Pan Weave

I'm in the no weave group with speeds up to about 150 kph I think. There was a bit of pucker factor however. I have a topbox on it as well. Mine is a 2014 so maybe the design was tinkered with enough by then?
 
Weaselinsuit said:
I'm in the no weave group with speeds up to about 150 kph I think. There was a bit of pucker factor however. I have a topbox on it as well. Mine is a 2014 so maybe the design was tinkered with enough by then?
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That works out to about 93 mph. Aren't most ST1300 owners claiming to have weave that begins at higher speeds than that?
 
Back in 2008 when I was on an autobahn in Germany I tested the ST1300 I was on (which was supposed to have been a police bike).
I saw it at prolonged speeds above 120 mph if the windshield was up at any setting.
You couldn't just run up and back down, you had to stay there for a bit.
If the windshield was completely down it was fine.
I surmised that it had something to do with aerodynamic lift as the windshield does not go straight back, but sort of in a curved fashion.
The ST1300 did have the Hondaline topbox fitted.
It felt like driving an old pickup truck that had too much stuff in the back - the front end got light.
But it seems to have varied from bike to bike AFAIK.

Uncle Phil - Alps 2008 Day 04

www.unclephil.us
 
Uncle Phil said:
Back in 2008 when I was on an autobahn in Germany I tested the ST1300 I was on (which was supposed to have been a police bike).
I saw it at prolonged speeds above 120 mph if the windshield was up at any setting.
You couldn't just run up and back down, you had to stay there for a bit.
If the windshield was completely down it was fine.
I surmised that it had something to do with aerodynamic lift as the windshield does not go straight back, but sort of in a curved fashion.
The ST1300 did have the Hondaline topbox fitted.
It felt like driving an old pickup truck that had too much stuff in the back - the front end got light.
But it seems to have varied from bike to bike AFAIK.

Uncle Phil - Alps 2008 Day 04

www.unclephil.us
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Those are my thoughts, exactly. I think that a certain amount of weight in the back is causing a light condition in the front that is exacerbated by lift created by the windscreen shape.
The underside of the fairing could be as important as the top in creating lift. I wonder if an airdam/spoiler under the fairing would make a difference?
 
Never had a weave on mine and it saw 125mph a few times. Police bike, and they aren't governed in the UK.
 
The ST is the first bike I've owned where the windscreen is mounted to the body of the bike. Every other windscreen or deflector I've had is / was mounted on the handle bars and I never gave it a second thought until the first time trying to maneuver the ST at slow speed with the windscreen up. Just about as much fun as when your passenger falls asleep and sets her helmet against yours. Love... where was I...
I think [or I should say know] that with the windscreen up, top box on, over 80, passing a semi, in a cross wind, around a bend... maybe... maybe it's me. Maybe I'm the one shaking the ____ out of it.
The reality is most of us have done it and the part we conveniently leave out in retrospect, is the rider input / ____ scared factor we contributed to the phenomenon while otherwise taking accurate account.
 
I met a guy at a get-together a couple days ago who has a late model BMW K1600 that he says has a weave. That bike is governed to just over 100 mph and he thinks the weave is the reason.
 
ST1100TX said:
I met a guy at a get-together a couple days ago who has a late model BMW K1600 that he says has a weave. That bike is governed to just over 100 mph and he thinks the weave is the reason.
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Pretty much all MC BBs will have their own weave threads.

Ask AI and she'll tell you:

"""""Yes, motorcycles, including Harley-Davidsons, can weave""""
 
FWIW, friend of mine has a '07, upgraded suspension (front and rear) by WP, runs like on rails...

It however still is more sensitive to dirty air (like behind HGVs/semis) as the 1100...
An aerodynamic issue paired with borderline frame/suspension design... (well, everyone wanted it "more agile", now you have it...)
 
I have noticed that my front tire wears on the side and the rear tire squares up, I know it is normal wear. This will change how your bike handles, but it creeps up on you making it harder to pinpoint the changes.
I have to believe that different contact patches are going to add to any load, suspension settings as well as aerodynamics at higher speeds, I have head shake, I believe from trunk size and suspension settings and speed. Coupled with a headwind.
Changing tires will definitely change output as well as suspension changes, load and distribution and all, or a combination of it All of it put together makes identification of where weave and is caused by can be as hard as why one color is faster than the other.
Harder yet is the personal definition of what is happening, I also have had what could be considered "weave" with the windshield up in a cross wind, it only had to do with the windshield and conditions
 
motornut said:
I have noticed that my front tire wears on the side and the rear tire squares up, I know it is normal wear. This will change how your bike handles, but it creeps up on you making it harder to pinpoint the changes.
I have to believe that different contact patches are going to add to any load, suspension settings as well as aerodynamics at higher speeds, I have head shake, I believe from trunk size and suspension settings and speed. Coupled with a headwind.
Changing tires will definitely change output as well as suspension changes, load and distribution and all, or a combination of it All of it put together makes identification of where weave and is caused by can be as hard as why one color is faster than the other.
Harder yet is the personal definition of what is happening, I also have had what could be considered "weave" with the windshield up in a cross wind, it only had to do with the windshield and conditions
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The weave is unmistakable when you experience it. The ST feels like is "swimming" with simultaneous roll and yaw motions. The faster the mph once in the weave the higher the magnitude of the roll and yaw. It's not really felt through the bars though the bars are displaced back and forth slightly as the motions are damped.
 
ATA said:
Owned my '07 ST1300 for about two months now. Love it! Just came across the "Pan Weave" issue. Don't plan on doing any high speed cruising, (I'm an under 100 mph rider) but would like to hear your thoughts on this anomaly. Looks like it's nothing to worry about if you use common sense - any high speed runs should be done with the wind screen down, light weight in the pans, no trunk and medium rear shock load. Thoughts...

Alan
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Some years ago in the UK,where alot of Police forces were using Pans at that point,there were a number of high profile cases of crashes after weaves.Simply down to too much equipment in the back.The radios needed v heavy batteries then and that,coupled with all the other kit was causing the weaves.Honda quite rightly maintained it wasn,t the bike.
 
There were actually only a small number of incidents. Traced to UK only Police Pans being modified to have a higher ride height to meet a Government specification relating to ability to mount a kerb.

Been surprised at number of Pans I have come across with rear suspension still in shipping setting after both years and many many miles after they left the dealership.

Seems dealers in both Europe and North America were sending them out door without either setting suspension, or even mentioning it to new owner
 
V4 Rider said:
Been surprised at number of Pans I have come across with rear suspension still in shipping setting after both years and many many miles after they left the dealership.

Seems dealers in both Europe and North America were sending them out door without either setting suspension, or even mentioning it to new owner
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Just curious, what setting is that? The lowest? If so, that should be the least-wobbly setting.
 
The ST1300 was released to the motorcycle public in the spring of 2002. Paris IIRC. Due to concerns about high speed stability raised by motojournalists riding the bike at the release Honda was forced to stop sell the bike during the summer of 2002 while Honda worked on a fix for the weave. The fix was reassessment of engine mount bolt torque values and changes in the swing arm pivot fittings. The bike went back on sale in the EC during the fall of 2002 but did not come to North America until 2003. The death of Merseyside law enforcement officer Reeve 2.5 years later brought the reputed stability problems into sharp focus. Most British jurisdictions got rid of their ST1300 authority bikes in the aftermath of the crash and the release of the coroner’s report which was able to validate what has become the Pan Weave. British magazine RIDE instrumented a ST1300 in 2007 and documented the weave as roll and up to 11 degrees (IIRC) of yaw in certain conditions and configurations of pannier loads and windshield height.
 
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