Modern Motorcycles... and Technology

drrod said:
A lot of "modern" electronics fall into the classification of "just because you can,doesn't mean you should". When there are few ways to improve the mechanical functions, manufacturers resort to the "electronics" to entice people to upgrade to a newer model.
Click to expand...
Like many EV cars. Nothing to do with it being an EV. On many EV's the door latches are electricaly operated. If there is no electricity the door can't be opened. They all have an emergency mechanical release for emergencies. These are usually hidden under a trim panel somewhere and most people have no idea where they are. Many don't have them foe the rear passenger doors. When I saw this I had to ask myself why do the door mechanisms need to be electric just because it is an EV. They don't. I can't even see how it is a money saver as they need a secondary mechanical emergency latch. Tech for tech sake is all.
 
drrod said:
And yes, I do realize there are things on the ST that, if fail, will also disable the bike but at least there are fewer of them.
Click to expand...
My '22 1250 GSA has a nifty but completely unnecessary "feature" called Hill Assist or similar, and automagically senses when you come to a stop on an incline, and will apply the brakes for you.

I suppose that may be so that you can put both feet on the ground, and pick your nose or apply your eye liner with your right hand, rather than hold the brake lever to avoid rolling backwards - or forward - down the hill.

But that also means you have to factor in extra finesse getting into the friction zone going uphill, in order to release the brakes without stalling.

Once I messed it up stopping on a hill at a traffic light, stalled the engine, and instantly got an ⚠️ alert on the TFT to the effect of some engine calibration error, and to proceed to my nearest authorized BMW facility. Not just any old UNauthorized BMW facility mind you, oh no. Only the nearest "authorized" BMW facility.

And it would not start. And it would not start, and it would not start. I had to wave the cars behind me around, before the light changed to red again.

Once it turned back to red, i tried to clear the alert with the wonder wheel, but it took several attempts to make it disappear, and then it finally permitted me to start the motor again. I was rather frustrated, not knowing which safety feature i had so annoyed in my ignorance, made worse with the knowledge I was holding up traffic.

Later that evening, I did a full scan of the bike's system with my GS-911. Nothing was recorded.

The preceding events were related here, to illustrate the possible consequences of heavy-handed, unnecessary electronic wizardry on a .modern motorcycle, with the possibility of disabling your ride.

In simpler times, a man could just hold the bike on a hill with either brake, and then roll on the throttle while releasing the brake and clutch.
 
Last edited:
Mellow said:
... know how to maintain them.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly what they don't want you to...

I'm with tech as long as it assists me, silently, unobtrusive, in the background...
Not if it starts to uselessly waste my time, hinders or annoys me in any ways...

An ECU requiring to phone home before "permitting me"(?!!!) to change brake pads, brake fluids or engine oil?!... nope...

A 20 years old, plain Quest-I, too dumb to do anything else that I'd instructed it to?... yes...
A satnav creating havoc if I only dare to start more then 3 feet off the first waypoint, or leave a route for whatever reason only to drive exactly back into it?!... nah...

The high contrast of analogue instruments I don't need to decipher to be aware of proper conditions just by the angle of the hands... yes...
That in case of failure each those instruments can be replaced individually for a very reasonable price... a definite yes...

The glare of a funky TFT screen messing up my night vision, can't be read in glaring sun plus has an EM field killing any GPS reception nearby... nope...
That replacing that darn thing over a de-laminating, bubbling front glass (NT1100...) will hit you with eye watering € 3600,-... definitely nope...

TLGO...

And while at it:

Safety Gate: the EU rapid alert system for dangerous non-food products

ec.europa.eu ec.europa.eu

but of course... all fake news... eh? :sneaky:
 
Last edited:
Sadlsor said:
I suppose that may be so that you can put both feet on the ground, and pick your nose or apply your eye liner with your right hand, rather than hold the brake lever to avoid rolling backwards - or forward - down the hill.
Click to expand...
To be fair, though, there can be situations where any combination of the hill too steep, gravelly or slick road, pulling a trailer, etc., where the front tire can slide down the hill.

There is a video of that happening with a bike pulling a trailer and not timing the stop quite right. The bike rolled back with the front brake fully locked and the tire skidding.
 
With all this technology being offered on bikes, why isn’t self cancelling turn signals a part of the mix? I had a 1985 Suzuki Madura that had that feature, it was simple…once you turned on the signal it would automatically turn off once it met one of two conditions, a) 30 second timer or b) the bike travelled 100’. I had a 1971 Triumph Bonneville that had a self cancelling turn signal, it functioned extremely well, with next to zero electronic tech involved! (Hand signal). ;)
We’ve all been that rider that absentmindedly not turned off the signal once a turn has been completed having left it on for miles, annoying or confusing others wether they are actually going to turn or not.
I like electronic ignition, cruise control, disk brakes, trip meters, fuel gauge, heated grips, ambient temperature gauge, GPS, adjustable suspension (manual). I’m rather comfortable with the above mentioned technology. I just wonder why self cancelling turn signals hasn’t become standard equipment on new motorcycles.
 
kiltman said:
With all this technology being offered on bikes, why isn’t self cancelling turn signals a part of the mix?
Click to expand...
The RT and GSA have that... You can even change how long they are on before self cancelling for a lane change - short press. A long press is a normal turn that won't cancel until the bike has turned and gone a certain distance or time - I can't remember that one.
 
