JQL
Growing old disgracefully :)
In the USA the Goldwing IS the Sport Tourer for Honda...
The other Honda bikes were conceived for different markets
The other Honda bikes were conceived for different markets
2014 Honda CTX1300
- Thread starter Bones
- Start date
Then I say back at you.
Post some sales numbers if you can find them; everything I've found has US Sport Touring sales as a very small niche market in the US. Annual US street motorcycle sales has been in the area of 250-350K units with 150-250K of those being Harleys. "In 2013, for the sixth consecutive year, Harley-Davidson was the number-one seller of new on-road motorcycles in the U.S."http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm
We agree, to us the Sport Touring market is all important, and has maximum "value", but it's Cruiser, Adventure / dual sport, and Sport road bikes that sell in the US in recent times. BMW, Triumph, and Yamaha are still trying to sell ST's though ......
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/06/2...torcycle-comparison-test-review-photos-specs/
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Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
Same solar system, maybe, but with the exception of Yamaha, definitely not the same planet. Honda sold 9.5 million motorcycles worldwide in 2013 and Yamaha sold 6 million. The combined worldwide sales of everybody else with a sport-touring offering don't add up to a million. (That figure includes Kawasaki's 544,000 units, which itself includes ATV and utility sales.)
Honda has made it very clear in its last few annual reports that they're putting their resources into growing markets in Asia and South America, which bought up half of what Honda made last year. I'd have to go dig up an annual report from a decade ago, but I'm pretty sure the proportions were similar back then. I can't speak for Yamaha's plans, but if the number of their small-displacement bikes I see running around overseas are any indication, they're probably doing the same thing. The sales numbers in North America and Europe aren't there for them to be introducing a lot of new models.
--Mark
2014 Honda CTX1300 YUCK!!
I just got back from the Honda dealer looking at a "new" 2010 ST1300. The salesman steered me over to the ST1300 replacement, the 2014 CTX1300. I'm sure there will those that love it, but in reality, the ST1300 is no more. The only thing that's the same is the engine. Talk about shin burn, the lower fairing is gone completely on these and the engine exhaust is right in front of your legs. The adjustable windshield is gone. They have 2 you can get and that is short and very short. The tank area is super wide as it comes back and then dives inside at the back. Another classic motorcycle has left the building. :-(
I just got back from the Honda dealer looking at a "new" 2010 ST1300. The salesman steered me over to the ST1300 replacement, the 2014 CTX1300. I'm sure there will those that love it, but in reality, the ST1300 is no more. The only thing that's the same is the engine. Talk about shin burn, the lower fairing is gone completely on these and the engine exhaust is right in front of your legs. The adjustable windshield is gone. They have 2 you can get and that is short and very short. The tank area is super wide as it comes back and then dives inside at the back. Another classic motorcycle has left the building. :-(
Re: 2014 Honda CTX1300 YUCK!!
It is even uglier than the VFR 1200, and that is saying something! I used to be exclusively Honda, no more. They still have it with quality, they have lost it with styling.
It is even uglier than the VFR 1200, and that is saying something! I used to be exclusively Honda, no more. They still have it with quality, they have lost it with styling.
Re: 2014 Honda CTX1300 YUCK!!
Don't believe everything a salesman tells you. Maybe someday Honda will update the ST or not.
Don't believe everything a salesman tells you. Maybe someday Honda will update the ST or not.
Re: 2014 Honda CTX1300 YUCK!!
The salesman was actually the owner, but I do know what you mean.
The salesman was actually the owner, but I do know what you mean.
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Re: 2014 Honda CTX1300 NOT SO "YUCK" REALLY!!
Too bad that there isn't a new model ST, but the CTX1300 is NOT the ST replacement. And Honda really hasn't confirmed the ST is dead yet. Wouldn't be the first time a model was absent from the new lineup for many years only to be recalled in new form later.
Personally I do like the CTX... and now have one. Most comfortable bike I've owned in a while. On par with the GW GL1500 (owned that one some years ago), or maybe better. Was a really nice ride to, and at, LOCSTOC recently.
