CA Fires ...

I'll readily agree with your first statement.
And I'll just let the second claim go.
Well, not quite... I believe we have damaged some environments, and helped others.
I will say, we can be more considerate - to a large extent - in our building, growth and development - but environmentalists can take it to the extreme. Both sides can, for that matter.
 
Unfortunately discussing climate change has become akin to discussing religion. It is difficult to have a meaningful reasoned debate about it because minds have been made up and closed on both sides of the issue.
 
Cheers to open minds.
When I lived in southern CA the Santa Anas were an autumn wind; now they will blow/exterminate all year. Fwiw.
 
The earliest known wildfire in California history was the Santiago Canyon Fire of 1889. It burned around 300,000 acres in parts of Orange County, San Diego County, and Riverside County

I’m sure this was caused by fossil fuel emissions.
 
Nashcat said:
The earliest known wildfire in California history was the Santiago Canyon Fire of 1889. It burned around 300,000 acres in parts of Orange County, San Diego County, and Riverside County

I’m sure this was caused by fossil fuel emissions.
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There have always been fires and and floods and drought and famine caused by climate change, some of the Indigenous people in South America were wiped out by a changing climate and whole stretches of west Africa must have seen a depopulation event around a thousand years ago.
But these were single events and spikes, what we are having now is increased frequency of such events, they are stronger and more destructive in their nature than anything we have seen before.
And they are on a global scale-.
 
Mondo said:
Unfortunately, this will continue as long as tens of thousands of homes continue to be built in what is essentially scrub brush desert for much of the year.

Greg
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People are going to live where they want to live. Unfortunately they are not accepting the costs of mitigating damage and prioritizing the easily foreseeable price of those decisions. In this case, firefighting manpower, equipment, and resources (water) seem to be woefully lacking considering the historical threat.

Arguing about climate and spending funds on social change is easier than actually filling reservoirs and preparing for fighting fires. ;)

Tom
 
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I wonder why all the folks that are so concerned with global warming and climate change are still riding around with ICE cars? Why aren't they doing their part and just riding bicycles?
The earth has had ice ages that were eventually replaced with global warming melting that. I'm more inclined to believe that it's just cycles in the life of the earth. YVMV.
 
st11ray said:
I wonder why all the folks that are so concerned with global warming and climate change are still riding around with ICE cars? Why aren't they doing their part and just riding bicycles?
The earth has had ice ages that were eventually replaced with global warming melting that. I'm more inclined to believe that it's just cycles in the life of the earth. YVMV.
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From now on the point is moot, Caused by us.... (the isotopes in the atmosphere prove it) or natural causes is no longer the question.
The question is what are we going to do about it. There has never been a civilization on this planet that is so dependent on a stable climate to flourish and we are not altogether sure about the mechanisms involved. So until we are sure then perhaps we should not be fiddling with the Thermostat.
But one thing you can be sure about, this is a global problem, not just and American one or a European one or Asian and we have to begin to think globally, otherwise our society is in danger of collapsing like the others before us.
 
st11ray said:
I wonder why all the folks that are so concerned with global warming and climate change are still riding around with ICE cars? Why aren't they doing their part and just riding bicycles?
The earth has had ice ages that were eventually replaced with global warming melting that. I'm more inclined to believe that it's just cycles in the life of the earth. YVMV.
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I was going to let this go, but your @st11ray comment just set this up so well.

1736711902614.png

The first paragraph makes lots of sense. The Athabasca glacier has advanced and receded many times over the last 8000 years.

The second paragraph says it is happening because of greenhouse gases, i.e., Global Warming...caused by man, obviously. It seems to me that the conclusion is that man is at fault...even though the Model T wasn't being used 8000 years ago. But I shouldn't question that, because that is disinformation...and common sense.

Closer to home, we have Dry Falls. Per Wikipedia, twenty thousand years ago...
According to the current geological model, catastrophic flooding channeled water at 65 miles per hour (105 kph) through the Upper Grand Coulee and over this 400-foot (120 m) rock face at the end of the last glaciation. It is estimated that the falls were five times the width of Niagara Falls,[2]: 116  with ten times the flow of all the current rivers in the world combined.[3]
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Climate change is real. It's been happening for thousands of years since the dawn of time...and it'll continue to happen long after man is gone.

Climate Change and Global Warming had nothing to do with the LA fires. Incompetence and not holding elected officials accountable was the cause.

www.independentsentinel.com

California Knew About the Hydrant Problem by 1962

Gavin Newsom invited Donald Trump to California. One must wonder if President Trump will get the same glorious reception that President Xi
www.independentsentinel.com www.independentsentinel.com

A nervous Gavin Newsom will conduct an investigation, but he should have known what could happen, or his employees should have known since they knew in 1959. The 1962 documentary, near the end, explains the problem.
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They've known about the hydrant problem for 6 decades...and done nothing.

They've been sending the rain water out to the ocean instead of into reservoirs to save the smelt. And it turns out the smelt haven't been seen in years.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

The Infamous Delta Smelt Fish Has Not Been Seen in Nearly a Decade - California Allowed Its Cities to Burn to the Ground Over a Fish That They Can't Even Find Anymore | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hoft

California's controversial water policies have sparked a devastating debate as cities burn while the elusive ta Smelt remains unaccounted for. Discover the troubling implications of this environmental dilemma.
www.thegatewaypundit.com www.thegatewaypundit.com

And I have to wonder how much the cause of the fires was from inviting criminals into the area.
pjmedia.com

Fed Scientist Rejects ‘Climate Change’ as Fueling L.A. Fires, as Arson Reports Surface

pjmedia.com pjmedia.com

Chris
 
Slammer said:
But one thing you can be sure about, this is a global problem, not just and American one or a European one or Asian and we have to begin to think globally, otherwise our society is in danger of collapsing like the others before us.
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Since the Garden of Eden, there never has been a global "society" and there probably never will be another one. That said it might be argued that in the "big picture" long run, every society has been naturally replaced by a new, improved version of the old one.

