Re: CTX 1300 - I just don't get it.
Yep.
You'd have to understand "who" the bike is aimed at.
Yep.
You'd have to understand "who" the bike is aimed at.
2014 Honda CTX1300
- Thread starter Bones
- Start date
ST1100Y
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Re: CTX 1300 - I just don't get it.
I believe that also harsher emission laws and the required "MFG fleet carbon quota" are factors... (Also happened to the S2000 (gen-2 with less HP), Civic (R-type discontinued), etc...)
On the EC vehicular tax, 98HP would be the threshold ... (I recall the castrated German and ED sales version of the ST1100 with 98HP, and the <100HP ST1300 for France, which however successfully eliminated the jerky throttle issue though...)
LOL! :lol:
I believe that also harsher emission laws and the required "MFG fleet carbon quota" are factors... (Also happened to the S2000 (gen-2 with less HP), Civic (R-type discontinued), etc...)
On the EC vehicular tax, 98HP would be the threshold ... (I recall the castrated German and ED sales version of the ST1100 with 98HP, and the <100HP ST1300 for France, which however successfully eliminated the jerky throttle issue though...)
Re: CTX 1300 - I just don't get it.
Yes. Big time. There are several posts pointing out the misconceptions of people who jump to the conclusions not supported by what they read.
A stock Harley has low-end grunt that an ST doesn't have a prayer of equalling. And that appeals to a demographic of rider that the ST does not as shown by the tons of H-Ds out there compared to the ounces of STs.
There is no try. Only do. And Honda did. Honda designed the CTX for a different rider than that of the ST. Some people can't wrap their head around the idea that Honda would make machines for markets in which it might actually make a good profit. Confusion ensues.
The point (and it's a good one) has been made several times that most riders don't operate their bikes in the Upper Tenth. They just don't. And for many low-end grunt means low speed tractability. It seems a lot of people like that.
A good manufacturer designs parts and systems that complement each other and support a particular purpose. Not everybody wants to ride a sport bike most of which would run rings around an ST in the performance category. Not everybody wants to ride an adventure bike. Or a luxo-tourer. Or a cruiser. Or as it turns out a sport-tourer.
A bagger is a thing. Choice is a good thing. A bagger bike with the ST's engine would be a business mistake.
I did not know that. Good business sense on Honda's part.
OH MY FREAKIN' GOD! What kind of motorcyclist would ever own a bike that was limited to 120mph?? WHAT WAS HONDA THINKING??!!
I hope to see sales figures for this bike in two years time. I think it will do well. Not "ST" well but well as in making-Mother-Honda
Yes. Big time. There are several posts pointing out the misconceptions of people who jump to the conclusions not supported by what they read.
A stock Harley has low-end grunt that an ST doesn't have a prayer of equalling. And that appeals to a demographic of rider that the ST does not as shown by the tons of H-Ds out there compared to the ounces of STs.
There is no try. Only do. And Honda did. Honda designed the CTX for a different rider than that of the ST. Some people can't wrap their head around the idea that Honda would make machines for markets in which it might actually make a good profit. Confusion ensues.
The point (and it's a good one) has been made several times that most riders don't operate their bikes in the Upper Tenth. They just don't. And for many low-end grunt means low speed tractability. It seems a lot of people like that.
A good manufacturer designs parts and systems that complement each other and support a particular purpose. Not everybody wants to ride a sport bike most of which would run rings around an ST in the performance category. Not everybody wants to ride an adventure bike. Or a luxo-tourer. Or a cruiser. Or as it turns out a sport-tourer.
A bagger is a thing. Choice is a good thing. A bagger bike with the ST's engine would be a business mistake.
I did not know that. Good business sense on Honda's part.
OH MY FREAKIN' GOD! What kind of motorcyclist would ever own a bike that was limited to 120mph?? WHAT WAS HONDA THINKING??!!
I hope to see sales figures for this bike in two years time. I think it will do well. Not "ST" well but well as in making-Mother-Honda
Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
Re: CTX 1300 - I just don't get it.
