I choose to think it can but can't at all verify that.

I also choose to think reflective marking give a helmet's color an increased edge. I view the reflective nature as 'active' compared to a non-reflective helmet's color that's just 'there'. This would be akin to additional brake lights that include some flashing ability and possibly the Skien lights that are designed to catch your peripheral vision.

I'll stipulate that a light or other conspicuity device not seen is not effective in that moment and bad things could result. But for the most part adding passive and active devices doesn't hurt. Is this were someone would pipe up to say 'You can't depend on that/them' in spite of no one claiming that you can.

Love me some flashing lights. But they should have some semblance of organization or orchestration and not be a cacophony of light.

Now you see me.
Now I'm stopping.
Please do the same.

And no Close Encounters show. Although that would be kind of awesome.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
True.
In a true emergency maneuver, when things happen in milliseconds, people react. We do not think, analyze, decide, and respond. There just isn't time enough. Reactions are a result of repetition. Many people like to think that they will be better in an emergency than they actually will be. Under stress in an emergency people do what they always do- memory muscle. This is why in many high stress rapid response jobs people train on the same techniques over, and over, and over- to develop the correct memory muscle response. If we want to be proficient at emergency stopping and hazard avoidance, we need to practice emergency stopping and hazard avoidance.
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Couldn't agree more, the simple process of loading up the front wheel before applying hard braking can become second nature and you will/I do use it everytime I operate the front brake. Snatching at the front brake will just cause premature intervention and a lengthened braking distance. Or without ABS you will hit the deck.
Plus for what it's worth Hi Viz probably won't save your ass, I've got that T.
Upt.
 
We all pick and choose what safety gear we use - I just purchased a Hit Air Vest as I've had that 'annoying' habit of breaking ribs lately. ;)
If we didn't believe the stuff helped, we'd be riding in flip flops, cutoffs and t-shirts and with a pea pot helmet if one at all.
Hopefully it all helps for the drivers that are 'driving' and don't have their faces stuck in a cell phone.
I passed one yesterday because she was doing the 'cell phone weave'.
As I went by I could have reached over and slapped her and she would have never known what happened.
She was intently staring at the device in her hand - driving was a 'secondary' task.
Those are the ones - the 'mobile phone booths' - that nothing helps and sometimes we don't know which ones they are.
My biggest fear riding in traffic is getting tagged from behind by such a driver - especially when there is no viable 'escape'.
I have a Whelen flashing LED on the rear reflectors of all my ST1100s and they flash all the time when the brakes are applied.
Someone said that it is illegal but I figure it's illegal to hit me so I'll take my chances in court! :biggrin:
But if the driver is face down in a phone, that's not going to deliver me - I still keep scanning my rear mirrors and trying to figure out an 'escape'.
 
Months ago I painted this silver helmet red for better visibility.

Today when I left the house at 7:30 a.m. it was very foggy although I waited until after published sunrise to begin my trip.

I felt that there was still too much danger due to low visibility in thick fog, so I used clear packaging tape to stick this flat rectangular work light to the back of my helmet and I used it "ON" for the first two hours of riding.

F5757634-AD8F-40B6-BE50-84C92432717A.jpeg
 
I'm seeing more completely distracted drivers, the cell phone in the face, texting, laptop open, and......what appear to be stock dash displays modified to access movie services. Add that to a growing number who seem to think they're on the NASCAR circuit.
People are striking the concrete dividers so hard they are displaced....sometimes closing an adjacent lane.
Locally, this has created a push to lower highway speed limits, which will not phase this manner of behavior at all....they see nothing, respond to nothing, care for no one.
 
I wear a white helmet but that's my only nod to conspicuity.

Drivers/riders go where they're looking. I want drivers to know I'm around but not to fixate on me. Cop cars get hit all the time due to target fixation.

I did have a modulating headlight on my old ST1100 and it was effective at freaking all the drivers out in front of me who thought I was a cop. I'm not sure how safe it ever made me.

I actually do something that could appear foolish, but works for me. I deliberately look away from drivers when approaching them at intersections, etc. yet keep them very much in my peripheral vision. This seems to work in keeping them from thinking that I see them and somehow have given them permission to pull out or turn in front of me. Believe me, motorists will do all types of stupid things while you're making eye contact with them.

Like most people have said, I ride like I'm invisible and everyone and everything is trying to kill me.
 
Larry Fine said:
And it's not paranoia if it's true. ;)
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For sure. I wish it weren't true. Most of us could probably tell stories for hours about things that have happened to us on the road. Stuff mere mortals wouldn't believe. All the hi-viz whatnot in the world wouldn't have made any difference in the wrecks, injuries and the brushes with death that I've had over five decades of riding.

Anywho....everyone knows loud pipes , not loud clothes, save lives.)
 
I don't assume cages are trying to kill me but I assume that they have frequent episodes of brain fog and stupidity.
I myself was driving a little four-cylinder car when I ran a red light and got T-boned by a dump truck which knocked me across the road like the steel ball in a pinball game.

