older riders

ST1100Y said:
Huh?!
Normally within a formation the most experienced rider is in the lead...
Besides navigation he's distracted by checking his mirrors, has to plan/think ahead on how and were to maneuver that motorcade behind...
Any noobs or notoriously slow riders should be placed right behind the leader, as they are determining the speed...
The further back, the faster you'll have to be able to ride... anyone beyond the 3rd or 4th position has to really wring it, when they up front passed 2~3 cars you'll have to see how to keep up...
the sweeper at the end then should be technically able to pass the entire group if required for any reason... old and slow... yeah-right... :roflmao:
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You are correct.

Not a justification, but our group is rather small, 4-6 riders, usually sport bikes, with most riders young enough to be my children (and even grandchildren at times). The lead guys are fast roadracers with no intention of running at Grandpa's Pace. Of course, they tone it way down for the street, and we ride in a group to the twisties, but they do run at a healthy clip that the rest cannot without riding over their heads. I'm in the back with the slower riders to babysit, lol. I actually watch their inputs/outputs as a silent coach, if you will. And as a nanny, in case there is an offroad excursion. And in some cases, I'll pull ahead of an occasional new rider and run a pace where they can watch my lines and body position.

On the ST, I ride alone. :cry: lol I've never had a not-fast bike/sport touring bike and almost all of my rider friends are track only, have given up riding, or live on the opposite coast or your part of the world. I'm contemplating on getting an inexpensive ADV or ST bike and leaving it in Gyor (family) or Bologna (friends/family), but even then, it would be a group of 2, maybe 3, riders.
 
DesmoRonin said:
You are correct.

Not a justification, but our group is rather small, 4-6 riders, usually sport bikes, with most riders young enough to be my children (and even grandchildren at times). The lead guys are fast roadracers with no intention of running at Grandpa's Pace. Of course, they tone it way down for the street, and we ride in a group to the twisties, but they do run at a healthy clip that the rest cannot without riding over their heads. I'm in the back with the slower riders to babysit, lol. I actually watch their inputs/outputs as a silent coach, if you will. And as a nanny, in case there is an offroad excursion. And in some cases, I'll pull ahead of an occasional new rider and run a pace where they can watch my lines and body position.

On the ST, I ride alone. :cry: lol I've never had a not-fast bike/sport touring bike and almost all of my rider friends are track only, have given up riding, or live on the opposite coast or your part of the world. I'm contemplating on getting an inexpensive ADV or ST bike and leaving it in Gyor (family) or Bologna (friends/family), but even then, it would be a group of 2, maybe 3, riders.
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Interesting...
Ran with an MC for a while, mostly sport-bikes...
At the end they liked having me up front, a steady, fluid, constant pace of 100~120kph/60~75mph top through narrow mountain twisties, tailed by bunch of screaming power-ranges battling each other to keep up and in formation... :biggrin:
Fellas on Fireblades, VTR's, XX's sometimes even a bit peeved while shaking and stretching their wrists "...you fly up there as if you're on a mountain-bike, while I have to work hard around those tight back-sweeps..."
Our sweeper, on a 'Busa OTOH: "...nice, keep going..."
Right, the SC26 plant pulls from 1200rpm on = hairpin uphill 2nd gear... try that with a CBR which is barely alive below 6000...
But I too learned a lot while running with that group, focus, continuous "on the pull", etc...
 
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the Ferret said:
At one of the Oh-STocs I was a bread crumb and waited over 30 mins at an intersection for the last riders to come thru. They must have stopped for a drink or something. I nearly gave up waiting for them.
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I once grow quite peeved over such... :cautious:
Leading 4 ST's behind me through alpine terrain, you constantly check your mirrors after every passing or turn (which is already stressful enough...)
Suddenly #4 & #5 are gone... me pulling over running back to #3 "Where are the others?!!" ... shrug, don't know... ooch! "Wait here!!"...
Me, U-turn, riding back like 3 miles... expecting the worst, but no skid-marks, no debris, nothing... another u-turn, back in the original direction, I spot something red through the bushes... the parking lot of a pub... pfffff...
With two beers(!) in front they prompted "... well, we were thirsty and you didn't stop ..."... grrrrr... :mad:

I took off (with smoldering tire...), picked up the other two waiting in the heat and continued to the original destination...

