SteveST1300
Vendor
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
:worthless
:worthless
2014 Honda CTX1300
- Thread starter Bones
- Start date
ChucksKLRST
Team Colorado
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
The cams are different, the motor has drop in horse power and also dropped in torque. The torque curve has moved to the lower end. It horse power is also developed at a lower RPM. The motor has been de-tuned. So it is not the same power plant as the ST1300. The CTX1300 is a good bike for what it was intended, but it is not a Sport Touring replacement. It might be a replacement for an individual's ST, but the CTX is not by any means a true sport touring machine.I hope it works out for you if you buy one. Each to his own. I have ridden one and found it is Not my type of machine. For the salesman to make that blanket statement shows he has not done his homework on his product.
The cams are different, the motor has drop in horse power and also dropped in torque. The torque curve has moved to the lower end. It horse power is also developed at a lower RPM. The motor has been de-tuned. So it is not the same power plant as the ST1300. The CTX1300 is a good bike for what it was intended, but it is not a Sport Touring replacement. It might be a replacement for an individual's ST, but the CTX is not by any means a true sport touring machine.I hope it works out for you if you buy one. Each to his own. I have ridden one and found it is Not my type of machine. For the salesman to make that blanket statement shows he has not done his homework on his product.
Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
There's no need to replace a model that's still in production.
--Mark
There's no need to replace a model that's still in production.
--Mark
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
Geesh even on ma honda's web site their review of this "new-generation cruiser" they forgot the ST in the States.
"Matsui : If I?m not wrong, this bike?s engine is based on the ST1300 Pan European sold in Europe. I haven?t seen the ST1300, as it is not sold in Japan, but it is a sports tourer, as opposed to the CTX1300, a relaxed bike in a new genre. When you were developing the CTX and tested the protptype with the ST?s engine, didn?t it feel strange?Nakanishi (Vehicle Test Engineer) : Yes. Indeed.
Matsui : What was the riding feel of the prototype?
Nakanishi : As you can imagine ?ST? stands for Sports Tourer, and the ST?s engine is the type that you?d want to find any excuse to open the throttle!
Matsui : I see. So, you?d tend to ride fast. Then the bank angle would feel insufficient. Then you?d think about changing the riding position. Wouldn?t that affect the direction of the bike?s riding feel?
Nakanishi : We had two objectives: One was increasing torque below 3500rpm, and the other was tuning power delivery in line with the CTX1300?s concept."
Geesh even on ma honda's web site their review of this "new-generation cruiser" they forgot the ST in the States.
"Matsui : If I?m not wrong, this bike?s engine is based on the ST1300 Pan European sold in Europe. I haven?t seen the ST1300, as it is not sold in Japan, but it is a sports tourer, as opposed to the CTX1300, a relaxed bike in a new genre. When you were developing the CTX and tested the protptype with the ST?s engine, didn?t it feel strange?Nakanishi (Vehicle Test Engineer) : Yes. Indeed.
Matsui : What was the riding feel of the prototype?
Nakanishi : As you can imagine ?ST? stands for Sports Tourer, and the ST?s engine is the type that you?d want to find any excuse to open the throttle!
Matsui : I see. So, you?d tend to ride fast. Then the bank angle would feel insufficient. Then you?d think about changing the riding position. Wouldn?t that affect the direction of the bike?s riding feel?
Nakanishi : We had two objectives: One was increasing torque below 3500rpm, and the other was tuning power delivery in line with the CTX1300?s concept."
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 2,542
- Age
- 69
- Location
- West Des Moines, IA
- Bike
- 2022 Kymco AK 550
- 2024 Miles
- 006503
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
Sounds like a nice easy riding machine, Doug. Hope it works out for you to get back to riding. Any place riding, and on any bike, is a good thing.
Sounds like a nice easy riding machine, Doug. Hope it works out for you to get back to riding. Any place riding, and on any bike, is a good thing.
dmcleane
Dave Elliott
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
To heck with the "new ST replacement", I'm just excited for Doug and his ability to look to the future. And that future could include a motorcycle.
