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Article [13] ST1300 - Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement
- Thread starter MaxPete
- Start date
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- 1300 clutch
Replaced my slave thanks to this article and thought I would pass along a tool tip. This is from Harbor Freight and works super for dropping in the banjo bolt. Dropped it once, second try went right in.
Well just a thanks to all. Getting parts in order for new clutch and slave. Hope I don't need more than basic clutch parts she slips some at full throttle and the slave is leaking. She has 68000 miles, I am 3rd owner.
OP
OP
Hi Bill:
The major symptoms of a leaking clutch slave cylinder are all related to the clutch not being fully disengaged even if the hand level is pulled all the way in:
Keep us all posted and we’ll help in any way we can.
Pete
The major symptoms of a leaking clutch slave cylinder are all related to the clutch not being fully disengaged even if the hand level is pulled all the way in:
- it is difficult to disengage the clutch and find neutral when the engine is running
- it is difficult to shift gears
- there is a bigger than usual “clunk” when going from neutral into first gear when stopped (even for a Honda...
) - the bike wants to creep forward in first gear when the clutch lever is held in
- the fluid level in the master cylinder drops but there is NO obvious external leak….at least not at first
Keep us all posted and we’ll help in any way we can.
Pete
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Thanks Pete.
This symptom could be on the very top of the list of things to watch for.
Was lucky to catch my leaky slave (with Larry's help!) after checking the level when the lever started engaging later in the travel and none of the later symptoms had appeared yet.
The confusing part was that the rubber diaphragm was sucked-in in such a way that the level was still showing good in the sight glass. The level drop only became obvious after removing the cover.
I just wanted to drop in and thank everyone for their knowledge, tips and tricks for this Job. The amount of support and detailed instructions made this a 2 hour job.
I wanted to pass along some things and tools to make this job a little easier. Most have already been mentioned in the thread but wanted to just give my two cents.
* I used layout fluid to mark the spline face of the shifter linkage. Then i scored it with a scribe. Made for easy reinstallation of the linkage.
* Used the combination of a stubby 1/4in drive 8mm ratchet and a swivel head ratchet combination wrench to remove the slave bolts. When the bolts got to the point where the ratchet portion of the wrench wouldn't activate I used some long needle nose pliers to grab the side of the socket to put pressure on to engage the ratchet.
* The single bolt on the left side of the slave can be accessed and best seen from the left side of the bike. This is not new information but you are running blind if you try and get at it from the right side.
* TOOLS, TOOLS, TOOLS. You don't need all the tools, just the right ones.
Fine tooth ratchets are clutch for this job. I purchased 8mm, 10mm, and 12mm swivel head ratchet combo wrenches in 72 teeth. Not much room to work on banjo so you will need something that needs little movement to engage.
* Long needle nose pliers of the straight and bent variety. I used these to manipulate the banjo bolt into place to start the re-threading process. You cant get your hands in there to work so these are your fingers. Get the longest ones you can. Harbor Freight ones work great.
* I got lucky and my gasket looked great so I reused it.
* I bought a new slave cylinder vs rebuilding. The cost was around $75 for the new and delivered in about a week from a large online parts dealer.
After getting everything back together I did the vacuum bleed and then tested with a ride.
Everything seems to work great.
Again, I wanted to extend all the thanks to those that have contributed to this thread and especially OP for the detailed write up.
Happy Riding!!
I wanted to pass along some things and tools to make this job a little easier. Most have already been mentioned in the thread but wanted to just give my two cents.
* I used layout fluid to mark the spline face of the shifter linkage. Then i scored it with a scribe. Made for easy reinstallation of the linkage.
* Used the combination of a stubby 1/4in drive 8mm ratchet and a swivel head ratchet combination wrench to remove the slave bolts. When the bolts got to the point where the ratchet portion of the wrench wouldn't activate I used some long needle nose pliers to grab the side of the socket to put pressure on to engage the ratchet.
* The single bolt on the left side of the slave can be accessed and best seen from the left side of the bike. This is not new information but you are running blind if you try and get at it from the right side.
* TOOLS, TOOLS, TOOLS. You don't need all the tools, just the right ones.
Fine tooth ratchets are clutch for this job. I purchased 8mm, 10mm, and 12mm swivel head ratchet combo wrenches in 72 teeth. Not much room to work on banjo so you will need something that needs little movement to engage.
