2014 Honda CTX1300

detuned=now burns regular grade gas. U all ask for it.
All of U posted to Honda what the new ST should have on it. I believe the CTX is what Honda created in response to your input. The only 1 they did not address was (keep the 7 gallon fuel tank).
Like change rear tire with out moving the mufflers. Done.
I like it.
 
Blrfl said:
The first two years of STs sold very well in this market, so there really wasn't much need to. I don't think I started hearing the term "leftover" applied to STs until 2007 or 2008.

--Mark
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Nope, I bought a deeply discounted 2006 in January 2008 and there were 3 freshly out of the crate next to 4 leftover VFR's. There were several new 2006's still on the floor a couple weeks later when Procycle went out of business .........
 
Not to be pedantic, Tom, but 2006s wouldn't have been leftovers until 2007.

--Mark
 
TPadden said:
Then why be.....
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Because my contract with the National Pedants Union Local 1261 requires it and because I think you missed my point.

You bought a 2006, which wouldn't have been considered a leftover until 2007, which is when I said we started hearing about people buying leftovers. What you can take from that is that in 2005 or 2006, early demand for these bikes was satisfied and Honda reduced production but didn't cut it far enough because not everything they produced sold. If I had a source for production numbers for 2005-2007, we could pinpoint when that was. My guess is 2006, because I don't remember hearing the term "leftover 2005" bandied about much. (I'm not saying there weren't any, but there weren't many.)

That brings me back to my original point, which was that when a product is anticipated enough, you don't need to advertise it. Production of STs for the U.S. in 2003-2004 averaged 2,200, and those models sold very well. The dealer where I bought mine sold his entire allotment of 2003s (as did the other local dealers), had deposits on all of his 2004s well before their production dates and was looking to get more from wherever he could. By 2008, those numbers were down to 656. Nobody with any business sense is going to fund an ad campaign to sell a few hundred bikes into a niche segment when they'll eventually be snapped up as leftovers by bargain hunters.

The CTX is a different beast. Honda has been out of the V4 cruiser market since the Magna came to an end in 2003. Advertising helps get the message out that they're back in it and lets people who are looking for a cruiser with a more advanced mill than a V-twin that there's something out there for them. We're also still in a market where the recreational dollars don't flow as easily as they did pre-2008, so marketing helps lever them out of wallets.

--Mark
 
Blrfl said:
Because my contract with the National Pedants Union Local 1261 requires it and because I think you missed my point.

You bought a 2006, which wouldn't have been considered a leftover until 2007, which is when I said we started hearing about people buying leftovers. What you can take from that is that in 2005 or 2006, early demand for these bikes was satisfied and Honda reduced production but didn't cut it far enough because not everything they produced sold. If I had a source for production numbers for 2005-2007, we could pinpoint when that was. My guess is 2006, because I don't remember hearing the term "leftover 2005" bandied about much. (I'm not saying there weren't any, but there weren't many.)

That brings me back to my original point, which was that when a product is anticipated enough, you don't need to advertise it. Production of STs for the U.S. in 2003-2004 averaged 2,200, and those models sold very well. The dealer where I bought mine sold his entire allotment of 2003s (as did the other local dealers), had deposits on all of his 2004s well before their production dates and was looking to get more from wherever he could. By 2008, those numbers were down to 656. Nobody with any business sense is going to fund an ad campaign to sell a few hundred bikes into a niche segment when they'll eventually be snapped up as leftovers by bargain hunters.

The CTX is a different beast. Honda has been out of the V4 cruiser market since the Magna came to an end in 2003. Advertising helps get the message out that they're back in it and lets people who are looking for a cruiser with a more advanced mill than a V-twin that there's something out there for them. We're also still in a market where the recreational dollars don't flow as easily as they did pre-2008, so marketing helps lever them out of wallets.

--Mark
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You say pedantic; I say obtuse. :D In 2006 ST's sat, not being sold, and Honda was certainly smart enough to realize they had leftovers in 2006.

What all that verbose discourse points out is that in 2006 sales were poor enough for Honda to keep 2006 ST's in crates; in 2007 as soon as they could be labeled leftovers - they were. Leftovers in the first 2 years of production indicates a sales/ advertising problem from the get-go. :)
 
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Mark,

Thought I'd add here's where we differ. You think Honda made a decision not to advertise the ST because the market existed to sell their product without any advertising effort. My premise is Honda, rightly or wrongly, looked at the market, and made the conscious decision early on, that the US sport touring market DIDN'T exist to the level that they made any advertising effort. No doubt that the cruiser market in the US exists .......

Tom
 
TPadden said:
You say pedantic; I say obtuse. :D In 2006 ST's sat, not being sold, and Honda was certainly smart enough to realize they had leftovers in 2006.

