ST1100 Anti-Freeze Leak

Uncle Phil said:
Thanks for the tip on the timing marks as I will watch it when I put it back together.
The tube assembly is easy enough to get out once the water pump is out.
Although the parts diagrams show that the 'tube' is separate from the housing, I do not see anyway short of 'destruction' on getting them apart to replace the o-ring. It almost looks like the tube is pressed into the housing as there is a metal lip. There is nothing in the HSM, Clymers, or anywhere I can find that talks about replacing the tube o-ring. I'll just replace the o-ring under the housing and call it good at this point. I did not have to remove the crossmember, just unbolting it gave me enough wiggle room to get the water pump out. I find it strange that the HSM says apply motor oil to the rubber water pump gasket. I am thinking silicone o-ring lubricant would be better. Besides HSM did not specify if it had to be fully syn, semi-syn or dino .... :biggrin:
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The metal lip is part of the tube, it supports the o ring to stop it being pushed back out of the housing. It is just a tight fit / push into the housing and once the pipe is fitted it can't move back out of the housing. It you take a look at the parts fiche, (say csml), it will show what you are fighting with!
 
gcos said:
The metal lip is part of the tube, it supports the o ring to stop it being pushed back out of the housing. It is just a tight fit / push into the housing and once the pipe is fitted it can't move back out of the housing. It you take a look at the parts fiche, (say csml), it will show what you are fighting with!
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The problem is when that pipe has been in place for 140,000+ miles it does not want to come out ... ;)
I finally got the pipe out of the cover but now the cover is buggered up and you can't buy them.
 
Uncle Phil said:
I presume silicone o-ring lube would be fine?
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Yeah, that's what I use, on pretty much all O-rings in there... prevents twisting, eases inserting the components...
Unless you don't have the pre-molded, OEM one and use a "standard" O-ring (I've seen such "tips" to safe a few cent...), then you might need to glue that in with some sealer to prevent it from popping out while handling...
(I do so on valve cover and float bowl gaskets, a thin smear of Pattex holds them perfectly in place...)

dwalby said:
... no matter how I tried, the timing marks on the two cam gears wouldn't align perfectly with the marks.
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My theory would be slight stretching and wear on the old belt... but I don't recall and major offsets when doing mine...
Some folks also report "the engine sounds different/runs rough" after a new t/belt in place...
 
ST1100Y said:
My theory would be slight stretching and wear on the old belt... but I don't recall and major offsets when doing mine...
Some folks also report "the engine sounds different/runs rough" after a new t/belt in place...
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to clarify, the timing with the original belt before removal was perfect, but after installing the new pulleys/water pump/timing belt it just wouldn't line up.

Something in the path between the two pulleys had changed slightly, so the suspects would be:

1. the diameter of the new pulley was different from the original pulley
2. the location of the pulley mount had changed slightly, because the threads where the pulley attaches to the water pump were slightly different than the original
3. the location of the pulley mount had changed slightly, because the new water pump fit in just slightly different than the original
4. the Gates timing belt was just slightly different in tooth pitch than the original Honda belt, which is also made by Gates anyway.

Given machining tolerances I'd suspect 1-2 are very unlikely, 3 is also unlikely because of the alignment dowels, so 4 is probably the most likely explanation. But, numerous people have used the Gates belt without this issue, but usually the water pump isn't changed in the process, so maybe #3 is also a possible cause.

I certainly didn't expect to encounter this issue, but given that its mostly academic and didn't affect the performance of the engine, I didn't worry about it and just accepted it.
 
I don't recall putting anything on mine. I haven't had any bolts back out in 45 years of home wrenching, so it seems like maybe its not a bad idea to use it, but not critical if you don't.

I did mine in 2013, so its lasted 11 years without it.
 
I’d use Loctite blue… NOT red!! :)

Loctite 248 is good stuff, comes in “glue stick” format, no bottle nozzle to get blocked up…
 
@John OoSTerhuis & @ST1100Y & @dwalby (and anybody else that has changed a ST1100 water pump) -
The torque on the 7 water pump bolts (3 are long, 4 are shorter) is 9 ft/lbs based on the 'generic' torque values for 6mm bolt with a 10mm flange head.
I cannot find any setting in the HSM specific to the water pump bolts so does that square with your knowledge?
Obviously I don't want them too loose but then I don't want to twist a bolt off in the block either! ;)
 
I can't recall for sure if I used a torque wrench on those, but my guess is I probably did. For typical 6mm bolts I use the 9ft-lb spec and set my in-lb torque wrench to 108in-lb.

after doing all 7, go back over them one more time to make sure they're all equally snug.

make sure you're using an in-lb torque wrench and not something designed for higher torque ranges. Don't use something rated for 5-75ft-lb and set it to 9, they're generally not accurate enough at the bottom end of the range.
 
