Think Honda missed a trick by not going for shaft drive, probably be a very comfortable softly sprung easy going tourer in the real world, looks to be a bit thirsty on fuel, don't think the competition are going to be very worried by this.
The New Touring Era 21.10.2021
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Sadlsor
Site Supporter
Nope, that's called an adjustable windscreen.
And we saved $117 per unit, by choosing manual mode rather than electric. Aaaa-nnn-n-d, as you can well imagine, we are extremely proud that we can pass these cost savings on to our loyal customers.
"Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon."
1962 Safety Rules from Honda
After the reviews by the lawyers it was told to Honda to make it non adjustable from the cockpit less someone fiddles with it and crashes while riding inviting a lawsuit. Like it or not this is the world we live in today.
Which is exactly what’s wrong with western society.
I put a deposit down on the Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
ChucksKLRST
Team Colorado
All these reviews, write ups, and conversations are great except the big question, is Honda of America going to bring the machine (NT1100) in to the US / when, and second question is what is the US price point going to be?
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
The biggest issue with reviewers that test a DCT bike is that they do not ride it long enough to understand it or know how to set it up correctly so they do not see the benefits it offers. When I first got my Africa Twin DCT it took a while to get used to it. Now that I have had it a while I would not go back to a std manual transmission. It is easy to say you would not like it. You need to live with it for a little while and then evaluate it. I can say I am a better rider especially in the tight twisty mountain roads with my DCT as it allows me to focus on my riding vs losing focus on managing my downshift, acceleration shifting in and out of corners. I can concentrate more on my lines and I am a smoother rider using a DCT once I got used to it. A reviewer that is not familiar with the DCT won't be able to really make a good judgement of it on a short test ride.
Just my .02
Dan
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Spot on.
And on the flip side, I have just got rid of my 2019 Africa Twin DCT and bought an ST1300 because although it is an amazing feat of technology, after 2 years I yearned for a more old-school riding experience again, I loved the DCT but I really missed a manual clutch. To me that was an integral part of the motorcycling experience and I needed it back in my life. But I totally agree - you need to live with a DCT for an extended period to understand it's merits fully. A brief test ride isn't going to do it.
Dan, your choice of transmission is obviously your business and what suits you won't suit everyone else. I'm sure on that we will agree. You state the reviewer will not be able to make a reasoned judgement, which I think is a bit of a sweeping statement, as we don't know their experience. DCT has been around for sometime and they should have some clue what they're talking about. No?
You also mention rider focus. I'm struggling to understand this, why would selecting the right gear for a hazard detract from your focus or judgement. Surely it only intensifies that focus.
I'm not anti DCT, if I ever ride one I'll let you know.
Upt'North.
STFlips
Site Supporter
That first ride video sure had an entertaining road, wow, I'd love to try that one! Reviewer seems to think it's a bit of a swiss army knife and does most things well and nothing very badly. Typical Honda, I guess (and the ST proved that already).
It might be a cultural difference too.
I read something recently about cars and the article was saying that in Europe the manual transmission is preferred. Whereas in the USA, the automatic transmission is preferred. So this reviewer's comments about wishing he had a manual transmission might be simply the preference that is common among drivers and riders in Europe. It seems they like to be more engaged in the driving experience.
Sadlsor
Site Supporter
I'm American, and I prefer manual transmission in my autos. What I prefer, and what is available in most models, are not the same thing.
I don't fancy automatic shifting on a bike, but I'll try to remain open, till such time as I actually have a chance to ride one.
I don't fancy automatic shifting on a bike, but I'll try to remain open, till such time as I actually have a chance to ride one.
I had a Suzuki Burgman 400 before buying a Honda NT700V. I was getting arthritis in my left hand and part of my decision to buy the NT was to experience a "normal" motorcycle before the arthritis took that option away. As it turned out, operating the clutch lever helped the arthritis to the point it is a non-issue now. The BMW F800GT's clutch is far stiffer than the NT's, and my left hand has grown stronger as a result. I really don't think much at all about shifting. It just happens. Smoothly. Efficiently. And it is just part of the riding experience that I treasure.
Chris
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
I don't disagree with you and everyone has their own riding style and preferences. When I read a ride review now after owning a DCT and see the comments the reviewer makes about the DCT, it is easy for me to tell that the reviewer is not familiar with the DCT as I understand from my own learning curve what the reviewer is experiencing as I also had the same experience when I first had mine. I'm in no way negative about a std. transmission. I am just trying to convey the message that one needs to understand that a simple short ride on a DCT is not enough to learn if you would like it or not. There is a different skill set required to use the DCT vs a std. gearbox. It takes a bit to get comfortable with it. Many people think it takes control away from the rider but in reality you always have full control. The newer DCT from 2018 onward are much better and smother in downshifting and control in tight corners and in low speed smoothness of operation. They automatically throttle blip and have smooth downshifts. You would be very surprised as I was about how much of my riding concentration was occupied with operating clutch and transmission before. I still shift manually at times with the paddle shifts but not always. Riding in traffic is also a breeze with the DCT.