Kudos to you Jammaman!!!
To heck with the "new ST replacement", I'm just excited for Doug and his ability to look to the future. And that future could include a motorcycle.
Kudos to you Jammaman!!!
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
I'll be heading down your way after YooperSToc.
Amen to that! I think the CTX is probably the best bike for you of the bunch you named.
I'll be heading down your way after YooperSToc.
okckeith
Site Supporter
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
I agree Bill. After all it is a Honda. And no matter what you think about the looks, I'll bet it is one bullet proof bike.
ardykay54
Russ "NeonMan" Knock
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2008
- Messages
- 1,045
- Age
- 70
- Location
- Hopkinton, Iowa
- Bike
- 22 Kaw Z900rs 50 ann
- 2024 Miles
- 010432
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
Wonder how it would have been if they hadn't de-tuned the motor? The new exhaust would be o.k. but every time I rode it I would tend to compare to what I had. Need to test ride to make sure!
Russ.
Wonder how it would have been if they hadn't de-tuned the motor? The new exhaust would be o.k. but every time I rode it I would tend to compare to what I had. Need to test ride to make sure!
Russ.
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
That's the problem. It's not the replacement though for some riders it may be a replacement. "Calling a tail a leg does not make it a leg."
The CTX is a different bike aimed at a different type of rider for a different purpose. I have no doubt that many ST and S-T riders could make it fulfill the role of the ST to their satisfaction. Other riders could not and/or would not be happy with it for various reasons. But the CTX is not the replacement for the ST.
Whether or not Honda will update or replace the ST or continue the S-T niche is unknown to everyone except the gods of motorcycling on Mt. Fuji. Like anybody else I can guess whether or not Honda will replace the ST. If I'm right I can say "I KNEW IT". If I'm wrong maybe everybody will forget what I tried to pass off as fact.
Ok then.
That's the problem. It's not the replacement though for some riders it may be a replacement. "Calling a tail a leg does not make it a leg."
The CTX is a different bike aimed at a different type of rider for a different purpose. I have no doubt that many ST and S-T riders could make it fulfill the role of the ST to their satisfaction. Other riders could not and/or would not be happy with it for various reasons. But the CTX is not the replacement for the ST.
Whether or not Honda will update or replace the ST or continue the S-T niche is unknown to everyone except the gods of motorcycling on Mt. Fuji. Like anybody else I can guess whether or not Honda will replace the ST. If I'm right I can say "I KNEW IT". If I'm wrong maybe everybody will forget what I tried to pass off as fact.
Ok then.
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
Good to see you're back to riding....or thinking about it......I understand when you say the CTX is YOUR replacement for the ST........about the only thing they have in common is engine.....detuned............not a sport tourer.......but entirely different...........enjoy your ability to ride.......gonna go to Yooper Stoc? ff
Good to see you're back to riding....or thinking about it......I understand when you say the CTX is YOUR replacement for the ST........about the only thing they have in common is engine.....detuned............not a sport tourer.......but entirely different...........enjoy your ability to ride.......gonna go to Yooper Stoc? ff
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
Welcome back to Michigan Doug, the place hasn't been the same since you left.
Dennis
Welcome back to Michigan Doug, the place hasn't been the same since you left.
Dennis
Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
Mondo
Site Supporter
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
Doug, if it allows you to ride again, that is all that matters. Do what is best for you and I hope to see you down the road!
Greg
Doug, if it allows you to ride again, that is all that matters. Do what is best for you and I hope to see you down the road!
Greg
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 2,542
- Age
- 69
- Location
- West Des Moines, IA
- Bike
- 2022 Kymco AK 550
- 2024 Miles
- 006503
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
Even in the latest review of it in a comparison with the Moto Guzzi California in CycleWorld is also calling it "re-tuned" so journalists who are getting to know it are starting to change their minds, if only a little, about it. They do have some good things to say about it.
"a retuned version of the 1,261cc, 90-degree V-4 used in Honda’s ST1300 sport-tourer."
