Seems to me that they have this concept of making things look more like large scooters than anything.....I understand that in global sales scooters are huge but not so much here in the US......when most of us old guys upgraded mcs it was from a S90 to a 160 or 250 then a 350, maybe a 450.....etc....all UJM CBs or such.....all looking like real mcs......what we were used to but bigger.....so maybe they think scooter styling only bigger.....don't have a clue but sure am scratching my head at recent styling....DN01 on..............
2014 Honda CTX1300
- Thread starter Bones
- Start date
Funny, I had a friend say this to me not that long ago. He is currently riding an FJR. He was a BMW guy. His statement was, "I think that BMW have lost their way."
It's a truism that as people age, they get more resistant to change. It is what I like to call, "hardening of the attitudes". I seem to suffer from this myself, occasionally. The world, to me, is becoming more black and white all the time (meaning that the I see fewer shades of grey than I used to).
I like to think of it as our BS filter has matured and we see more clearly to the heart of the matter......based on our principles....or maybe we are just nuts
Yeah, that's funny. You can say what you want about BMW but you can't say that they are not evolving, especially in the sport-touring segment. How many members of this forum have bought NEW STs in the last 6 months? Compare that number to how many members have bought NEW BMWs or other brands. If Honda doesn't "evolve" the ST there won't be a Honda sport-tourer.... Period! That would be sad. But, alas, this thread is about the new CTX, the evolutionary progeny of the CTX 700. My guess is that this will be another dead end, another motorcycle without a market just like the DN-01, VFR and F6B. Yeah, Honda is on a roll.
Mike
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Honda will sell 250,000 motorcycles in the USA this year. BMW will sell 13,000, many of which will have warranty problems or NHTSA safety recalls based on historical data on recent and current models. Around the world Honda will sell 12 million motorcycles and BMW will sell about 110,000. So sad that Honda has delayed or ended the ST but they are selling so many more motorcycles than every other brand are you kidding when you say Honda is in decline just because they don't make a bike that you like?
You guys are funny to read. Honda has their stinkers and "dead ends" but remember the K1200R, the 650 Xcountry, the 650 XChallenge, the 650 Xmoto, the BMW G450X, the R1200ST with the funny headlight and no panniers? If BMW motorcycles weren't subsidized by the auto group there wouldn't even be a BMW motorcycle division. They would have gone out of business years ago.
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Dave, I hadn't heard that BMW subsidizes their motorcycle division. How much has the subsidy been?
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It has been talked about for at least 30 years about how the bikes are important to the brand image but sales of a few thousand bikes can't support their own engineering, design, and production staff and facilities much less the parts and service network. It is not so much as funds to to offset loss as much as supplying access to the above as part of the larger group.
Dave, I never said Honda was declining (at least not in numbers). Every loyalist has brands they like to bash and for you that is certainly BMW. I understand that and accept it. I'm neither a BMW loyalist nor a Honda basher. However, you are correct in your assertion that Honda doesn't make many models I'm interested in buying. Apparently, I'm not alone since so many here are jumping ship as of late.
Honda sells thousands of motorcycles and scooters worldwide (far more than any other manufacturer) under 150 cc. Those don't appeal to me either. So I concede that Honda is still the largest moto manufacturer. That has nothing to do with my OPINION that they are producing cycles without a niche. Time will tell if I'm correct.
What do I care? I ride a BMW, right?
Mike
Honda sells thousands of motorcycles and scooters worldwide (far more than any other manufacturer) under 150 cc. Those don't appeal to me either. So I concede that Honda is still the largest moto manufacturer. That has nothing to do with my OPINION that they are producing cycles without a niche. Time will tell if I'm correct.
What do I care? I ride a BMW, right?
Mike
Just a random thought here but it seems like a lot of law enforcement in the US use the Harley Davidson Electra Glide. The CTX 1300 would seem to have a low seat, standard seating position and other features that might make it a good candidate to compete with the Harley Davidson for fleet sales. Could be Honda had this in mind or maybe I am just speculating.
I doubt very much that BMW Motorad is a perennial money loser. I think that sales of the R1200GS/A are enough to make it profitable on their own. AFAIK, BMW is the most innovative motorcycle company, spending more on R&D and new technologies than any other. The downside, is the effect that that has had on reliability and repairability of the bikes that they sell.
To my eye, the CTX1300 is much more the evolutionary prodgeny of the ST1300 then it is the CTX700. Strip the plastic off and you'll see pretty much what you see when you take the plastic off an ST13.
To my eye, the CTX1300 is much more the evolutionary prodgeny of the ST1300 then it is the CTX700. Strip the plastic off and you'll see pretty much what you see when you take the plastic off an ST13.
Except for twin rear shocks, inverted forks, 1500 rpm lower redline, different frame, and possibly a different firing interval.
sundry thoughts--
--in one of those videos I definately heard, "everything is a stepping stone to a full luxury touring machine" ,,,
Honda is committed to the Gold Wing; a big upgrade of the ST13 would cannibalize sales of GW's.
--Honda is also committed to the V-4; Half of all motorbike sales in U.S.A are cruisers.
--Honda is always chasing & competing with Yamaha in racing; I think Honda is watching FJR14 sales numbers very closely.
--in one of those videos I definately heard, "everything is a stepping stone to a full luxury touring machine" ,,,
Honda is committed to the Gold Wing; a big upgrade of the ST13 would cannibalize sales of GW's.
--Honda is also committed to the V-4; Half of all motorbike sales in U.S.A are cruisers.
--Honda is always chasing & competing with Yamaha in racing; I think Honda is watching FJR14 sales numbers very closely.
A lot of it depends on the ergonomics. I rarely used the cruise on my Maxima, but I'll use it whenever I can on my F-150, just because the gas pedal ergos are very poor for me. A similar dynamic likely happens with many m/c riders. I have a throttle lock, which I'll kick on occassionally when I want to shake out my hand or otherwise give my arm a break. I don't ride with it for more than a couple minutes though.
No cruise though on the F6B? Mistake by Honda.
STDaveNW
Dave
By the time this group is finished with the CTX1300 they wont be able to sell it to anyone. LOL
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
LOL Dave. I had to look at the thread title to make sure ... I was thinking this was the Cruise Control thread!
Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
What I've learned so far is that any 1300cc bike, with or without the ST engine, is the replacement for the ST.
--Mark
Appalachian
No, the OTHER left!
And a third option that they may replace it with a 1200 platform? I think it's a 50/50 chance that if Honda does present a new product in this specific segment, that the 1261cc mill won't be at the heart of the platform.
I agree with this. All indications were that there was supposed to be a VFR1200T announced right in the middle of the global recession. If that project was deferred instead of cancelled, it makes a lot more sense then trying to rework the ST13.
My opinion is that the CTX13 is a good choice for the ST13 V4, because people expect cruisers to be heavier motorcycles. I'll bet CTX13 tracks great in dirty air and crosswinds. It has the weight and the steering geometry for the job.
Cruise Control should at least be an option on the F6B.
I installed a throttlemeister on my F6B, went on a 2,000 mile trip, primarily on interstates, and because of the relaxed ergonomics/seating position, rarely used the thing. Nice to know I have the capability when needed though. The aftermarket can address issues for me if I feel, as in this case, the basic GW platform is superior.
I installed a throttlemeister on my F6B, went on a 2,000 mile trip, primarily on interstates, and because of the relaxed ergonomics/seating position, rarely used the thing. Nice to know I have the capability when needed though. The aftermarket can address issues for me if I feel, as in this case, the basic GW platform is superior.