Alternator core failure

[Andrew Shadow]

Based on the number of posts I read describing how hard it is to remove the gasket and adhesive that is on the clutch cover and the clutch slave cylinder that adhesive must be good stuff. I'm curious to know if anyone has tried softening the gasket and adhesive by using heat. In my many years in aircraft maintenance I routinely encountered adhesives that needed to be removed from base materials that had to be treated delicately. This often precluded using mechanical and/or chemical means so as not to damage the base material. Heat from a heat-gun was often the best solution. Sufficiently high heat will loosen up most adhesives. While this adhesive easily withstands the 200 degree temperature of the engine the much higher heat that a heat-gun can bring to bear might do the trick.

 

[CYYJ]

Hi Andrew:

I think that heat would be contraindicated in this situation, due to the probability of uneven heating of the large engine casting and the risks of possibly cracking or deforming the casting, as well as the risk of softening the same adhesive that runs aft on either side of the engine. I do understand where you are coming from, though - I'm also an AME, and have recently retired from the engineering department of an aircraft manufacturer.

Honda's sealant is pretty formidable - even straight MEK had little effect on it.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Hi Michael:

I would have absolutely no concern about cracking whatsoever. Aluminum is extremely efficient at dissipating heat. The aluminum has more than enough mass in that area that it will dissipate the heat so efficiently that I doubt that it would ever get much above warm to the touch in any one given area before the adhesive would soften- assuming that heat has an effect on this adhesive at all. As for the sealant that seals the crankcase- I would simply not use the heat method in the sections immediately surrounding that joint area. When my turn comes I will give it a go with the heat-gun.

 

[ST-Traveler]

Thank you very much for these valuable tips, I will have to get these items, did you get them off Amazon?

 

[CYYJ]

...did you get them off Amazon?

If you are referring to the plaster knife and the gasket remover / gasket sealant I wrote about in post #20, no, I just bought them at a local automotive / home improvement store (Canadian Tire). All three are very common 'off the shelf' products.

Michael

 

[SupraSabre]

...
Be aware that the Service Manual calls for an application of high temperature gasket sealer within half an inch either side of the seam in the engine case. It's hard to see the seam looking in from the front, but if you look just inside the engine case, you can see the sealant used where the seam runs back on either side of the engine case.

I couldn't find the '3Bond 1207B' that the Service Manual calls for, but I did find a Permatex sealant with equivalent performance characteristics.

Okay, Larry (igofar) will probably say I'm nuts, but I have done this with the '05, '04#2 and the 2010 when replacing that engine gasket.

I run a thin coat of oil on it, both sides and make sure it is covered, but not soaked in.

I have yet to have a front cover leak from this, plus next time, I hope it comes off easier.

Anyone else do it that way?

 

[Al Gully]

Based on the number of posts I read describing how hard it is to remove the gasket and adhesive that is on the clutch cover and the clutch slave cylinder that adhesive must be good stuff. I'm curious to know if anyone has tried softening the gasket and adhesive by using heat. In my many years in aircraft maintenance I routinely encountered adhesives that needed to be removed from base materials that had to be treated delicately. This often precluded using mechanical and/or chemical means so as not to damage the base material. Heat from a heat-gun was often the best solution. Sufficiently high heat will loosen up most adhesives. While this adhesive easily withstands the 200 degree temperature of the engine the much higher heat that a heat-gun can bring to bear might do the trick.

That sounds like a great idea, here's a picture of my PVC welder. Basically it's a glorified heat gun that can go up to 700 C or 1294 F
It's computer controlled, so I can start at a lower temperature and work my way up.

 

[ST-Traveler]

CYYJ-
I made it all the way to the bottom alternator bolt and now am puzzled as to how to get it out? It is blind shot and I can barely get a socket on the bolt head. I cant imagine what it will be like trying to start that same bolt when I can't even see it or hardly get any kind of a socket on it.
Do you have any suggestions for the bottom bolt?