* Long needle nose pliers of the straight and bent variety. I used these to manipulate the banjo bolt into place to start the re-threading process. You cant get your hands in there to work so these are your fingers. Get the longest ones you can. Harbor Freight ones work great.
* I got lucky and my gasket looked great so I reused it.
* I bought a new slave cylinder vs rebuilding. The cost was around $75 for the new and delivered in about a week from a large online parts dealer.
After getting everything back together I did the vacuum bleed and then tested with a ride.
Everything seems to work great.
Again, I wanted to extend all the thanks to those that have contributed to this thread and especially OP for the detailed write up.
Happy Riding!!
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Hi All,
Thanks to everyone for the tips.
I completed my replacement today. Much like everyone else….the most tedious thing was removing the old gasket. I used an exacto knife with a flat front blade very slowly and carefully, followed up with a brass wire brush. I used a small quarter inch ratchet on the three 8mm bolts and a 12mm flex ratchet wrench for the banjo bolt. I went at the banjo bolt from the right side through the frame. Plenty of access with a standard length flex ratchet wrench. The Vaseline trick for the washer stack worked great. I did remove the oil filter but did not remove the speed sensor or the center stand. I’ve read comments about hand size…..I have to order special gloves because no stores carry 4X gloves. I was able to remove and replace all associated hardware with the two tools mentioned above.
It is really not that bad of a job. I hope I don’t have to do it again, but I dreaded it more than I should have. It is a slow and meticulous job, but not bad if you go in knowing that.
Well, that’s about it!!
Ray
Thanks to everyone for the tips.
I completed my replacement today. Much like everyone else….the most tedious thing was removing the old gasket. I used an exacto knife with a flat front blade very slowly and carefully, followed up with a brass wire brush. I used a small quarter inch ratchet on the three 8mm bolts and a 12mm flex ratchet wrench for the banjo bolt. I went at the banjo bolt from the right side through the frame. Plenty of access with a standard length flex ratchet wrench. The Vaseline trick for the washer stack worked great. I did remove the oil filter but did not remove the speed sensor or the center stand. I’ve read comments about hand size…..I have to order special gloves because no stores carry 4X gloves. I was able to remove and replace all associated hardware with the two tools mentioned above.
It is really not that bad of a job. I hope I don’t have to do it again, but I dreaded it more than I should have. It is a slow and meticulous job, but not bad if you go in knowing that.
Well, that’s about it!!
Ray
OP
OP
Good for you Ray - glad it worked out!
Pete
Pete
Maybe a survey is needed to find out how many have their Clutch Slave? How many referred to this thread to do it!
OP
OP
It would be interesting to know and with the retail price of the repair (around here in SW Ontario) running at about $1800-2000 - if there were 20-25 ST-Owners who have done the repair, that would be $40-50K worth of work - SAVED - even if you put the cost of parts at $100.
Hmmmmmm…..
Hmmmmmm…..
Sadlsor
Site Supporter
I only count ten CSCs in the bucket.
That weekend must have been when you got out of the hospital after surgery, and were still moving with limited capacity.
That weekend must have been when you got out of the hospital after surgery, and were still moving with limited capacity.
Actually if you look again, it was a pie pan not a bucket, and there are only SEVEN
Sadlsor
Site Supporter
Aw, c'mon Larry... I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.Actually if you look again, it was a pie pan not a bucket, and there are only SEVEN
OP
OP
I’ll play, this was one weekend!
Actually if you look again, it was a pie pan not a bucket, and there are only SEVEN
....I will only point out that helping an acknowledged expert increase his score was not my purpose in writing the article.
The idea was to help the rest of us mere mortals, including folks who can't bring their bikes to the SW-USA for a white courtesy phone repair - to do this job themselves and save a bucket-load of cash in the process.
Anyhow, it seems to have accomplished that goal so I'm happy all around.
Pete
Just completed the replacement of the CSC on my 2006, 96000 mile ST1300A. There were some problems! My workaround may help someone having similar issues.
The main issue was that the banjo bolt was impossible to unscrew. It was so badly corroded that none of my tools (including an assortment of flex-head spanners, extractor spanners, wrenches or anything else) could get any purchase on it. None of the usual methods for removing a seized and corroded bolt eg heat or welding another bolt on top could be used because of the lack of space.