Honda CTX1300 Deluxe vs. Moto Guzzi California 1400 Touring – Comparison Test
Even in the latest review of it in a comparison with the Moto Guzzi California in CycleWorld is also calling it "re-tuned" so journalists who are getting to know it are starting to change their minds, if only a little, about it. They do have some good things to say about it.
"a retuned version of the 1,261cc, 90-degree V-4 used in Honda’s ST1300 sport-tourer."
Honda CTX1300 Deluxe vs. Moto Guzzi California 1400 Touring – Comparison Test
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
Thank you dennis will have to meet up with you and Brenda for a bite to eat and a beer or two. thanks for the welcome
Thank you dennis will have to meet up with you and Brenda for a bite to eat and a beer or two. thanks for the welcome
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
Absolutely! This re-tuning would actually be better in the ST for the way most people ride it.
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
+2 I'm sure the torque and HP could have been reduced without any gains anywhere in the power band. As it is the CTX performs better than the ST in the area power band where the target riders live. That's no accident of detuning.
It also doesn't seem to need a perfectly straight road.
+2 I'm sure the torque and HP could have been reduced without any gains anywhere in the power band. As it is the CTX performs better than the ST in the area power band where the target riders live. That's no accident of detuning.
It also doesn't seem to need a perfectly straight road.
Attachments
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2011
- Messages
- 1,002
- Age
- 71
- Location
- Ada ( Grand Rapids ) Michigan
- Bike
- '07 ST 1300 & '91 GW
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
In that Cycle World article on p68 they show the CTX leaned over some in a curve but it was already grinding sparks off the right side exhaust pipes all along where they are parallel to the road. Doesn't look like enough ground clearance to them ; costly !
In that Cycle World article on p68 they show the CTX leaned over some in a curve but it was already grinding sparks off the right side exhaust pipes all along where they are parallel to the road. Doesn't look like enough ground clearance to them ; costly !
Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
Re: Replacement for St is on the floor in Chattanooga
That would be a de-tune, which implies taking the same engine and fueling it less-than-optimally to cut back on performance.
There's an old saw in the high-performance motor-building trade that says you build for torque at high revs and horsepower will follow. I'm not sure why that's an "old saw," becase it's really just math: horsepower is a function of torque (HP = Torque x RPM / 5,252). Tuning an engine for torque at low RPM makes it mathematically impossible for it to make a lot of horsepower. Internal combustion engines don't have a particularly wide power band, so the only way to goose the formula for more horsepower is to make torque at high revs.
You can't go fast (in MPH) without making horsepower because that's what it takes to overcome all of the resistances involved. This makes cruisers, which tend to be tuned for low-end torque, excel at stoplight racing and struggle to achieve and maintain high speeds. One notable exception is the V-Rod, which has a torque curve a lot like that of the ST and makes comparable horsepower. But this is what happens when you let the Europeans tune your engine instead of the knuckle draggers.
I have to ask... Who crops your photos?
--Mark
That would be a de-tune, which implies taking the same engine and fueling it less-than-optimally to cut back on performance.
There's an old saw in the high-performance motor-building trade that says you build for torque at high revs and horsepower will follow. I'm not sure why that's an "old saw," becase it's really just math: horsepower is a function of torque (HP = Torque x RPM / 5,252). Tuning an engine for torque at low RPM makes it mathematically impossible for it to make a lot of horsepower. Internal combustion engines don't have a particularly wide power band, so the only way to goose the formula for more horsepower is to make torque at high revs.
You can't go fast (in MPH) without making horsepower because that's what it takes to overcome all of the resistances involved. This makes cruisers, which tend to be tuned for low-end torque, excel at stoplight racing and struggle to achieve and maintain high speeds. One notable exception is the V-Rod, which has a torque curve a lot like that of the ST and makes comparable horsepower. But this is what happens when you let the Europeans tune your engine instead of the knuckle draggers.
I have to ask... Who crops your photos?
--Mark