Because in the grand scheme of things, horsepower is for people who ride the brochure and torque is for people who ride the bike. Street riders don't plumb the top end of horsepower anywhere near as often as they take advantage of the torque peak.
If you're going by Honda's marketing material for torque, the figure of 86 lb-ft they've bandied about is usually accompanied by a horsepower figure of 125. Dyno tests show 78-80 ft-lb and 110-115 HP, so the best I can assume is that those figures are at the crank, not the rear wheel. The Rider dyno chart shows the torque on the CTX peaking at 76.3, which isn't much less than what you get out of the ST.
What you may or may not have noticed is that the shape of the torque curve on the CTX is very close to that of the ST in its upper range. (This chart is good for comparison.) They got rid of the ST's low-RPM plateau (including that dip at 3,500 RPM) and shoved the fun zone down into a rev region where cruiser riders will appreciate it. The shape of it, its new location and the gearing the CTX inherits from the ST will probably make it a load of fun off the line, where horsepower doesn't matter.
I'm not likely to buy one, but as I said in an earlier post, I really want to ride one just to see what it's like.
--Mark
Because in the grand scheme of things, horsepower is for people who ride the brochure and torque is for people who ride the bike. Street riders don't plumb the top end of horsepower anywhere near as often as they take advantage of the torque peak.
If you're going by Honda's marketing material for torque, the figure of 86 lb-ft they've bandied about is usually accompanied by a horsepower figure of 125. Dyno tests show 78-80 ft-lb and 110-115 HP, so the best I can assume is that those figures are at the crank, not the rear wheel. The Rider dyno chart shows the torque on the CTX peaking at 76.3, which isn't much less than what you get out of the ST.
What you may or may not have noticed is that the shape of the torque curve on the CTX is very close to that of the ST in its upper range. (This chart is good for comparison.) They got rid of the ST's low-RPM plateau (including that dip at 3,500 RPM) and shoved the fun zone down into a rev region where cruiser riders will appreciate it. The shape of it, its new location and the gearing the CTX inherits from the ST will probably make it a load of fun off the line, where horsepower doesn't matter.
I'm not likely to buy one, but as I said in an earlier post, I really want to ride one just to see what it's like.
--Mark
Re: CTX 1300 - I just don't get it.
This is what gets me......especially with the NT700s getting such good mileage.....does the CTX700 use the same nt engine (great gas mileage)?j I can certainly see detuning an engine but to not get increased fuel economy (especially with a small tank) makes me scratch my head..........................ff
ChucksKLRST
Team Colorado
Re: CTX 1300 - I just don't get it.
Please don't confuse the NT700V --V Twin with the NC700X Parallel Twin The CTX700 uses the same motor as the NC700X
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Re: CTX 1300 - I just don't get it.
Well I am getting them confused......which one gets near 90 mpg? Thanks...................ff
ChucksKLRST
Team Colorado
Re: CTX 1300 - I just don't get it.
My NT700V get about 55 MPG with normal everyday riding. The NC700X is reports to get up near 70 to 75 MPG. I don't own one so I cannot say for sure. Somebody will chime in here.
My NT700V get about 55 MPG with normal everyday riding. The NC700X is reports to get up near 70 to 75 MPG. I don't own one so I cannot say for sure. Somebody will chime in here.
Last edited:
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Just looking at the dyno charts on both bikes it looks to me like the CTX1300 has higher torque AND HP than the ST1300 at below 5000 rpm. At 5000 rpm they are equal. Above 5000 rpm is where the ST1300 excels and the numbers continue rising to peak at 6000 rpm (T) and 8500 rpm (HP). Keeping in mind that the CTX is designed to operate at much lower rpm than the ST this is a very good thing for that bike. Kind of what I've been saying all along this thread.
