Rear wheel and tire removal time

AV8R

AV8R

Joined
May 19, 2018
Messages
1,121
Location
Southern California
Bike
2005 ST1300 PA
I did the front replacement a little while ago, and its time to do the rear. It was my first time doing the front and so too now for the rear. I didnt find a how to thread or video in this forum area (maybe there is and i missed it?), but i found this YouTube video. Looks not so bad, this the correct way i hope:

[video=youtube_share;tXOTk5q4uWA]https://youtu.be/tXOTk5q4uWA[/video]

i know a place that changes the tire off/on the wheel for free after buying the tire. But wheel removal is on me.
 
Remember, he doesn't show loosening the rear axle bolt and the caliper stopper bolt which can take some force. Nor does he illustrate torquing them back up. I've never found much need to loosen the exhaust clamp bolts. I can rotate the exhaust out of the way without touching them. I usually rotate both exhausts to get easier access
 
Do you have a service manual?
Did you follow the service manuals instructions?
This video missed ALOT of important steps.

Just a few questions:

Did you clean off the splines and replace the Moly 60 paste on both pieces?
Did you replace the large O-ring on the splines?
Did you replace the small O-ring that is hidden underneath the spline plate?
Did you check the driven/flange bearings?
Did you lift the plate and check the conditions of the rubber dampers?
Did you use antiseize on the axle, or a least a good quality water proof grease?
Did you make sure the axle collar was seated correctly inside the pumpkin?
Did you TORQUE the 14mm head stopper bolt BEFORE tightening down the axle nut? (VERY IMPORTANT)
Did you check/clean/lubricate your rear caliper guide pins and inspect your rear caliper completely?
Did you remember to tighten the lower muffler bolts once you were finished (often missed)
Did you inspect/replace the rubber muffler hanger grommets (normally damaged from dealerships service)
Did you test the secondary master cylinder for correct function after removing/replacing the rear wheel?
I could go on, but I think you get the idea :rolleyes:
 
Other than a by-the-book professional mechanic or amateur with time and attention to details, does most anyone else do all this? Do even Honda Service centers do all this?

(Some how I doubt it).

But it would explain how something that would seem an easy DIY can be expensive when charged for worst case parts and labor. And yes, if all this is done, the chance for other problems are minimized. Often corners are cut due to budgetary, work loads, and down time constraints... by “pros” and amateurs alike.

Thanks for the insight
 
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AV8R said:
Other than a by-the-book professional mechanic, does anyone do all this?
Do even Honda Service centers do all this?

(Some how I doubt it).

But it would explain how something that would seem an easy DIY can be expensive when charged for worst case parts and labor.

Thanks for the insight
Click to expand...

I do
Professional mechanics should (but often don't)
And NO most Honda Service centers do not do all this (which is why I have a steady stream of bikes in the garage at any one time) repairing and or correcting stuff the dealerships either didn't do, damaged, or missed.
Shaft drives have a way of damaging themselves in short order without the correct moly paste. Stopper bolts have a way of working loose and falling out, causing the caliper to shift forward and cut the rear brake like completely through leaving you with slippery brake fluid all over your rear wheel, and oh yeah, with no, or very little brakes!
Replacing the O-rings is recommended in the service manual, and is a good idea if you plan on keeping your bike in good condition.
Dirty or jammed guide pins can cause the rear brake to LOCK UP without warning and leave you in the number two traffic lane with no way to move your 700 pound motorcycle to the side of the road.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not picking on you, The job is a pretty easy job to do, as all the other normal service stuff on these bikes, I'm just saying the correct way to do things is SAFER than shortcuts some dealerships use to do battle with the flat rate book.
Besides you sound like you really like your bike, don't you want to take care of it the best you can?
 
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Yes i do like my bike, but my azz even better... well in one piece anyways
:eek:

If you were local (ok not the crazy-local, but geographically speaking),
id prolly pay you to do things right. Unfortunately i dont have Garage space, proper tools or even time to do it right, so its either DIY or pay Mr 10 year Honda Team guy at local Honda Service center. Being i already have to rob mary to pay paul to get the maintenance done this week, i may have to go DIY but keep an eye on your ammunition, i mean admonition.
:cool:

Can you trim down your list to minimalist do-or-die least common denominator?
im guessing the alignment was behind your warning about brake stay before axel bolt, yes?
 