I had no clue the light was red in my direction, or that the road from which the dump truck came had a green light for at least 4-5seconds before I showed up,
but that's what all the witnesses said.

I didn't have a cell phone then,
I was not changing the vinyl 45 RPM records on my record player in the car,
I have no idea where my mind was during the last 10 seconds before I ran that intersection. (I was just "zoned out.")
 
I found a big difference on what bike I was riding, the little CBX550F I use to have was always getting tailgated . Not so much with the Silverwing, bigger bike plus a construction coat that looks like a police coat kept cages off a bit more. Okay one question has anyone figured out how to get the black stains out of HiVis material?
 
motornut said:
have always felt that if you can hit me, I made a mistake. Of course that does not cover many if not most conditions. The other thing I recommend is you ride or you don't. The way you react and the speed that you move becomes second nature ( in my opinion ) Think about hitting brake pedal or turning the steering wheel in your car when confronted by emergencies.
Did you really think about the brakes or did you just move first?
The other thing of utmost importance is knowing where your head lies when you throw your leg over the saddle, sometimes even the seasoned rider is just not in the game on that day.
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I feel the same way. If I need to use my horn, I am leaving a significant amount of my survivability in the hands of someone who may not respond as I want them to. My goal is to position myself to "protect my space". That means to position myself so it appears that the entire lane is occupied, and there's no room for a car to try squeezing into the gap. That'll mean moving from one side of the lane to the other, depending on the situation.

When I first started commuting, I had a lot of time to observe what was working and what wasn't. In Washington, motorcyclists can use the HOV lane for free. I could tell the newbies sometimes simply by how they positioned themselves. Some riders would hug the fog line on the left side...and generally tailgate as well. They didn't have to pretend to be invisible...they were. There was an interesting phenomenon with the riders who tailgated. They would ride right on the car's bumper ahead of them...and generally there'd be a car tailgating that rider as well. If the first car ever hit his brakes, the rider was going to hit them hard...and the car tailgating behind him would finish him off. On the other hand, I used a 3-4 second rule and rode in the right tire track where a driver could see me if he was looking for a break in the traffic to merge into. The first two seconds were my reaction time like they tell you in Drivers Ed. The second two seconds were to avoid what the car could run over with impunity...but would put me down on the pavement. You'd think that large space would be constantly filled. It wasn't. And only one person ever tailgated me in about a hundred thousand miles of commuting.

Riding is a perishable skill. If you have been riding for 20 years and ride only a thousand miles a year in the dry summer months, you don't have 20 years of experience. You have one year of experience repeated 20 times. Some of those miles you're riding are simply getting your skills relearned from what was second nature as @motornut mentioned above. And then the bad weather comes and the bike gets put away for another nine months.

Uncle Phil said:
One interesting question about high viz - is a white helmet better (as I saw it mentioned several times) than a helmet with lots of reflective high viz markings on it?
Just curious about that one as I have a high viz helmet.
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I think it is better. Most "hi-vis" helmets are black with hi-vis yellow accents. The hi-vis isn't enough to show up, only enough to make it attractive to the buyer.
gunsmoker said:
Months ago I painted this silver helmet red for better visibility.
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These words at the end of the Moody Blues "Nights in White Satin" or more accurately "Late Lament" have stuck with me for decades...because they are true. ;)

"Cold-hearted orb that rules the night,
Removes the colors from our sight.
Red is gray and yellow white,
But we decide which is right.
And which is an illusion?"

Red only shows up as "red" when it hits the light. Otherwise in low visibility situations...it is grey just like everything else. :)
ST1100TX said:
Drivers/riders go where they're looking. I want drivers to know I'm around but not to fixate on me.
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Hi-vis colors work because they hurt the eye. Not really because they are so visible.

Chris
 
gunsmoker said:
I don't assume cages are trying to kill me but I assume that they have frequent episodes of brain fog and stupidity.
I myself was driving a little four-cylinder car when I ran a red light and got T-boned by a dump truck which knocked me across the road like the steel ball in a pinball game.

I had no clue the light was red in my direction, or that the road from which the dump truck came had a green light for at least 4-5seconds before I showed up,
but that's what all the witnesses said.

I didn't have a cell phone then,
I was not changing the vinyl 45 RPM records on my record player in the car,
I have no idea where my mind was during the last 10 seconds before I ran that intersection. (I was just "zoned out.")
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I did this. I fixated on some hi-viz colored FDOT trucks that had stopped to let me turn into my street from a four-lane highway and I pulled right in front of an old man who was driving a top of the line Hyundai. Got T-boned. I've never been hit so hard by anything. Totaled my car. Probably totaled his. All I know is airbags on top of airbags went off in his car and he was uninjured. I got jacked up pretty good but no broken bones. Lucky.

I never saw that guy coming. I was too focused on the bright yellow-green trucks.
 
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