I never ride my ST1100 at 5000 rpm or higher. I think I can count on one hand how many times I've been over 5000 rpm. Since my ST has lower power than the ST1300 I would have to say that my ST is naturally under powered compared with the CTX at any range where I normally ride it. It should be since the CTX engine is bigger. But I'm sure if I had a ST1300 it would be no different for how I ride. It really only matters at what rpm you ride your bike. If my bike had 150 HP and 100 lb-ft torque at over 6000 rpm but I never ride that fast what good does it do me? And so what if my bike could do 200 mph. If I never go faster than 80 mph the high end capability is wasted.
I never ride my ST1100 at 5000 rpm or higher. I think I can count on one hand how many times I've been over 5000 rpm. Since my ST has lower power than the ST1300 I would have to say that my ST is naturally under powered compared with the CTX at any range where I normally ride it. It should be since the CTX engine is bigger. But I'm sure if I had a ST1300 it would be no different for how I ride. It really only matters at what rpm you ride your bike. If my bike had 150 HP and 100 lb-ft torque at over 6000 rpm but I never ride that fast what good does it do me? And so what if my bike could do 200 mph. If I never go faster than 80 mph the high end capability is wasted.
Re: CTX 1300 - I just don't get it.
This gave me a good LOL. Truth is, there was a time, ant it wasn't that long ago, that I did pay more attention to a vehicle's top speed, even though I've only had a bike up to 120 once (a VFR800 which was capable of much, much more), and a MINI Cooper S up to 125 once (capable of 144), just to see what it was like. So now that I've been there and done that, I realize that I have no need or desire to do it again. While I do have a big issue with Big Brother limiting the performance of the vehicles I buy, because they obviously know what's best for me better than I do, 120 mph seems like a perfectly reasonable point to instill reason and common sense for this kind of bike.
All in all, this was just a great post. I hope you get that test ride soon.
OH MY FREAKIN' GOD! What kind of motorcyclist would ever own a bike that was limited to 120mph?? WHAT WAS HONDA THINKING??!!
I hope to see sales figures for this bike in two years time. I think it will do well. Not "ST" well but well as in making-Mother-Honda
This gave me a good LOL. Truth is, there was a time, ant it wasn't that long ago, that I did pay more attention to a vehicle's top speed, even though I've only had a bike up to 120 once (a VFR800 which was capable of much, much more), and a MINI Cooper S up to 125 once (capable of 144), just to see what it was like. So now that I've been there and done that, I realize that I have no need or desire to do it again. While I do have a big issue with Big Brother limiting the performance of the vehicles I buy, because they obviously know what's best for me better than I do, 120 mph seems like a perfectly reasonable point to instill reason and common sense for this kind of bike.
All in all, this was just a great post. I hope you get that test ride soon.
Re: CTX 1300 - I just don't get it.
I was asked this past Friday from my local Honda dealer where I purchased my last 3 bikes, to take the new CTX1300 out for the weekend and provide some feed back. Listed below is my point of view on this bike.
2014 Honda CTX 1300
Ride Review
This ride review is based on my riding experiences in the last 8 years of owning the following Honda motorcycles, 2003 VFR 800, 2004 VTX1800N, and my current bike a 2006 ST1300, which to date has over 110,000 km.
The bike is a new 2014 Honda CTX1300, with Bluetooth? Audio, anti-lock brakes, self-cancelling turn signals, traction control. (There'll be a tall windscreen, backrest with pad, 12V accessory socket, rear trunk (45L), LED foglight kit, plenty of chrome accents, and more!)
This will not be a technical ride report, stating horsepower, gear ratios, and suspension travel .........
It?s riding the bike the 1st day (3hrs) as a cruiser, with a shorty helmet, enjoying the wind in my face, and the music thru the built in sound system.
The 2nd day (10hrs in the saddle), was riding as a Sport Tourer, full-face helmet and all the gear, music steaming thru the on-board Bluetooth system (iPhone 5s, Cardo Scala G4).