Ask me again why I don't like group rides... :rolleyes:
 
ST1100Y said:
Interesting...
Ran with an MC for a while, mostly sport-bikes...
At the end they liked having me up front, a steady, fluid, constant pace of 100~120kph/60~75mph top through narrow mountain twisties, tailed by bunch of screaming power-ranges battling each other to keep up and in formation... :biggrin:
Fellas on Fireblades, VTR's, XX's sometimes even a bit peeved while shaking and stretching their wrists "...you fly up there as if you're on a mountain-bike, while I have work hard around those tight back-sweeps..."
Our sweeper, on a 'Busa OTOH: "...nice, keep going..."
Right, the SC26 plant pulls from 1200rpm on = hairpin uphill 2nd gear... try that with a CBR which is barely alive below 6000...
But I too learned a lot while running with that group, focus, continuous "on the pull", etc...
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Fast is fast... doesn't matter what you're on, no? ;)

I rarely try to keep up nowadays. The fastest guy is less than a second off of MotoAmerica racer pace and often rides with the MotoAmerica champion and this year's Daytona 200 winner. Even at "safe" street pace, he is far from slow. And they're on sub-400 lb. 200hp+ V2 and V4 Italian bikes so the lack of midrange grunt is rarely an issue. Scarily, they are unimpressed with bikes like the 'Busa, XX's, and H2's. Kids... :rolleyes: lol
 
Lots of groups ride up wolf creek here. Its nice to sit outside at kips, have a beer and watch them go by. Following them js crazy. Lots of acceleration and braking.
I ride some w three other guys. We do odd things like wear helmets and safety gear. We r older and leave a lot of space. Sober too! Even with them, i cover my butt!
 
lol I have a nephew who rides scary fast. We call him "2-turns", because that's all we saw him for.

We actually do a men's lunch & ride every Thursday weather permitting (me, my son, my younger brother, 2 of my nephews and my son's FIL) plus a "Men's Fall Trip" every year (se Ohio, W Va, central Ky, North Carolina etc). Said nephew ( "2-turns"), will meet us for lunch, but won't go on the rides afterwards or the Men's Fall Trip because the rest of us ride too slow for him. Says it puts him to sleep. He rides with a group who have named themselves The Asphalt Junkies and they all ride sport bikes like the roads are Moto GP's and somebody usually wads one up every other weekend or so. So far "2-turns" has been lucky, but I can't see how his luck will continue. If he ever does go down, he'll find something/someone to blame it on, it won't be "his fault" if you get my drift. He has even said 'I refuse to go down" lol. We'll see ...................
 
the Ferret said:
lol I have a nephew who rides scary fast. We call him "2-turns", because that's all we saw him for.

We actually do a men's lunch & ride every Thursday weather permitting (me, my son, my younger brother, 2 of my nephews and my son's FIL) plus a "Men's Fall Trip" every year (se Ohio, W Va, central Ky, North Carolina etc). Said nephew ( "2-turns"), will meet us for lunch, but won't go on the rides afterwards or the Men's Fall Trip because the rest of us ride too slow for him. Says it puts him to sleep. He rides with a group who have named themselves The Asphalt Junkies and they all ride sport bikes like the roads are Moto GP's and somebody usually wads one up every other weekend or so. So far "2-turns" has been lucky, but I can't see how his luck will continue. If he ever does go down, he'll find something/someone to blame it on, it won't be "his fault" if you get my drift. He has even said 'I refuse to go down" lol. We'll see ...................
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As I have said - Those that ride at 9/10s most of the time will sooner or later run out of 'tenths'! ;)
 
the Ferret said:
lol I have a nephew who rides scary fast. We call him "2-turns", because that's all we saw him for.