However, a dremel tool will just fit up in front of the swingarm, so with a cut-off disc fitted I was able to cut through the bolt.
It wasn’t possible to cut only the bolt head without also damaging the top (bleed pipe) banjo fitting, but a new bleed pipe was relatively inexpensive - about £70.
Other points to note:-
1. Removing the CSC gasket was made considerably easier by spraying it liberally with brake cleaner.
2. I had the bike up in the “stoppie” position on my ABBA skylift which made access much easier.
3. Removing the bleed pipe and fitting the new one was straightforward. I removed the left side fairing, displaced the coolant reservoir, and removed the triangular aluminium plate (to which the tubular drop bars connect) which enabled access to the small bolt securing the bleed nipple end of the pipe to the crankcase to be removed. When fitting the new pipe just fasten this screw loosely at first, as this helps immeasurably in giving the wiggle room necessary to line up the banjo bolt through the washers and the two banjo fittings.
4. I find that a “reverse bleed” is much more effective with the clutch than vacuum bleeding. Just fill a large syringe with brake fluid and push it in from the bottom bleed valve.
5. I can’t understand why Mr Honda put the bleed valve pipe right at the top of the CSC. This seems unusually poor design for Honda, as whether you vacuum bleed or reverse bleed as part of your maintenance, it seems to me that dirty fluid is going to remain trapped at the bottom of the CSC.
Hope the above helps anyone who might have similar issues with their CSC replacement or repair.
The main issue was that the banjo bolt was impossible to unscrew. It was so badly corroded that none of my tools (including an assortment of flex-head spanners, extractor spanners, wrenches or anything else) could get any purchase on it. None of the usual methods for removing a seized and corroded bolt eg heat or welding another bolt on top could be used because of the lack of space.
However, a dremel tool will just fit up in front of the swingarm, so with a cut-off disc fitted I was able to cut through the bolt.
It wasn’t possible to cut only the bolt head without also damaging the top (bleed pipe) banjo fitting, but a new bleed pipe was relatively inexpensive - about £70.
Other points to note:-
1. Removing the CSC gasket was made considerably easier by spraying it liberally with brake cleaner.
2. I had the bike up in the “stoppie” position on my ABBA skylift which made access much easier.
3. Removing the bleed pipe and fitting the new one was straightforward. I removed the left side fairing, displaced the coolant reservoir, and removed the triangular aluminium plate (to which the tubular drop bars connect) which enabled access to the small bolt securing the bleed nipple end of the pipe to the crankcase to be removed. When fitting the new pipe just fasten this screw loosely at first, as this helps immeasurably in giving the wiggle room necessary to line up the banjo bolt through the washers and the two banjo fittings.
4. I find that a “reverse bleed” is much more effective with the clutch than vacuum bleeding. Just fill a large syringe with brake fluid and push it in from the bottom bleed valve.
5. I can’t understand why Mr Honda put the bleed valve pipe right at the top of the CSC. This seems unusually poor design for Honda, as whether you vacuum bleed or reverse bleed as part of your maintenance, it seems to me that dirty fluid is going to remain trapped at the bottom of the CSC.
Hope the above helps anyone who might have similar issues with their CSC replacement or repair.
OP
OP
Good write-up Johnny - thanks for sharing you’re experience.
I completely agree that the CSC system on the ST1300 represents some pretty poor engineering on the part of Honda - which is not the norm for those folks.
Perhaps they forgot to take their medication during the design phase of those systems way back when the bike was being developed….
Pete
I completely agree that the CSC system on the ST1300 represents some pretty poor engineering on the part of Honda - which is not the norm for those folks.
Perhaps they forgot to take their medication during the design phase of those systems way back when the bike was being developed….
Pete
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Thanks for sharing your experience, curious, effective in what way?
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
Reverse bleed is more efficient in that it pushes the air in the direction that it naturally wants to go, which is upwards. This is fine if a new slave cylinder has been installed because everything is new and clean and the old contaminated brake fluid has been drained from the system. Even though it is more efficient I wouldn't do it during a regular in-service bleed simply because it not only pushes the air upwards but it also pushes all the contaminant that is in the system, and mostly at the lowest point which is in the slave cylinder, upwards in to everywhere else including the master cylinder. If I felt the need to do a reverse bleed it would only be after having done a thorough flush first.
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