The 1st day ride was good, handling is very responsive, throttle was smooth, braking as effective as the braking on my ABS equipped ST1300. The sound system at highway speed ( 90km/h and over was barely audible, this could be fixed with the OEM larger windshield that is available. The seat was very comfortable and leg room was very good for my 5? 10? inch frame. I rode this bike as I rode my previous 2004 VTX1800N model, and I wasn?t disappointed. This is definitely an option for the riders that are longing for he discontinued VTX1800.
The 2nd day was the best. The day started at 6:00am on a clear blue sky with the temps at 10c. Dressed in full Alpinestar riding gear with a Shoe Neotec helmet and Scala G4. I live in Mennonite Farm land country, no traffic on Sunday mornings, took no time to get the CTX up to speed also the OEM heated grips were quickly turn on to max (1 ? 5), which after a few minutes I needed to dial it down to 3. The bike handle flawlessly, with more power than you can legally use at any gear. If you?re a ST 1300 owner you will recognize the whine of the engine, but will not recognize the rumble of the exhaust, nice touch Honda.
The tire choice & suspension has made this bike very stable in the peg scraping corners, (I promised to replace them).
The seat was surprisingly comfortable, even after 10 hrs. in the saddle I wanted more. In my 3 previous bikes, 4 to 5 hrs. was max on the stock seats, not this bike. As we all know seats is the 1 factor that you cannot please most to all riders.
I also joined a group of ST-Owners on their way to an RTE, (Ride To Eat, an event hosted by a ST-Owner.com member for any ST-Owner members and their riding friends, from anywhere. The RTE had riders from Pennsylvania, New York & Michigan.)
The ride was mildly spirited with no problems keeping up in the 3rd riding position in a group of 8 bikes. The wind buffeting was noticeable but not tiring or noisy thru my Shoe Noetec helmet. The leader was on a VStrom, with that said you cannot expect to follow a Vstrom without ending up on a gravel road, which the CTX handle flawlessly with the TCS.
The saddlebags are certainly not in the class of SportTourers, but I had no problem fitting my MacBook with a change of cloths in one side bag. Full face helmets will not fit but your shorty helmet will, just in case you find a passenger along the way.
The Bluetooth system worked well with music streaming to my Cardo Scala G4 from the iPhone 5s. The LED screen displayed the song, volume and length of song. Controls which are on top of the gas tank were easily operated with gloves on.
To sum it up, if I?m looking for a cruiser seating position with a sport touring persona, this is the one. It gave me all I get from my ST1300 except for the Saddle Bag storage & the adjustable windscreen.
JL
I was asked this past Friday from my local Honda dealer where I purchased my last 3 bikes, to take the new CTX1300 out for the weekend and provide some feed back. Listed below is my point of view on this bike.
2014 Honda CTX 1300
Ride Review
This ride review is based on my riding experiences in the last 8 years of owning the following Honda motorcycles, 2003 VFR 800, 2004 VTX1800N, and my current bike a 2006 ST1300, which to date has over 110,000 km.
The bike is a new 2014 Honda CTX1300, with Bluetooth? Audio, anti-lock brakes, self-cancelling turn signals, traction control. (There'll be a tall windscreen, backrest with pad, 12V accessory socket, rear trunk (45L), LED foglight kit, plenty of chrome accents, and more!)
This will not be a technical ride report, stating horsepower, gear ratios, and suspension travel .........
It?s riding the bike the 1st day (3hrs) as a cruiser, with a shorty helmet, enjoying the wind in my face, and the music thru the built in sound system.
The 2nd day (10hrs in the saddle), was riding as a Sport Tourer, full-face helmet and all the gear, music steaming thru the on-board Bluetooth system (iPhone 5s, Cardo Scala G4).
The 1st day ride was good, handling is very responsive, throttle was smooth, braking as effective as the braking on my ABS equipped ST1300. The sound system at highway speed ( 90km/h and over was barely audible, this could be fixed with the OEM larger windshield that is available. The seat was very comfortable and leg room was very good for my 5? 10? inch frame. I rode this bike as I rode my previous 2004 VTX1800N model, and I wasn?t disappointed. This is definitely an option for the riders that are longing for he discontinued VTX1800.
