older riders

It should be said that there are some truly talented motorcycle pilots that ride the roadways and never venture to a racetrack. Some would probably do well on the track and be quite successful in that environment, but for them it's easier to back their bike out of the garage and ride whenever they feel the urge, for as short or as long as they care to ride and arrive their satisfaction from challenging themselves in the public environment. Not exactly socially acceptable imo, but there are a lot of things people do that are not socially acceptable .. also mo.

I ride for me without the need to prove anything to anyone else, I have to assume they feel the same way as well.
 
the Ferret said:
It should be said that there are some truly talented motorcycle pilots that ride the roadways and never venture to a racetrack. Some would probably do well on the track and be quite successful in that environment, but for them it's easier to back their bike out of the garage and ride whenever they feel the urge, for as short or as long as they care to ride and arrive their satisfaction from challenging themselves in the public environment. Not exactly socially acceptable imo, but there are a lot of things people do that are not socially acceptable .. also mo.

I ride for me without the need to prove anything to anyone else, I have to assume they feel the same way as well.
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At our ages, Ferret, we don't need to prove anything. Our goal it to enjoy the time we have left. And not to hasten it any sooner.
 
I'll be 66 in May. Admittedly, I've always sucked at asphalt riding. I came from the motocross world and whatever skills I developed there never really translated to pavement, so I rode accordingly and survived. The last fifteen years or so, I've transitioned to mostly dual-sport riding, currently riding a CRF450L. Usually alone, but sometimes I'll do the rallies - and I can still ride with the A group. For street purposes, I recently sold my last "heavy bike", an FJ-09 and got a new Honda NX500. At this stage in life, it works for me. I intend to ride until I am physically unable or dead, whichever comes first.
 
Being an Illinois person all my life Im use to the flat broad superslab. Very little hill curvey roads here. Most of you guys that have started riding dirt bikes earlier in life tend to do well at taking switch back and hair pin roads at very high speeds. Since I have joined the forum here I find some of you are very good riders at challenging roads. As for me I take these roads at a senior citizen pace plus I want to have time to look around. You never know when you may miss a good looking women in a mini skirt:biggrin:
 
I started racing motocross 8 years after I started street riding, and raced for 10 years while continuing to ride on the street. I always felt street riding made me a better motocross rider and motocross made me a better street rider.
 
ST1100Y said:
Nah! For them loud pipes and high revs equals "fast"...
Everyone with a healthy right hand can tension a throttle cable... on a straight piece of road...
Mountain twisties with barely 20 to 100 yards between corners are the theater for "action" and "dogfights"... ;)
And folks are amazed how agile that old 1100 can be there, either when you're closing in from behind, or they think to hang on your tail, but can't gain enough to get by...
And often enough you meet a fella for some playtime there: I close in, he realize/accepts he can't shake me, waves me to pass to then hang on to find out what this is about... or vice versa, I see one who's trying behind, once the situation permits I let him pass, to then stick behind him... and its always the cornering where my gentle analog braking and early aim into the line gives the advantage...
After the pass-road we greet, part ways, all fair and game...

Of course are there faster riders out, no doubt, local Matadores, been on that mountain a thousand times, knowing every crack, pebble and grass blade sticking out... but you won't feel the skilled ones, they fly by, wave, and are gone... and greet again when you arrive at the top 15~20 seconds after them...

Wannabees are dangerous though, desperate, too close, risky passing... often enough I almost rear end some over them getting their rear wheel like 10" off my front... forcing me on the brakes right in the center of a back-sweep and such... not cool folks...
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Power is nothing without control... - Pirelli

It's why we constantly encourage the new riders to hone their skills at the racetrack. I suspect our local canyon roads are not that different from your mountain roads. There are very few areas where a mistake isn't catastrophic. It is frequented by a lot of wannabe boy racers and YouTube/Instagram posers. The fast-ish guys are dragging knee and disappear, the really fast guys ride quickly but save the dogfights for the track. I haven't taken the ST up there yet, and when I do, it will be at a brisk pace, no more. If my brain/ego decides to let the younger hooligan in me out, I suspect I'll run out of ground clearance (already have), tire, or both. I am stubborn enough to think that I can make the ST go very quickly, and I'll use the track as a testing ground to get things sorted and for shits/giggles, but I won't delude myself into thinking I can keep up with a fast rider on a properly set-up SuperSport. I may try, but the ST is simply too much bike. Riders being equal, it simply does not have a chance.... won't stop me from trying though ;)
 
DesmoRonin said:
It's why we constantly encourage the new riders to hone their skills at the racetrack.
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Whilst such might enhance your sensoric and trust for and in the motorcycle, has a racetrack style no place on normal roads... no hang-offs, nor knee dragging...
Too many unforeseen variables... if I'm already dragging the peg feelers but find a hump, tar-snake, crack, gravel, cow-pad, whatever... and I would need to correct, are there no reserves left...

An oddity of the ST1100: it needs a passenger, or at least some payload in the panniers... otherwise I always notice some unruhe in the rear...
Trail-braking to "stretch" the mount at the entrance (advantage of non-ABS and ABS-I), preload the drive train in the center, to eliminate the slag when opening it up in the exit...