Really no engine heat to speak of. The lack of lower fairing means the heat is NOT TRAPPED to build up and burn your legs, the open engine allows the heat to blow away before it becomes an issue. I find no issues with heat yet even with temps in the low 90s so far. Haven't had warmer days yet. The ST engine is in the same place in relation to your legs but with all that plastic covering it there is more heat built up on the ST and that's what burns... the plastic gets hot enough to burn sometimes (for those who have had that issue on the ST). Engine looks the same and in many respects is the same but is RE-tuned to allow lower gearing and more power in the lower rpm range (verified by Dyno tests). Another nice thing about this bike is that it ignores the wind. Rode through some really severe weather (tornado warnings and all) on my way back from LOCSTOC and this bike rides on almost as if it's in a calm. Even with high side winds/gusts and big truck turbulence the bike acted the same as if riding in a gentle breeze. Definitely did not have that benefit with my ST1100, nor the GW.
That salesman is like many others... Doesn't have a clue. Even if he is the owner. True, the CTX1300 is not a classic bike. Not meant to be. It transcends the boundary between touring and cruising and I believe leans toward touring. Just like my old ST1100 is between touring and sport with a slight lean toward touring, or the ST1300 is between touring and sport with a lean toward sport (IMHO). Most riders on this board are not that kind of rider anyway so will obviously not appreciate the new CTX. But as you alluded to, some are, and do.
Too bad that there isn't a new model ST, but the CTX1300 is NOT the ST replacement. And Honda really hasn't confirmed the ST is dead yet. Wouldn't be the first time a model was absent from the new lineup for many years only to be recalled in new form later.
Personally I do like the CTX... and now have one. Most comfortable bike I've owned in a while. On par with the GW GL1500 (owned that one some years ago), or maybe better. Was a really nice ride to, and at, LOCSTOC recently.
Really no engine heat to speak of. The lack of lower fairing means the heat is NOT TRAPPED to build up and burn your legs, the open engine allows the heat to blow away before it becomes an issue. I find no issues with heat yet even with temps in the low 90s so far. Haven't had warmer days yet. The ST engine is in the same place in relation to your legs but with all that plastic covering it there is more heat built up on the ST and that's what burns... the plastic gets hot enough to burn sometimes (for those who have had that issue on the ST). Engine looks the same and in many respects is the same but is RE-tuned to allow lower gearing and more power in the lower rpm range (verified by Dyno tests). Another nice thing about this bike is that it ignores the wind. Rode through some really severe weather (tornado warnings and all) on my way back from LOCSTOC and this bike rides on almost as if it's in a calm. Even with high side winds/gusts and big truck turbulence the bike acted the same as if riding in a gentle breeze. Definitely did not have that benefit with my ST1100, nor the GW.
That salesman is like many others... Doesn't have a clue. Even if he is the owner. True, the CTX1300 is not a classic bike. Not meant to be. It transcends the boundary between touring and cruising and I believe leans toward touring. Just like my old ST1100 is between touring and sport with a slight lean toward touring, or the ST1300 is between touring and sport with a lean toward sport (IMHO). Most riders on this board are not that kind of rider anyway so will obviously not appreciate the new CTX. But as you alluded to, some are, and do.
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BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Keep us straight Bob! Thanks for the insight.
Re: 2014 Honda CTX1300 ... YES!!
First off, if your salesman called the CTX the 'new ST1300', he's an idiot. It is not intended to be an ST, it is not intended to be its replacement. It shares the drivetrain, and in modified form, and that's all.
Secondly, there is no shin burn. All that missing plastic allows the engine to stay cooler. There is no more heat coming off the engine and exhaust than any other bike I've ridden. In fact in the heat of the last few days around here, it's cooler than the ST.
Third, the stock windshield is short; the accessory windshield is tall. So tall that even though you look mostly over it, it blocks almost all wind and associated noise to your head.