We agree about the point being moot though. Moot: having little or no practical relevance, typically because the subject is too uncertain to allow a decision.

Tom
 
Slammer said:
otherwise our society is in danger of collapsing like the others before us.
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What makes you to think that you know how other civilizations collapsed? You can earn a Nobel price.
Maybe western European countries should concentrate on more important issues. Example Britain but many more.The good thing is that the Eastern block still retain their common sense.
 
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You know fellers, we can debate/hash/rehash/argue climate change/global warming ad nauseum.
What we should be doing is sending good thoughts and if you be of the mind, lifting up prayers for the folks out there that have lost everything.
And if you can, donating the Red Cross who seem to be trying to help those folks from what I understand.
From what I read some did not have fire insurance as it had been cancelled.
The celebrities will be fine - they'll just write another check.
But some folks who lived there are elderly or had inherited their parent's homes and they will not be able to rebuild because of the costs.
One feller ignored the evacuation, got a bigger hose and somehow managed to save his house and his neighbor's houses on either side.
His words 'This is all I've got - it was my parent's house. If it burned, I knew I'd never be able to afford to rebuild'.
And don't forget - while you are thinking/praying - about the folks in North Carolina who some are currently living in tents as they try to recover from Helene.
 
Nashcat said:
The earliest known wildfire in California history was the Santiago Canyon Fire of 1889. It burned around 300,000 acres in parts of Orange County, San Diego County, and Riverside County

I’m sure this was caused by fossil fuel emissions.
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It's a travesty that Fred Flintstone had fire for cooking those sabertooth ribs!! He melted all thoe glacers just for a meal.
 
Some of those arial shots depict small equally spaced streets and avenues; people that paid the thrills, bills, the pills, well, you know the rest of the song, point being not all these guys are Mel Gibson. These are going to be the claims that test the private insurance model. My guess is that the situation will be akin to the Freddie Mae and Fanny Mac, complete with similar bonuses. Vast sums of money are [have been] moving as we speak.
Having lived in Alberta with private car insurance; I never blow an oportunity to slam the situation where a society compels an individual to purchase a service or product [excuse me while I blow snot over my keyboard] only available in the free market.
In Canada the goal for any private company is to become an income trust; which is what the real underwriters are now.
I worked for Empire theatres as a contractor during their two-phase transition to what is now the monopoly. I remember fixing ice machines and air conditioners for independent operators during the time when smaller theatres were starved of new releases and effectly starved out of their operations [and not on the basis of cost].
I appreciate this isn't a political forum, and there's a lot of tolleration [especially for me, my comments on facebook got deleted when I said that only 1/6 of the money on your gas bill was to pay for the gas... but I digress... but... I'm a gas fitter!] but it does get hard.
 
There is NO crisis. Yes follow the money.

Do the math. They did not.

I am not a climate denier, I am a climate refuter.

Speculations, backed by computer models, is not science.
Consensus of the fooled, settles nothing.
Scientist believe -- is not proof of anything.
Carefully read their documents, it is a testament of their ignorance.
They ignore reality.

It is what they left out, that refutes their fairy tale.
Their climate theory's fail reality tests.

Co2 (at 10-6) does not have enough thermal mass to affect our climate temperature one bit.
They even admit this. "If we achieve net zero it will take many, many years for the climate to recover....."
Your bedroom goes from 400ppm to 2,000ppm co2, but the temperature does not rise by 16 degrees.....
You do not even notice unless you have a Co2 monitor like I do....

Oxygen and nitrogen do have a very significant conductive thermal contribution.
I use liquid nitrogen as a coolant at work.

Atmospheric heat rises and cools. Heat goes up and is lost, it can not radiate down.
Temperature drops 3.5 degrees per thousand feet.
Colder air above can not heat the earth.
Go outside with an infrared thermometer on a hot day and measure the ground temperature.
compare it to the air temperature. The ground is much hotter than the air.
now point it straight up and measure the sky temp, it will be cold or very cold....

When the sun goes down the air should drop to -60 degrees. But it does not.
The earth (top soil, a solid) stores significant excess heat from the sun.
Which re-radiates later at night to keep the air "warm".

The earth releases geothermal heat when it is cold.
The earth (soil and ocean) acts as a heat pump that keeps our climate stable.
This is the missing negative feedback system that keeps our climate from going out of control.
Their entire narrative only looks up and not down.
The leave out that geothermal energy, with the solar energy - which controls our climate.

Climate is changing but it is natural variation, which is not following what co2 is doing.
I am not a scientist, I am a retired instrumentation/test engineer.
Engineers work with reality.....

The wild fires have nothing to do with this nonsense.
It is really about other things.

I had the fire sweep through my town last month and I narrowly missed being a victim.
Several of my friends lost everything in these fires.
It is more about how we help each other pull through this.
Later it will be mud slides...
Yes I did notice how Ca seems to be getting better support than NC!
Not fair!
Let us go in the positive direction with this.
look forward not backward.
 
Larry Fine said:
There were devastating fires long before mankind, too.
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The devastating fires in the US northwest were a driving factor behind the formation of the National Forest Service. Once upon a time there were charts of documented western US forest fires from 1920 to the 1990's. these were used to justify the formation and continued funding of the NFS. They seem to have been removed from the internet.
 
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