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@John OoSTerhuis & @ST1100Y & @dwalby (and anybody else that has changed a ST1100 timing belt) - Water pump is in place and torqued/retorqued to 9 ft/lbs. I don't know what I am doing wrong, but I have been trying to install the new timing belt for the last two hours and cannot get the new belt over the water pump pulley (which most instructions say should be the last one). It is a Honda OEM belt, the tensioner pulley is loose, everything is sitting where it should be but it's like the belt is a 1/4 inch too short. I've tried all the 'recommended' methods of what order of pulleys to do (they vary) but no joy. Ideas?
 
Make sure you have all the tension off of the tensioner pulley. I seem to be having memories that I put the belt on without the spring attached to the tensioner, then after the belt was on pulled the spring into place while holding it with vise-grips. And, I'm also wondering if I tried that and it didn't work because the spring was too strong and I ended up doing it another way. One way or another get the tensioner pulley as loose as possible, it has a slotted mounting groove where the bolt goes through, so if there's a way to pry it into the loosest position and lock it down with the bolt, try to do that. Then release it after the belt is installed.

If I did it a week ago I'd be able to tell you how I did it, but since it was 11 years ago I'm not able to remember the details.
 
Since the tensioner pulley is locked down with the bolt after the spring tensions the belt, its not going to make any difference how old the spring is once its locked down. So, if you're using a brand new tensioner spring and its too stiff, try again with the old one, it may be easier.
 
dwalby said:
Make sure you have all the tension off of the tensioner pulley. I seem to be having memories that I put the belt on without the spring attached to the tensioner, then after the belt was on pulled the spring into place while holding it with vise-grips. And, I'm also wondering if I tried that and it didn't work because the spring was too strong and I ended up doing it another way. One way or another get the tensioner pulley as loose as possible, it has a slotted mounting groove where the bolt goes through, so if there's a way to pry it into the loosest position and lock it down with the bolt, try to do that. Then release it after the belt is installed.

If I did it a week ago I'd be able to tell you how I did it, but since it was 11 years ago I'm not able to remember the details.
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@John OoSTerhuis & @ST1100Y & @dwalby -
That was the trick - I thought I had the tensioner pulley all the way down but it still had a little bit more it could move.
Still a pain in the anatomy, but I got her on without moving any of the pulleys.
I loosened the bolt and let the tensioner pulley 'float up' as much as I could let it, then torqued it back down.
Should I 'force' the tensioner pulley up more (it appears to be fine) or let it be where it came to 'rest'?
With the plugs out, I've turned the engine over completely 4 times with a ratchet on the crank and everything stayed in alignment.
 
Uncle Phil said:
Should I 'force' the tensioner pulley up more (it appears to be fine) or let it be where it came to 'rest'?
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the job of the spring is to put the correct amount of tension on the belt, don't try to overthink it. But, I'd turn it over a few times manually like you did, but with the tensioner free to move to take slack out of the belt as needed, then tighten it down one last time.
 
dwalby said:
the job of the spring is to put the correct amount of tension on the belt, don't try to overthink it. But, I'd turn it over a few times manually like you did, but with the tensioner free to move to take slack out of the belt as needed, then tighten it down one last time.
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The HSM says turn it 2-4 times, loosen the tensioner, then turn the crank 4 teeth past the mark and then tighten the tensioner.
I've got the timing covers back on and now starts the 'rest' of the reassembly.
Trimming that cover with a Dremel turned reinstallation of it into a simple process (@wjbertrand - thanks!)
I reckon in a few days I should be at the point to fire her up and I'll either be really happy or looking for a new engine! ;)
I've got another one with 184,000+miles and one with 82,000+ miles so I'll probably get a lot more practice at this before very long.
After water pumps failing on 2 out 3 at 130,000-140,000 miles I'm ready to shift to the 'replace the water pump' at 100,000 along with the timing belt just to err on the side of caution.
 
Uncle Phil said:
The HSM says turn it 2-4 times, loosen the tensioner, then turn the crank 4 teeth past the mark and then tighten the tensioner.
I've got the timing covers back on and now starts the 'rest' of the reassembly.
Trimming that cover with a Dremel turned reinstallation of it into a simple process (@wjbertrand - thanks!)
I reckon in a few days I should be at the point to fire her up and I'll either be really happy or looking for a new engine! ;)
I've got another one with 184,000+miles and one with 82,000+ miles so I'll probably get a lot more practice at this before very long.
After water pumps failing on 2 out 3 at 130,000-140,000 miles I'm ready to shift to the 'replace the water pump' at 100,000 along with the timing belt just to err on the side of caution.
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Mine just turned over 90K and I ain't going to sweat it. Change the timing belt at 100K is the plan. Unless murphy hits me:frown:
 
red one said:
Mine just turned over 90K and I ain't going to sweat it. Change the timing belt at 100K is the plan. Unless murphy hits me:frown:
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At this point with my experiences, I have a lot more confidence in the timing belt going way over 100K than I do the water pumps! ;)
The big issue is finding a ST1100 water pump if you need one.
If push comes to shove, I believe there is a gentleman on this board that rebuilds them.
 
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