Is the classic sport-touring motorcycle doomed to extinction?

Mellow said:
That is interesting... I love the sound when in the twisties and the bike is revving high, I feel it really sings... but, I'm sure I wouldn't say the same about every other bike out there.
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That was an interesting comment in #356. Many opin that Hondas have no soul, no character, no rough edges. I disagree heartily with that. Honda's character is refinement to the nth degree - nothing in the motor overtly intrudes on the rider experience. Millions of yen went into the V4s and it 'doesn't show' so to speak. Myself, after 5 decades of riding motorcycles have come to a place where I don't mind some intrusion and have come to prefer twins as my favorite number of cylinders. A boxer twin thrums a pleasant song and along with the the pulsing cadence of the NC these are just the right amount of reminder I'm riding two wheels, a seat, and an engine.
 
Donk said:
Soul? Wait til you hear a MOTO GUZZI V100! It defines the word when talking about motorcycle sound.
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Used to be that a set of Termignonis were essential to Italian character. What is the preferred method these days?
 
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My son has Termignonis on his Ducati Monster

Sound has absoluetly no meaning to me. I prefer slipping thru the wind with no sound. An electric bikes whirring is too loud for me.

Same goes for engine vibes. The smoother the better for me. The thing I dislike most about my NC 750 is that 270 degree throb.
 
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Sadlsor said:
"The RT1200/1250 is probably the better machine, but you'll pay for it, and as far as my ears are concerned, boxer twins don't have any soul."

@Arellcat i was actually pleasantly surprised at the growl emanating from my 1250 GSA when I jumped on that loud handle. But I rarely do that. In most modes (depending on settings) a sudden twist of the wrist will find the front wheel reaching for the clouds.

As for "having no soul", I've heard that about some of my favorite Hondas through the years. I am not one who feels the need for everyone around me to hear my motorcycle.

But I'll admit, it's always good to be seen when we're on the roads.
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An ST1100 has the most boring sound in the world. Sounds like a Cuisinart food processor. The younger me had "performance" exhaust on, well, everything. But the drone gets old. Or I got old. Either way, I've toned down almost all of the vehicles now. I the ST exhaust is in need of replacement, Delkevic is the only choice really. Dunno what they sound like, hopefully not too loud. Don't mind mellow, but if it drones I won't be able to stand it. And I don't really want to wake the neighborhood either.
 
What is a "soul" or the "character" everyone is raving about?
The way I see it, it is something different from the rest where you find that "thing" in your eyes (or ears). Not nessasery positive nor something negative, yet unorthodox. A fetish if you will.
That's all cool and all. Enjoy it.

When I hear "that bike has a character" I immediately think "what's wrong with it?".
Not in a bad way. Maybe not "wrong" per se, but different.

Yet, to those who say that this or the other bike has no character... Ummm, maybe not everyone likes their "fetish". (Disclaimer: not a bad word).
Maybe no "character" is a character in itself?
 
rwthomas1 said:
Don't mind mellow, but if it drones I won't be able to stand it. And I don't really want to wake the neighborhood either.
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I'm with you, I like an "unobtrusive" sound while riding... but when I use the right wrist, the ST and GSA both let you know there's a motor in there.

Loud pipes? I've never grown a fondness for them, and my ears haven't either.
 
After running the old Brit bikes for a few years (BSA, Triumph) I jumped at a ST1100 when a reviewer said -
"They just don't have any 'character' - they just do everything pretty well".
After Amal 'wash your hands with gas' carbs, Lucas 'prince of darkness' electrics, and other assorted 'characters', I've adapted to ST1100s quite well. :biggrin:
 
I've had friends with " character bikes" (I won't name brands, but they are usually of Italian descent...and sometimes Austrian lol) tell me you have to expect to have minor problems and have little issues to deal with occassionally, it's part of the package. Which is why I usually ride souless bikes (usually of Japanese heritage lol), the reason being I dont want to deal with problems and issues. I'm a rider, not a mechanic. I just want to turn the key, have the bike start, go for a ride, and return to my garage at the end of the ride, and then repeat the next day.

I know there is no guarantee that that I wont have an issue with my souless bikes, but so far it has worked out pretty well. In 59 years, I've never had a Honda not bring me home, even when the SMC failed on my ST after 110,000 previously trouble free miles, I was still able to limp it home.
 
I feel the same way. My 2014 BMW F800GT was one of those "soulless" bikes. On my first long day trip, I was headed up to Hurricane Ridge on the Olympic Peninsula. I came up to the outskirts of a town called Sequim that is known for its speed traps. Off to the right, I saw two highway patrol cars. I glanced down at my speedometer, thinking I might be doing about 62 mph in a 55. No sweat, but I didn't want a ticket. You can imagine my horror and shock to see that I was doing 90 mph!!!