It is not an ST; if you're dead set on a sport tourer, sorry, the new CTX isn't it. On the other hand, if you want a very capable tourer that's smaller and more agile than the Wing, more comfortable (to some of us, anyway) than an oversized crotch rocket, and not just another dressed up V-twin, the CTX1300 is your ticket.
First off, if your salesman called the CTX the 'new ST1300', he's an idiot. It is not intended to be an ST, it is not intended to be its replacement. It shares the drivetrain, and in modified form, and that's all.
Secondly, there is no shin burn. All that missing plastic allows the engine to stay cooler. There is no more heat coming off the engine and exhaust than any other bike I've ridden. In fact in the heat of the last few days around here, it's cooler than the ST.
Third, the stock windshield is short; the accessory windshield is tall. So tall that even though you look mostly over it, it blocks almost all wind and associated noise to your head.
It is not an ST; if you're dead set on a sport tourer, sorry, the new CTX isn't it. On the other hand, if you want a very capable tourer that's smaller and more agile than the Wing, more comfortable (to some of us, anyway) than an oversized crotch rocket, and not just another dressed up V-twin, the CTX1300 is your ticket.
Outbackwack
Howard
I sat on one of these at the dealer today and absolutely hated it. The ergonomics were terrible (for me... 5'8, 150#) and the clutch and brake reservoirs completely blocked the mirrors! Good grief!!! What a waste! If you want a Hardly, then buy a Hardly!
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Yeah, most dealerships don't know how to properly adjust the handlebars. Heck, most Honda dealerships don't know much of anything about this one for some reason (especially the one's who think this is the ST replacement... DUH). Fortunately this is NO Hardly, and it is definitely not an ST replacement. Not intended to be. But I agree, if that's what you want then go buy one. I don't want. I can see the mirrors just fine on mine and have a much more comfy ride than any Hardly I ever sat on (did own a small one once and sat on many while shopping around). Personally I think it's even more comfy than my old ST was, but as with most things here... that's my opinion. Just please don't sit on one expecting it to be an ST (bad mistake, like sitting on a ADV bike expecting it to be a GW).
I think the expression here is "hard audience"....
If you wouldn't ride a cruiser or a HD in particular, then it sitting on one of these may just not float your boat......
I wouldn't sit on any bike I wasn't considering buying and this is not one I would consider, not least because I can''t afford it!
People need to accept that this is not an ST replacement and was never designed to be, a bit like the NC700 Integra not being the replacement for the NT700V..... but then not one NT700V (Deauville on the UK) rider I know ever looked at the NC as a replacement for the NT700V....
I do find it very odd how folks get all agitated about some bikes when it isn't what they want.....
A bit like fitting Avon Storms......
Of course I also find it more than a little strange that Honda is ignoring an entire customer base in the touring market.... ceasing production of the ONLY mid sized tourer, the NT700V and leaving the ST1300 to fend for itself for so long..... perhaps a little over confident in their success, or perhaps more shrewd than we give credit for..... we shall see....... eventually.
If you wouldn't ride a cruiser or a HD in particular, then it sitting on one of these may just not float your boat......
I wouldn't sit on any bike I wasn't considering buying and this is not one I would consider, not least because I can''t afford it!
People need to accept that this is not an ST replacement and was never designed to be, a bit like the NC700 Integra not being the replacement for the NT700V..... but then not one NT700V (Deauville on the UK) rider I know ever looked at the NC as a replacement for the NT700V....
I do find it very odd how folks get all agitated about some bikes when it isn't what they want.....
A bit like fitting Avon Storms......
Of course I also find it more than a little strange that Honda is ignoring an entire customer base in the touring market.... ceasing production of the ONLY mid sized tourer, the NT700V and leaving the ST1300 to fend for itself for so long..... perhaps a little over confident in their success, or perhaps more shrewd than we give credit for..... we shall see....... eventually.
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Just a quick note for those who are all critical about the manuals saying you have to remove the saddlebags to adjust the rear shock preload... you don't.