Of course does the whole "who is the most experienced" also works the other way around:
somewhen in the 90ies I ran into an old R100RT or something, typical white fiberglass fairing, no panniers, tires thin as a pizza-slicer, rider wearing a bleached, white/pink/turquoise leather suit plus a white golf-ball dimpled Schuberth Speed helmet... like a time traveler... ;)
Me, sitting on '2 decades motorcycle engineering later', thought "...ah, bait!..."
Right... I had a hard time staying on that fella... :roflmao:
Fully relaxed, using almost no brakes he carved through there... likely his way to and from work for the past 30 years, he totally owned that road... :biggrin:

Guess now I'm that 'old dude ahead'... ;)
 
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I am an older rider. No way! Back in the day, I enjoyed track weekends and mid week evening practice sessions on my 83 Suzuki GS 1100E at Westwood Raceway...near Coquitlam BC. Mountain High Racing. I still ride my GS 1100E. Westwood now lies beneath residential neighborhoods. Did my track days make me a better street rider? Yes.

With a fine ST in my stable, and a variety of 'roads' here in California I find that with my two ancient machines there is, depending on my choice, ...for me...A perfect bike for a perfect road.

This 22 minute vid....... trackday....maybe some have seen.... ST 1300 at {formerly} SIR..... Pacific Raceway Kent Washington 2020..... I think this machine and rider......far from perfect.....but the tilting horizon and sweet sounds.....gotta bring a smile.

 
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ST1100Y said:
Whilst such might enhance your sensoric and trust for and in the motorcycle, has a racetrack style no place on normal roads... no hang-offs, nor knee dragging...
Too many unforeseen variables... if I'm already dragging the peg feelers but find a hump, tar-snake, crack, gravel, cow-pad, whatever... and I would need to correct, are there no reserves left...

An oddity of the ST1100: it needs a passenger, or at least some payload in the panniers... otherwise I always notice some unruhe in the rear...
Trail-braking to "stretch" the mount at the entrance (advantage of non-ABS and ABS-I), preload the drive train in the center, to eliminate the slag when opening it up in the exit...


Of course does the whole "who is the most experienced" also works the other way around:
somewhen in the 90ies I ran into an old R100RT or something, typical white fiberglass fairing, no panniers, tires thin as a pizza-slicer, rider wearing a bleached, white/pink/turquoise leather suit plus a white golf-ball dimpled Schuberth Speed helmet... like a time traveler... ;)
Me, sitting on '2 decades motorcycle engineering later', thought "...ah, bait!..."
Right... I had a hard time staying on that fella... :roflmao:
Fully relaxed, using almost no brakes he carved through there... likely his way to and from work for the past 30 years, he totally owned that road... :biggrin:

Guess now I'm that 'old dude ahead'... ;)
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As I stated, the really fast guys don't ride that way on the street. Despite most of them being young, they have nothing to prove... they know they are fast, yet they know they are not... there is always someone faster. One of their occasional riding buddies is a multi-national champion and former Moto2 racer... no one is going to ride at his level, but it's rather moot. He doesn't ride that way on the street. They ride quickly, but more of a fun quick pace. The fast-ish guys are like the aforementioned nephew and company. I'm sure they are plenty fast, but they are riding at 9/10's as opposed to the really fast guys who are riding at half speed. As mentioned previously, fast on the street is usually slow at the track. The track is a place where the fast-ish riders can hone your skills, without road distractions, with plenty of runoff room, and an ambulance on premises. This is why we ecourage them to visit the track. IF a rider wants to write a fast-pace check that his skills can't cash, the street is not the place to do it or test it... and they tend to write a lot of those checks ;)

I'm no instructor, but I see riders, both new and seasoned, make small mistakes all the time on the road, especially when riding above legal speeds. I think we are all guilty of this. I cannot control the actions of others, but I can do my best to lead by example, so I ride fairly tamely on the street. I was a bit of a hooligan in my youth, but maturity (or so I tell myself, lol), has made me realize that my many years and many miles of riding do not necessarily make me a better rider than those who have less years/miles, just a more experienced one who has gained a strong sense of "time and place."

FWIW, I hang off a little bit fairly often, but never drag knee on the street (neither do the really fast guys)... just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I do it to keep the bike more upright, and it virtually eliminates ground clearance issues on certain bikes, ST included. I do it on my road bicycle too, also to keep the bike more upright around sharper corners. I don't trail brake often on the street... too many blind corners (where a canyon wall or steep drop off) will reward my error with a Red Bull Flugtag flight should there be a stopped car, cyclist, or rockslide awaiting me. At the track, game on. But there is obviously a lot more visibility and margin for error.

I, too, have been on both sides of the R100RT rider you mentioned. Fast is fast... it's always more impressive when that rider smoking you is on old tech, more so when he is on old bones, lol.

OLD
GUYS
RULE!
 