I nearly went there Daboo......but didn't. I have never owned anything automatic, bike or car. But that's not to say I won't. I think the nearest would be a semi automatic Honda Cub. Although I have driven many automatic cars at work over the years. I remember the XJ6's were much nicer and quiter with the torque converter auto box.It might be a cultural difference too.
Perceptions are changing though and that is being driven by DCT, flappy paddles and EV's. Who's got time to change gear anymore? A serious point.
VAG sell masses of DCT equipped cars and Ford, GM and the premium Germans are catching up.
So yes I think culturally there could be a reluctance in Europe to accept automatic transmissions especially in performance settings.
Upt'North.
the Ferret
Daily rider since May 1965
Those of us that have bought Honda DCT's know how good they are. I own both manual clutch and DCT motorcycles. The only difference in the riding experience is I don't have to pull in a blade with my left hand and make shifts with my left foot. I can leave the DCT in total automatic mode, which I can manually over ride for downshifts with my left thumb for more power or more engine braking, OR I can put it in manual shift and do every shift up and down with my left thumb and forefinger, and don't have to pull in a clutch when stopping or emergency braking, or feed a clutch in to take off. Real handy in stop and go traffic.
DCT's in manual mode are not really much different than a lot of new high performance bikes with up and down quick shifters (all the rage you know), where the clutch lever is only used for starts and stops. On both bikes, up shifts and down shifts can be made under full power. The difference is whether you use your left hand or left foot.
With regards to riding experience, since we all like riding twisties, corner entry, tip in, trail braking, engine braking, apexing, and corner exit are all the same whether on a DCT equipped bike in manual mode or a manual clutch bike.... and you can leave a DCT in auto mode it will do all of the up and down shifting for you if you so desire, allowing you to concentrate on your lines.
If you are touring and riding on the freeway, you are basically in top gear all day and it's like riding an automatic anyway. You are not shifting, you are just riding, unless you stop for gas or food and then have to shift going up or down a freeway ramp.
People think shifting is some kind of black art that takes years to learn, but it's not really that hard. Even kids can do it. My nephew's were quite adept at shifting their Yamaha MX 80's when they raced motocross at ages 6 and 9. By the time they moved up to the 100 and 125 classes a year or two later they were shifting pros.
DCT's in manual mode are not really much different than a lot of new high performance bikes with up and down quick shifters (all the rage you know), where the clutch lever is only used for starts and stops. On both bikes, up shifts and down shifts can be made under full power. The difference is whether you use your left hand or left foot.
With regards to riding experience, since we all like riding twisties, corner entry, tip in, trail braking, engine braking, apexing, and corner exit are all the same whether on a DCT equipped bike in manual mode or a manual clutch bike.... and you can leave a DCT in auto mode it will do all of the up and down shifting for you if you so desire, allowing you to concentrate on your lines.
If you are touring and riding on the freeway, you are basically in top gear all day and it's like riding an automatic anyway. You are not shifting, you are just riding, unless you stop for gas or food and then have to shift going up or down a freeway ramp.
People think shifting is some kind of black art that takes years to learn, but it's not really that hard. Even kids can do it. My nephew's were quite adept at shifting their Yamaha MX 80's when they raced motocross at ages 6 and 9. By the time they moved up to the 100 and 125 classes a year or two later they were shifting pros.
the Ferret
Daily rider since May 1965
BTW sales of automatic cars in Europe are way up
Automatic Transmissions Gaining In Popularity In Europe (fordauthority.com)
and Honda says in Europe of the models of motorcycles they offer in both std and DCT, the DCT is chosen 53% of the time over their std shift counterparts.
You could say there is a "shift" in attitudes towards automatics, even in Europe (see what I did there lol)
Automatic Transmissions Gaining In Popularity In Europe (fordauthority.com)
and Honda says in Europe of the models of motorcycles they offer in both std and DCT, the DCT is chosen 53% of the time over their std shift counterparts.
You could say there is a "shift" in attitudes towards automatics, even in Europe (see what I did there lol)
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
One other thing a lot of people don't understand. A DCT is not an automatic transmission in the same way most cars are automatic. There is no torque converter or slushy shifting. It is directly coupled to a transmission not unlike a std. transmission. With dual clutches it can shift faster than a std. transmission as the next higher gear is already engaged and ready when the clutches shift operation. The DCT shifts lightning fast and as others have said it is like having a quick shifter without the hand clutch for starting and stopping. The other thing that sometimes is not clear that it gives you a lot of options , as in riding in traffic it is great and you can ride in automatic mode when your are just putting around but if you want to you can go to full manual operation and have all the fun of a manual quick shifter. For those that don't like the hand paddle shifters, Honda makes a retrofit foot shifter so you can still shift with your foot if so desired.