Thanks,

 

[skids]

you tube video on alternator removal. ST1300 pan european

Oh my! That was such a process just to get the alternator out.

 

[SupraSabre]

Oh my! That was such a process just to get the alternator out.

Not if you do it often enough!

 

[ST-Traveler]

Mines out and on my work bench now. 137,400 some odd miles on the OEM. Still works OK but wanted it changed just in case.
The -V - is really dirty- got alot of cleaning to do and tidying up -- Oh well got all winter to fiddle with it.
I am replacing any and all water hoses I can reach and couple of sub harnesses that were brittle, all the vacuum lines and T's on the throttle body.
I am going to put in a new engine oil pressure switch while I am at it and a new temp sensor switch on the thermostat housing as well.

 

[ST-Traveler]

I would really like to do a throttle body sync when I get the TB back in the bike if anyone has a gauge they can lend out.

 

[dduelin]

With all the coolant hoses don’t forget the O rings under the water pipe joints on each cylinder head.

 

[SupraSabre]

Also, to change out the water oil cooler water lines, it's best to drop the oil cooler down so you can get to the hoses.

Note: I have yet to find a replacement o-ring for the oil cooler (outer ring - Never have seen one in the diagrams? ) Anyone else find one?)

 

[CYYJ]

CYYJ- I made it all the way to the bottom alternator bolt and now am puzzled as to how to get it out?

Hello:

I wish I could help you, but I didn't remove the alternator from my bike when I disassembled it. I removed everything except the alternator - the object of the excercise was to replace hoses and hose clamps in the 'V' between the cylinders.

Based on what I saw when I had the bike disassembled, I think you should be able to reach the bottom bolt with a long extension on a socket wrench, with a knuckle installed at the end of the extension, just before the socket itself. I don't know if you have taken the radiator off of your moto (I took both the radiator and front wheel off), but it is quite easy to see the bolt from the front if you have the radiator off (even easier if you have the front wheel off). The photo below shows the bottom bolt.

The thermostat, thermostat hoses, and the large black metal brace that spans the frame in front of the thermostat were removed before this photo was taken.

Michael

Bottom bolt on ST 1300 alternator

 

[dduelin]

I think I used an extension that purposely fits the socket a bit loosely , a "wobble" extension, that allows getting on a bolt without a perfect shot at it.

 

[CYYJ]

...I used an extension that purposely fits the socket a bit loosely , a "wobble" extension, that allows getting on a bolt without a perfect shot at it.

For forum members not familiar with these tools, below is a picture showing a 'wobble' on the left, and a knuckle on the right.

Michael

Wobble & Knuckle

 

[ST-Traveler]

With all the coolant hoses don’t forget the O rings under the water pipe joints on each cylinder head.

I think I used an extension that purposely fits the socket a bit loosely , a "wobble" extension, that allows getting on a bolt without a perfect shot at it.

Dave got them ordered. Should be here Friday with all the hoses. I am doing all water hoses that I could order on the parts fich. Also got new thermostat, temp sensor and engine oil pressure sensor coming on order.
Got the new alternator today and new battery.
What should I do for the battery? its OEM ordered from Honda service. I won't be using it obviously for a little while. Any suggestions? Battery tender or just leave it in box until I get ready this spring?

Thanks for any feedback.

 

[ST-Traveler]

For forum members not familiar with these tools, below is a picture showing a 'wobble' on the left, and a knuckle on the right.

Michael

Wobble & Knuckle

Thanks for this feedback- I did get it out by using a swivel extension as you have shown in this pic.

 

[ST-Traveler]

This is correct. If I remember correctly I had a 12" extension, and a wobble on the end. Took a few cuss words but I finally got it out. Also as mentioned before the radiator, and tstat housing will need to be removed before the lower bolt can be accessed.

I also had to take out the EOP switch to get it forward enough to rock it straight up and out of the V.