Grand Rouge said:
I am an older rider. No way! Back in the day, I enjoyed track weekends and mid week evening practice sessions on my 83 Suzuki GS 1100E at Westwood Raceway...near Coquitlam BC. Mountain High Racing. I still ride my GS 1100E. Westwood now lies beneath residential neighborhoods. Did my track days make me a better street rider? Yes.

With a fine ST in my stable, and a variety of 'roads' here in California I find that with my two ancient machines there is, depending on my choice, ...for me...A perfect bike for a perfect road.

This 22 minute vid....... trackday....maybe some have seen.... ST 1300 at {formerly} SIR..... Pacific Raceway Kent Washington 2020..... I think this machine and rider......far from perfect.....but the tilting horizon and sweet sounds.....gotta bring a smile.

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I'm confused. you're old and fast? Some say that's not possible.

I've seen your video before I'm set to watch it again.
 
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Grand Rouge said:
I am an older rider. No way! Back in the day, I enjoyed track weekends and mid week evening practice sessions on my 83 Suzuki GS 1100E at Westwood Raceway...near Coquitlam BC. Mountain High Racing. I still ride my GS 1100E. Westwood now lies beneath residential neighborhoods. Did my track days make me a better street rider? Yes.

With a fine ST in my stable, and a variety of 'roads' here in California I find that with my two ancient machines there is, depending on my choice, ...for me...A perfect bike for a perfect road.

This 22 minute vid....... trackday....maybe some have seen.... ST 1300 at {formerly} SIR..... Pacific Raceway Kent Washington 2020..... I think this machine and rider......far from perfect.....but the tilting horizon and sweet sounds.....gotta bring a smile.

Click to expand...
Outstanding! Planning on doing the same with the ST1100 (but with bags off) after getting it sorted. Tentatively, Buttonwillow, or The Ridge.
 
W0QNX said:
I'm confused. you're old and fast? Some say that's not possible.

I've seen your video before I'm set to watch it again.
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Oh it's possible but not very often ... on the street. ;)
The track is whole different deal.
I've often told those who think they are fast on the street to go watch pro racers on the track. :biggrin:
It's a different 'universe'.
 
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Uncle Phil said:
Oh it's possible but not very often ... on the street. ;)
The track is whole different deal.
I've often told those who think they are fast on the street to go watch pro racers on the track. :biggrin:
It's a different 'universe'.
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It really is...

Dario Marchetti, 62yo, ex-pro roadracer, friend/mentor/coach, and Director of Ducati Riders Experience. I'm not fast, but I'm far from slow... until Dario passes me (while reading a newspaper and having an espresso, lol) as if I was going backwards.
 
A fast man on the track knows the track is pretty predictable and the street is not. ;)
I've been told more than once I am one of the safest 'fast' riders they have ever seen.
I don't rush over a hilltop or around blind curves.
As one rider said 'When you can see the lay of the land, I don't see you very long!'
But I am nowhere near as fast as a 'regular' track guy.
And as I get older and realize that my reflexes are slowing and my physical strength is diminishing, I have had to slow down.
Most riders that have ridden a long time get 'caught out' - either lack of attention or unexpected things happen.
The question becomes 'Do you have the time, space, ability and strength to get back in?'
When I had to have both shoulders replaced (one in 21 and one in 22) I lost about 70% of my upper body strength.
You can only put so much 'pressure' on shoulder placements before bad things start to happen ...
I still lift weights and am very physically active but it is very difficult to regain that much of a loss.
And with ST1100s, you don't 'flick' it you 'fling' it and upper body strength is very important in the process. ;)
I remember in the NC mountains I would occasionally run into an elderly rider on a yellow VFR (old style) with full racing leathers.
Off the bike he could hardly move around, but once he swung a leg over that thing, he was like a young man on a rocket. :biggrin:
 
Not really a fist rider myself. I have more fun going slow and taking it easy, in the mountains the curve is my drug and I love to turn the engine off and just coast down, it´s the closest thing to flying I can imagine, it does mean however that from time to time I get overtaken by cyclists.
It´t only on occasion that I will open the taps on the Autobahn and see how fast my 11 goes.
 
I've thought about doing a track day, but I think I'll pass. I know myself too well. When I hit a series of corners, I want to speed up, not slow down. The temptation would be to ride at 9/10ths and venture into 11/10ths. Oops. :eek:

And while I realistically can afford it, my cheap soul says I don't have a "sponsor" to pay the bills. I'd end up like this guy from the video.

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I've also come to the realization like Uncle Phil that my reflexes are slowing down. I'm nowhere close (I hope!) to quitting riding. But I'm also smart enough to realize that the riding I used to do is no longer what I want to do.

Chris
 
Without a radar gun, speed is very subjective.
Usually we will find the fastest riders are very, very smooth... remarkably so.
In fact, the quicker riders may appear deceptively slower because there is little or no drama, all their movements look to be relaxed.
Rider trainers are often heard to say, "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast."
Meaning work on being smooth and proficient, with even the most rudimentary actions.... shifting, breaking, accelerating, turning... speed canl come with being smooth, but of course you can still be smooth at reduced speeds.
I agree with earlier comments... I don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone.
 
Amateurs. My moving average is 225 mph.

:wink-2x:


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