What all that verbose discourse points out is that in 2006 sales were poor enough for Honda to keep 2006 ST's in crates; in 2007 as soon as they could be labeled leftovers - they were. Leftovers in the first 2 years of production indicates a sales/ advertising problem from the get-go. :)
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The first two years of US sales were '03 and '04. Buying your bike in '08 doesn't really have anything to do with the original statement that the first two years the ST sold fairly well.
 
What is the difference between an 06 and an 07?

Apart from the chassis number, nothing I imagine so what's the point? It's the same bike, the same colours, the same engine etc. Only when you have and upgrade should that make a difference.

The fixation with a particular year when there have been no changes is pointless and, to me, not good business.
 
dduelin said:
The first two years of US sales were '03 and '04. Buying your bike in '08 doesn't really have anything to do with the original statement that the first two years the ST sold fairly well.
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Glad you jumped in with some non-BMW opinion for a change ..... but if we were talking BMW's you'd post reams of data..... :bmwkick1: :rofl1:
 
JQL said:
What is the difference between an 06 and an 07?......Only when you have and upgrade should that make a difference.
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..... or an 08, 09, 10, etc.. I agree but am not holding my breath waiting for an ST "upgrade". At least the VFR had occasional VTEC changes :).

We can also all agree that the ST is a great bike that deserves better sales numbers in the US.
 
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There were differences between the 1st and 2nd model year as far as what options were provided, like 2004+ had the elec shield on all bikes.

In 2008 there were many changes made which were not major from the standpoint of user functionality but several important components were upgraded, like front brake caliper size and SMC changes.

People love to say a 2008 is the same as a 2012 but that's not true, since it is assigned a vin and associated wth THAT year, it will be a higher value and not depreciated over time like a 4 year old bike, even if all the components are 100% identical, it's still a newer bike so you would expect newer bikes to have a higher current and resale value.

Both the ST1100 and ST1300 bikes are very stable and solid platforms. Obviously, the ST1100 will become less so just because they are getting older and that is also creeping into the 1st year model ST1300s now...

It's pretty rare for Honda to advertise much of any of their motorcycle platform, in fact there aren't many bike-specific ads I've seen from any manufacturer.. Honda has done one for the wing and valkyrie, these days there are more internet based ads showing up but I'm talking more about watching TV and seeing an ad for a Honda, it's usually about a sale pertaining to low interest rates and a range of bikes or ATVs.
 
I really like pie and riding a motorcycle to get some. Anyone else?
 
TPadden said:
Thought I'd add here's where we differ. You think Honda made a decision not to advertise the ST because the market existed to sell their product without any advertising effort. My premise is Honda, rightly or wrongly, looked at the market, and made the conscious decision early on, that the US sport touring market DIDN'T exist to the level that they made any advertising effort.
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That's also a possibility and a good point since there was previous experience with the 1100 to draw from. Without any insight into what Honda was doing, all either of us can do is guess.

I've never looked at what the production figures for the 1100 looked like, so it's possible the 2006-and-later production numbers reflect the trend of 1100 sales and 2003-2004 were bubbles for expected demand for the new model.

--Mark
 
So if there are no updates/upgrades why sell it using a "year" designation? Just because it was manufactured on 31st December shouldn't make it less valuable than one manufactured on 2nd January...

In fact, IMO, the 2nd January one is probably less valuable due to the after effects of the New Year celebrations...:capwin::wine2::beer8:
 
I like the CTX... I like the ST (leftover or not) ... I like the FJR ... I like the F6B ... they get most any of us to pie or cobbler in a very enjoyable manner. I'll even enjoy leftover pie. ;)

Bones said:
I really like pie and riding a motorcycle to get some. Anyone else?
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Yes.

Mellow said:
LOL.. Look! A Squirrel !!
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That, or "ball", or "bird", and you've got the full attention of my ST (sport terrier). :D
 
JQL said:
So if there are no updates/upgrades why sell it using a "year" designation? Just because it was manufactured on 31st December shouldn't make it less valuable than one manufactured on 2nd January...

In fact, IMO, the 2nd January one is probably less valuable due to the after effects of the New Year celebrations...:capwin::wine2::beer8:
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The market makes the older bike worth less.
 
In the UK there are two main things that make a vehicle worth less: A New Model and/or Year of registration (which is on the Registration Plate - licence plate and easily visible to all).

In France there are two things which make a vehicle worth less: condition of the vehicle and/or a new model - year, on the whole, is totally irrelevant!

You can't tell from the outside which year model someone is riding so why? It doesn't make sense. 2 Days difference and it's worth what, a monkey less?
 
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TPadden said:
My premise is Honda, rightly or wrongly, looked at the market, and made the conscious decision early on, that the US sport touring market DIDN'T exist to the level that they made any advertising effort.
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Then I say "wrongly". Lest we forget, BMW, Triumph, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Moto Guzzi and others who live on the same planet as Honda, realize there's value here in the sport touring market. Despite the findings of Honda's mystery focus groups, not all sport tour riders want a nuvo-cruiser.
 
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