We actually do a men's lunch & ride every Thursday weather permitting (me, my son, my younger brother, 2 of my nephews and my son's FIL) plus a "Men's Fall Trip" every year (se Ohio, W Va, central Ky, North Carolina etc). Said nephew ( "2-turns"), will meet us for lunch, but won't go on the rides afterwards or the Men's Fall Trip because the rest of us ride too slow for him. Says it puts him to sleep. He rides with a group who have named themselves The Asphalt Junkies and they all ride sport bikes like the roads are Moto GP's and somebody usually wads one up every other weekend or so. So far "2-turns" has been lucky, but I can't see how his luck will continue. If he ever does go down, he'll find something/someone to blame it on, it won't be "his fault" if you get my drift. He has even said 'I refuse to go down" lol. We'll see ...................
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Do 2-turns and The Asphalt Junkies attend trackdays? My son and his friends (the lead riders) slowed down a LOT on the street when they started doing them, especially after realizing fast on the street is still slow on the track and the risks weren't worth it. It's a game changer for most.
 
ST1100Y said:
Well, assuming proper suspension & tires, the possible, still "safe" cornering speed on public roads is pretty much equal for all...
be it a 2-cyl 500 or some hyper-sport...
Entrance, line and exit make the difference...
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Unfortunately, a lot of the younger riders (myself included back in the day) learn this the hard way. As a more mature rider, I've done my fair share of embarrassing the "fast" literbike guys aboard a 50-hp KTM Duke II, even through the fast sweepers. Nowadays, I'm a bit more of a voyeur than an exhibitionist ;)
 
DesmoRonin said:
Do 2-turns and The Asphalt Junkies attend trackdays? My son and his friends (the lead riders) slowed down a LOT on the street when they started doing them, especially after realizing fast on the street is still slow on the track and the risks weren't worth it. It's a game changer for most.
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Heavens no...then they would find out how slow they really are. Like you said there is street fast and then there is race track fast. These kids are happy BELIEVING they are fast , rather than FINDING OUT they are not.
 
the Ferret said:
Heavens no...then they would find out how slow they really are. Like you said there is street fast and then there is race track fast. These kids are happy BELIEVING they are fast , rather than FINDING OUT they are not.
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The most dangerous (and endangered) man is the man who doesn't know what he doesn't know ... ;)
 
Pop-Pop said:
Lots of groups ride up wolf creek here. Its nice to sit outside at kips, have a beer and watch them go by. Following them js crazy. Lots of acceleration and braking.
I ride some w three other guys. We do odd things like wear helmets and safety gear. We r older and leave a lot of space. Sober too! Even with them, i cover my butt!
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Yes I enjoyed that too. Sitting on the Deck of KIPS with a beer and a burger watching the girls, oops I mean bikes go by. Always enjoyed that when in Pagosa Springs.
 
DesmoRonin said:
Do 2-turns and The Asphalt Junkies attend trackdays?
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Nah! For them loud pipes and high revs equals "fast"...
Everyone with a healthy right hand can tension a throttle cable... on a straight piece of road...
Mountain twisties with barely 20 to 100 yards between corners are the theater for "action" and "dogfights"... ;)
And folks are amazed how agile that old 1100 can be there, either when you're closing in from behind, or they think to hang on your tail, but can't gain enough to get by...
And often enough you meet a fella for some playtime there: I close in, he realize/accepts he can't shake me, waves me to pass to then hang on to find out what this is about... or vice versa, I see one who's trying behind, once the situation permits I let him pass, to then stick behind him... and its always the cornering where my gentle analog braking and early aim into the line gives the advantage...
After the pass-road we greet, part ways, all fair and game...

Of course are there faster riders out, no doubt, local Matadores, been on that mountain a thousand times, knowing every crack, pebble and grass blade sticking out... but you won't feel the skilled ones, they fly by, wave, and are gone... and greet again when you arrive at the top 15~20 seconds after them...

Wannabees are dangerous though, desperate, too close, risky passing... often enough I almost rear end some over them getting their rear wheel like 10" off my front... forcing me on the brakes right in the center of a back-sweep and such... not cool folks...
 
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