The 2nd day was the best. The day started at 6:00am on a clear blue sky with the temps at 10c. Dressed in full Alpinestar riding gear with a Shoe Neotec helmet and Scala G4. I live in Mennonite Farm land country, no traffic on Sunday mornings, took no time to get the CTX up to speed also the OEM heated grips were quickly turn on to max (1 ? 5), which after a few minutes I needed to dial it down to 3. The bike handle flawlessly, with more power than you can legally use at any gear. If you?re a ST 1300 owner you will recognize the whine of the engine, but will not recognize the rumble of the exhaust, nice touch Honda.
The tire choice & suspension has made this bike very stable in the peg scraping corners, (I promised to replace them).
The seat was surprisingly comfortable, even after 10 hrs. in the saddle I wanted more. In my 3 previous bikes, 4 to 5 hrs. was max on the stock seats, not this bike. As we all know seats is the 1 factor that you cannot please most to all riders.
I also joined a group of ST-Owners on their way to an RTE, (Ride To Eat, an event hosted by a ST-Owner.com member for any ST-Owner members and their riding friends, from anywhere. The RTE had riders from Pennsylvania, New York & Michigan.)
The ride was mildly spirited with no problems keeping up in the 3rd riding position in a group of 8 bikes. The wind buffeting was noticeable but not tiring or noisy thru my Shoe Noetec helmet. The leader was on a VStrom, with that said you cannot expect to follow a Vstrom without ending up on a gravel road, which the CTX handle flawlessly with the TCS.
The saddlebags are certainly not in the class of SportTourers, but I had no problem fitting my MacBook with a change of cloths in one side bag. Full face helmets will not fit but your shorty helmet will, just in case you find a passenger along the way.
The Bluetooth system worked well with music streaming to my Cardo Scala G4 from the iPhone 5s. The LED screen displayed the song, volume and length of song. Controls which are on top of the gas tank were easily operated with gloves on.
To sum it up, if I?m looking for a cruiser seating position with a sport touring persona, this is the one. It gave me all I get from my ST1300 except for the Saddle Bag storage & the adjustable windscreen.
JL
Re: CTX 1300 - I just don't get it.
^^^ And this sums it up about perfectly. Nice.
^^^ And this sums it up about perfectly. Nice.
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Interesting how the shape of the saddlebag has so much to do with what you think you can put in them. Both STs and this CTX all have 35 liter bags, just different shapes. I've also seen photos of the top case for the CTX from different angles. From the side it looks rather small, but from behind it is wide and looks bigger than my Bestem 42 liter top case... after all, it is rated at 46(47?) liters, about the same as the ST1300 factory case.
Never had electrically adjustable screen on a bike yet. Sounds nice, but until I have one I won't miss it.
My ST1100 doesn't have one of course, neither did my GW. I tend to set things, even easily adjustable things, to one position and just leave them there all the time so don't know if this would be an item I would make use of.
Never had electrically adjustable screen on a bike yet. Sounds nice, but until I have one I won't miss it.
My ST1100 doesn't have one of course, neither did my GW. I tend to set things, even easily adjustable things, to one position and just leave them there all the time so don't know if this would be an item I would make use of.
Replacement for St? (CTX1300)
Was in Southern Power Sports, Chattanooga Tn yesterday and sat on the ST replacement. Model was the deluxe, which had saddle backs, the 1300 engine, ABS a sound system and pipes which switched the start up sound to more of a motorcycle rather than a sewing machine. Many accessories scheduled for July of this yr. First impressions: felt much lower and less top-heavy sitting on bike, stock seat seemed much more comfortable, at least in the show room. Colors on hand, Black, Red, Steel Blue.Rep said this model, was the replacement for the the the ST and engine was the exact engine. Looked OK, making use of the new 700 body style. The dealer is already discounting the bike, in either the standard or deluxe iterations.