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AV8R said:
Yes i do like my bike, but my azz even better... well in one piece anyways
:eek:

If you were local (ok not the crazy-local, but geographically speaking),
id prolly pay you to do things right. Unfortunately i dont have Garage space, proper tools or even time to do it right, so its either DIY or pay Mr 10 year Honda Team guy at local Honda Service center. Being i already have to rob mary to pay paul to get the maintenance done this week, i may have to go DIY but keep an eye on your ammunition, i mean admonition.
:cool:

Can you trim down your list to minimalist do-or-die least common denominator?
im guessing the alignment was behind your warning about brake stay before axel bolt, yes?
Click to expand...

While it's a good idea to check the brakes, you don't need to do all that for a simple tire change, but a very good idea for at least the caliper pins and maybe pistons while the wheel is off, I did an article on rear brake piston cleaning here that should help. I would if it were me but I have a garage and even though I can change a tire in a few mins I take the extra time to look over the bike and spot possible issues or clean things that get exposed to dirt/grim and are suppose to be clean. You definitely don't need to replace any o-rings on the st1300 unless they look bad. I've done a lot of ST1300 tire changes and have never seen one that looked bad. On the ST1100 it's a little different issue as i understand it but I haven't done nearly as many of those and usually the owner had replacement o-rings.
 
There is an often over looked o-ring (O-RING (61X2)91302-MA6-003) behind the spline plate that keeps the steel plate off of the aluminum hub of the rim, these o-rings wear out and become flat allowing the metal assembly to start carving the aluminum hub/rim.
This one o-ring should be replaced at every tire change to protect your rim. The large o-ring that is visible, keeps the moly paste in position, and normally only needs to be replaced when worn out or damaged.
My thought on service is, if you don't have time to do it right the first time, how will you find the time to correct it the second time :rolleyes:
 
Igofar said:
There is an often over looked o-ring (O-RING (61X2)91302-MA6-003) behind the spline plate that keeps the steel plate off of the aluminum hub of the rim, these o-rings wear out and become flat allowing the metal assembly to start carving the aluminum hub/rim.
This one o-ring should be replaced at every tire change to protect your rim. The large o-ring that is visible, keeps the moly paste in position, and normally only needs to be replaced when worn out or damaged.
My thought on service is, if you don't have time to do it right the first time, how will you find the time to correct it the second time :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I disagree... the o-ring is not something you need to replace every time, just $ out the door... I never did on mine and it was fine and still is. I can see maybe replacing every 50 or 75 thousands miles but no need to replace something like that every time. The ST1100s are a different animal and I think it's recommended there.
 
Igofar said:
Do you have a service manual?
Did you follow the service manuals instructions? If we did that all the time, we would be doing many things that aren't necessary
This video missed ALOT of important steps.

Just a few questions:

Did you clean off the splines and replace the Moly 60 paste on both pieces? Always
Did you replace the large O-ring on the splines? Can't remember the last time I replaced one of those...I think on my '05 @ about 120K miles
Did you replace the small O-ring that is hidden underneath the spline plate?Nope
Did you check the driven/flange bearings?Always
Did you lift the plate and check the conditions of the rubber dampers?See comment about Large-Oring
Did you use antiseize on the axle, or a least a good quality water proof grease?I always grease it
Did you make sure the axle collar was seated correctly inside the pumpkin?A must
Did you TORQUE the 14mm head stopper bolt BEFORE tightening down the axle nut? (VERY IMPORTANT)Always
Did you check/clean/lubricate your rear caliper guide pins and inspect your rear caliper completely?Only when replacing the brake pads
Did you remember to tighten the lower muffler bolts once you were finished (often missed)Since I often just remove the mufflers completely, I have to tighten them
Did you inspect/replace the rubber muffler hanger grommets (normally damaged from dealerships service)Yeah, they get damaged, but I usually don't replace them
Did you test the secondary master cylinder for correct function after removing/replacing the rear wheel?Always...that's how I found my '10's rear wheel locking up! :eek:4:
I could go on, but I think you get the idea :rolleyes: Yes you could! :D
Click to expand...