No character on that bike...it just did everything well. Exceptionally well.

Chris
 
I would say that I had had enough of "character" with my 1975 Norton Commando 850, but will also gladly say that the Blackbird had character, but in a much more tolerable manner. The Snortin' Norton sat in a sultry, obstinate, "not feelin' it and I ain't a-gonna start or run today" state of disdain toward me, more than it saw road duty.

Lucas-Prince-Of-Darkness electrics, indeed.

In stark contrast, the XX was quick and fast, good-looking in my eyes, smooth and dreamy ride, handled exceptionally well at all speeds, and it just raised my heart rate every time I swung a leg over it.

And except for that one time the regulator/rectifier ate my battery (known issue with the early Blackbirds and VFRs), it started every time I pressed the button.
 
dduelin said:
Used to be that a set of Termignoni's were essential to Italian character. What is the preferred method these days?
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Stock works for me. I think Minstrel is popular on Guzzi but I'm no expert. I had Termis on my '13 Multistrada, they even had their own ECU tune. They did sound great and I always kept the baffles in. I haven't done loud since the Kerker header on my '74 750 Four. A motor doesn't need a loud exhaust to sound good and a loud exhaust certainly can't make an engine sound any better than its design.
 
dwalby said:
Those of us who prefer to ride over driving anyway are becoming more rare every year.
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(Finally I get to jump into this thread.)

Yes, I do like to ride more than I like to drive. Over 100,000 miles riding in the last 2 years and maybe 10,000 driving during the same time period.
 
the Ferret said:
I've had friends with " character bikes" (I won't name brands, but they are usually of Italian descent...and sometimes Austrian lol) tell me you have to expect to have minor problems and have little issues to deal with occassionally, it's part of the package.
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Excuse the words little and occasionally...
bikes with character are classified by:
- reluctant to start
- like to stall, cold or warm
- reluctant on the throttle/occasional cough/retarding under load/opening up
- floating clutch engagement
- floating brake pressure points
- have to be wrestled around corners
- tendency for head-shake depending on weather, air pressure and/or the basal temperature of your pillion
- accommodating a variety of electrical gremlins

Besides this an ST lacks "character"... totally... boring and dull... a bit like a VCR/BD-player... just press ON and go...
 
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Sadlsor said:
I would say that I had had enough of "character" with my 1975 Norton Commando 850, but will also gladly say that the Blackbird had character, but in a much more tolerable manner. The Snortin' Norton sat in a sultry, obstinate, "not feelin' it and I ain't a-gonna start or run today" state of disdain toward me, more than it saw road duty.

Lucas-Prince-Of-Darkness electrics, indeed.

In stark contrast, the XX was quick and fast, good-looking in my eyes, smooth and dreamy ride, handled exceptionally well at all speeds, and it just raised my heart rate every time I swung a leg over it.

And except for that one time the regulator/rectifier ate my battery (known issue with the early Blackbirds and VFRs), it started every time I pressed the button.
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But go on, admit it, when that Norton did start and run, was there a better sound on earth? No thought not. A Commando with standard pipes wasn't half a thing of beauty.
Until it stopped again of course.
 
Can't tell you about the sound, Ray. I remember, much more clearly, all the days I couldn't ride because it was in my garage or in the shop in a non-running or partially disassembled condition, much more than the sound of it running.

Yes, it was a looker, I won't deny that, but I grew weary looking at it parked because it wouldn't start or run.

However I do recall enjoying the quirky starting procedure, tickling the carbs, and backwards shifting, and it was pleasant enough to ride. On those few occasions when it would run.

So these are my vague recollections, after nearly 50 years have passed.

So yeah, according to Martin's definition, that bastard had character in spades.
 
"character" can be a euphemism for flaws or lack of reliability. Or it can mean a more visceral experience.

I have a ST1300 and a 2022 Triumph Bonneville. For longer trips or highways, I take the ST for comfort, wind protection, smoothness and linear power. It's an awesome mile cruncher.

For more local rides, I take the naked Bonny because it's a much more visceral experience with a nice exhaust note, low frequency/not-quite-annoying vibration, awesome low rpm torque and unobstructed view with wind. That's the kind of character that the ST lacks. Sure, it's awful on highways, not great for long rides, 2-up or grocery trips, but I do enjoy its character for a couple of hours on county roads... oh yeah, and it's reliable.
 
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