Nice bike, sat well, sounded nice., Lots of additional equipment on the way. Needs windshield at time of sale. Had ST sitting next to it, Two completely looking bike, St seemed more substantial one better made components.
I am reconsidering riding again, lesser miles per day, no nights, Bike model unknown, considering, Connie, FJR ,Versey, ZR1400, Hybussa, and BMW F800, The NEW RT, to name a few. Next home address, Oxford Mi. figure MI, Upper Wis and Norther Min as possible riding areas, with nice roads good site seeing, and fewer cars!
Was in Southern Power Sports, Chattanooga Tn yesterday and sat on the ST replacement. Model was the deluxe, which had saddle backs, the 1300 engine, ABS a sound system and pipes which switched the start up sound to more of a motorcycle rather than a sewing machine. Many accessories scheduled for July of this yr. First impressions: felt much lower and less top-heavy sitting on bike, stock seat seemed much more comfortable, at least in the show room. Colors on hand, Black, Red, Steel Blue.Rep said this model, was the replacement for the the the ST and engine was the exact engine. Looked OK, making use of the new 700 body style. The dealer is already discounting the bike, in either the standard or deluxe iterations.
Nice bike, sat well, sounded nice., Lots of additional equipment on the way. Needs windshield at time of sale. Had ST sitting next to it, Two completely looking bike, St seemed more substantial one better made components.
I am reconsidering riding again, lesser miles per day, no nights, Bike model unknown, considering, Connie, FJR ,Versey, ZR1400, Hybussa, and BMW F800, The NEW RT, to name a few. Next home address, Oxford Mi. figure MI, Upper Wis and Norther Min as possible riding areas, with nice roads good site seeing, and fewer cars!
ChucksKLRST
Team Colorado
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
The salesman has no clue what he is talking about. See this thread. https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?133030-2014-Honda-CTX1300&highlight=
The salesman has no clue what he is talking about. See this thread. https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?133030-2014-Honda-CTX1300&highlight=
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
I suspect you're referring to the CTX ... it's not a "replacement" for the ST, because it's a much different bike.
I suspect you're referring to the CTX ... it's not a "replacement" for the ST, because it's a much different bike.
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
Depending on who you talk to, it's the replacement. If the ST1300 was OFFICIALLY dead, then it would be the closest thing to a replacement, I guess. Honda is vague here.
However, everyone will have an opinion on this.
As to what you're looking for, for where and when you want to ride, the new CTX doesn't seem to match the other considerations. It seems like an odd-man out. I'd put the FJR (price) and F800(GT?) on my personal short list.
Depending on who you talk to, it's the replacement. If the ST1300 was OFFICIALLY dead, then it would be the closest thing to a replacement, I guess. Honda is vague here.
However, everyone will have an opinion on this.
As to what you're looking for, for where and when you want to ride, the new CTX doesn't seem to match the other considerations. It seems like an odd-man out. I'd put the FJR (price) and F800(GT?) on my personal short list.
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
According to the misinformed rep, from one of Honda's highest volume stores, it is the same engine as the first response refuted, the bike does make use of the CtX chassis, yet again, according to the rep. there will be no formal ST replacement. So in my mind, at least my discretion and fact that i sat on it, make my first TECH review, dead bang on.....next I'll be doing my own maint forums in MI...enjoy, ride safe land go sit on the new ST and start it up, you may like it!
Jammaman/ Doug
According to the misinformed rep, from one of Honda's highest volume stores, it is the same engine as the first response refuted, the bike does make use of the CtX chassis, yet again, according to the rep. there will be no formal ST replacement. So in my mind, at least my discretion and fact that i sat on it, make my first TECH review, dead bang on.....next I'll be doing my own maint forums in MI...enjoy, ride safe land go sit on the new ST and start it up, you may like it!
Jammaman/ Doug
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
:worthless
:worthless