I used the spanner tool designed for this adjustment (just so it would be easier to do) and can adjust the shock preload easily without removing anything. I'm sure the adjustment could be made using any tool that would fit the ring of holes in the shock body but the factory tool was only 14.25 and makes the job easier to do. The tool has an offset in the business end and I just set the tool and turn the shock. Done. Easy. Actually easier than the ST1100 since I can see the settings I turn it to on this bike, had to guess on the ST.
I used the spanner tool designed for this adjustment (just so it would be easier to do) and can adjust the shock preload easily without removing anything. I'm sure the adjustment could be made using any tool that would fit the ring of holes in the shock body but the factory tool was only 14.25 and makes the job easier to do. The tool has an offset in the business end and I just set the tool and turn the shock. Done. Easy. Actually easier than the ST1100 since I can see the settings I turn it to on this bike, had to guess on the ST.
veefore
See you at my intervention!
A British take........http://www.visordown.com/road-tests-first-rides/uk-road-test-honda-ctx1300-review/25452.html
http://www.visordown.com/road-tests-first-rides/uk-road-test-honda-ctx1300-review/25452.html
"It's as relaxing as a hot bath."
Ah, that it is.
Well, MCN did a full review of the CTX 1300 in their current issue. Like a lot of guys, I devoured the whole mag within a few hours of its arrival.
A couple of disclosures... I have not read all of the previous 813 posts on this topic, nor have I tested one of these bikes. With all due respect to the guys who own these, I'm just going to quickly summarize what MCN found - and I hope I'm not flogging a dead horse.
They gave Honda high overall marks for getting most things right ("it does little wrong"), but panned what it did not. They found the suspension was harsh over 1" bumps, jolting the handlebars, low ground clearance (but it did "carve arcs through the twisties with grace"), and the completely reworked ST 1300 engine lacking in power (their measured 73 hp vs. the ST's 106 hp).
They summed the bike up as having "lots of flash, little substance - and little value". The CTX got three out of five dots in their overall rating - one of the lower scores that I've seen in the last few years. With the many alternatives buyers have in this price range (16 to 17.5 k) MCN wondered who would buy one. All in all, I though it was a rather damning review.
Clearly these guys are used to testing the best of the best and have high expectations - and high standards - for anything on two wheels. It is an interesting review, to say the least.
A couple of disclosures... I have not read all of the previous 813 posts on this topic, nor have I tested one of these bikes. With all due respect to the guys who own these, I'm just going to quickly summarize what MCN found - and I hope I'm not flogging a dead horse.
They gave Honda high overall marks for getting most things right ("it does little wrong"), but panned what it did not. They found the suspension was harsh over 1" bumps, jolting the handlebars, low ground clearance (but it did "carve arcs through the twisties with grace"), and the completely reworked ST 1300 engine lacking in power (their measured 73 hp vs. the ST's 106 hp).
They summed the bike up as having "lots of flash, little substance - and little value". The CTX got three out of five dots in their overall rating - one of the lower scores that I've seen in the last few years. With the many alternatives buyers have in this price range (16 to 17.5 k) MCN wondered who would buy one. All in all, I though it was a rather damning review.
Clearly these guys are used to testing the best of the best and have high expectations - and high standards - for anything on two wheels. It is an interesting review, to say the least.
I never take mag reviews to heart. If I'm interested in a bike I go do a demo ride on one. There are a lot of guys that like the CTX1300 and therefore the MCN review by definition doesn't apply to everyone. Lots of reviewers didn't care for the ST1300 either but that didn't make much difference.
Re the CTX 1300: Have previously owned 5 hondas, including an st1100 and an st1300. Am currently on a 2014 Yamaha FJR ES that suits me perfectly. I still look over Honda's lineup at the trade shows each year. I see that they are still making motorcycles, but have no idea who they are making most of them FOR. (Other than the Gold Wing- they still get that right.) It is sad to see.
Norm Kern
Norm Kern