Don't take Larry wrong, he is well meaning. :)

Larry and Joe have done a lot of tire swaps, but the ones I've done were all on my own bikes. And when I have done them, as long as I don't get distracted when I'm in the middle of an important step (this has happened twice out of how many times...;) I remember to tighten everything up! :D

There are only two items that need to be torqued when R&R the rear wheel. The brake stop pin (51LBS - after you lightly put some brake grease on the pin part only) and the rear axle (80LBS). Everything else just get them nice and snug!

Maybe, after WeSTOC (I have a lot to do to get ready for it), I can have you come down and I can demonstrate on one of my bikes some of the things you need to do to maintain your bike. Most aren't that hard, it's just when you are not familiar with things, well, you know. ;)
 
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That's fine, we'll agree to disagree on that o-ring, however, EVERY rear wheel that I've removed and inspected (keeping in mind most are high mileage, abused, or ex-police motors) I have found that o-ring to be crushed flat, and found signs of scoring on the rear wheel.
Maybe this does not bother you, however, wear is wear, and if it can be prevented by replacing something as simple as an o-ring, that's an easy thing to do in my opinion.
I know you take good care of your equipment, and that's probably why you've never needed to replace one, or maybe you just didn't tear it down enough to inspect it, but keep in mind by the time I see bikes roll in, their normally in a poor shape of repair or broken.
 
AV8R said:
Advice heard gentlemen

Beastie is 70k miles and who knows if it was ever replaced
now to find some Moly60, hopefully at Autozone or Homedepo.

part ordered and expedited
https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/91302-MA6-003

Thank you
Click to expand...

You won't find Moly 60 at either of those places, you can probably order some loctite moly 60 paste on line or from amazon.
There is much debate going on with the current moly paste/grease that Honda is offering (search forum) and it seems the loctite stuff may be our best choice at this point.
 
Well, police bikes definitely get the most abuse... I'd say for the average rider and even the high mileage rider, they wouldn't have an issue. I have inspected mine entire wheel assembly in the past, just for grins, and it's never been a problem... most of the ST's I've seen are just your average rider that puts from 10 to 30k of riding on a year. I'm sure that doesn't compare to a police bike w/5k on it as they push them to the limits all the time.
 
Let's face it, the cop bikes, although well maintained, are ridden hard!

And what Larry sees, would explain (besides his OCD) why he replaces so many of the Orings.

Although lane splitting is harder on a bike than regular riding, it's nowhere near as hard on them as police work.

So I really think we are talking Apples & Oranges when we talk about working on a cop bike compared to working on a non cop bike. :D
 
The OP's bike is a used police motor, with 70k miles on it, and has no service history.
I'd start from the ground up to establish a base line on service and repairs done.
 
Igofar said:
The OP's bike is a used police motor, with 70k miles on it, and has no service history.
I'd start from the ground up to establish a base line on service and repairs done.
Click to expand...

And that is an excellent point! Although, I have a feeling he's on a really tight budget, so he'll have to hit things as he can and hopefully not have something break on him in the meantime!
 
Bob, nice of you to offer to assist him, I've sent him a few emails to try and make :call: contact with him, but I guess he chooses not too.
I wish I was closer to him, I would take his bike hostage and give it the ole OCD once over.
:rofl1:
 
Mellow said:
Sorry, but I disagree... the o-ring is not something you need to replace every time, just $ out the door... I never did on mine and it was fine and still is. I can see maybe replacing every 50 or 75 thousands miles but no need to replace something like that every time. The ST1100s are a different animal and I think it's recommended there.
Click to expand...
I agree here. There is no need to replace either O ring at every tire change. O rings like other seals are used to prevent migration of lubricant out and egress of water/dirt/debris in and not to act as a bearing surface. The sistered R6905RS bearings and collar assembly in the driven spline keep the driven spline flange in alignment on the axle and within the wheel hub and prevent the steel spline from contacting the machined surfaces of the wheel hub. These twin bearings have a reputation for requiring replacement at less than 30,000 miles and should be examined every tire change. The spline flange has to be removed to check the right side wheel bearing as well and with the driven flange removed it's easy to check both of the spline bearings and the right hand wheel bearing.

This wheel has about 118,000 miles on it and according to my records I replaced the O ring at 49,000 miles and driven spline bearings at 96,000. You can see the machined surfaces of the hub are in original excellent condition. Because I have two wheels I swap back and forth at every tire change I remove the original 2005 driven spine flange and reinsert it in the wheel with the new tire in order to keep the original male spline wearing against the original female drive spline in the final drive.
 

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