Larry Fine said:
To be fair, though, there can be situations where any combination of the hill too steep, gravelly or slick road, pulling a trailer, etc., where the front tire can slide down the hill.

There is a video of that happening with a bike pulling a trailer and not timing the stop quite right. The bike rolled back with the front brake fully locked and the tire skidding.
Click to expand...
I've seen that video, a man on a Harley and his wife on an RT. Two Wheels Big Life, or something like that, is his YouTube channel. I've watched several of their travel camping videos.

At least in my case, if it causes the engine to demand shop attention before starting, what have we won? We get to sit, stuck on an immobilized bike, unable to move away even if we remain upright. His event was simple Rider error (technique), and while we can say my event was my mistake also, I could have recovered from a stall.

No, I will maintain that this "feature" neatly falls into Martin's - and my - definition of obtrusive. Now, in fairness, I believe I can turn off the Hill Assist under Settings, somewhere in the BMW labyrinthine menu structure. Further, I have used this quite often by now, but it completely alters the friction zone when it engages.
 
Sadlsor said:
I believe I can turn off the Hill Assist under Settings, somewhere in the BMW labyrinthine menu structure.
Click to expand...
Probably the first thing I did on my BMWs. Never liked how hill assist worked and I'd use is so infrequently that I'd forget how to deal with it... some love it...
 
drrod said:
A lot of "modern" electronics fall into the classification of "just because you can,doesn't mean you should". When there are few ways to improve the mechanical functions, manufacturers resort to the "electronics" to entice people to upgrade to a newer model.
Click to expand...
I love keys, hate fobs. and push button starters. My new Camry has a fob. I leave it laying on the console. The other day we went to the grocery. I grabbed the fob, got out and started to walk away...and my wife reminded me the car was still running
 
Of course all this could be avoided if riders/drivers , #1, learned to ride/drive property in the first place. And #2 paid attention to the task at hand instead of relying on technology to do the job while they are talking or texting or putting on makeup or any of the other endless list of thing people do when they are supposed to be driving.Too many young people rely on these things to operate their vehicles. I personally spend a few minutes every time I drive my car turning off alot of these assistances before I leave the driveway. Fortunately I have that option. My wifes car brakes for no known reason on the hiway, yes the dealer have checked into the problem but no explanation, it also shuts off the engine at every stop, to save the planet and the doors lock after you've unlocked them almost immediately. Both vehicles are "keyless" making them the target of car thieves that can simply copy the key anyway, remotely with a simple scanner they bought online. My neighbor has an electric Hummer that he refers to as "the spaceship" it does everything on its own. He's had several frights, where if he hadn't been paying attention all that tech probably would have cause serious injury/damage to himself and/or others.
There is a place for technical improvements, as long as it doesn't replace the operators own skills and decision making. Leaning to operate a large missile you are on or in with personally developed skills is paramount in the safety to yourself and the people around you. I ask you, if I push the self park feature in my car and it runs into another vehicle or person as it's preforming it's task, who's responsible? You or the manufacturer of the vehicle? I can tell you who the manufacturer will blame.
Yes there are amazing technical advances made every day that make life better and safer, but common sense and skill sets are still the best way home safely.
 
Our newest work vehicles have the big screen that controls everything. The entire dash is a screen. Lose those screens and you lose Nav, HVAC, Heated seats/wheel, cellphone connectivity, music/radio. We have had two trucks lose Body Control Modules (BCM). One truck did very random weird stuff, but everything sorta kept working, at least part time. The other one was no HVAC, radio, lights-interior/exterior, dash instruments, etc. It still ran, but thats about it. I fail to see how integrating all of the systems into one failure point is a good idea.

Tech for techs sake. Fuel pump control modules. Little VFDs that vary fuel pressure based on demand so the fuel system can be returnless. Cheaper for the OEM? Or is it for emissions? When it dies, you are dead on the road. Yes, I understand that a fuel pump can do the same thing. But a fuel pump and mechanical regulator are easy to change. Some fuel pump control modules need to be electronically "coded" to the vehicle to function. You aren't fixing that. Its gone as far as window switches that need to be "coded" to the vehicle, guess what? BCM! How about thermostats that are electronic? How does that make sense? Take an incredibly reliable mechanical device and make it complex and much more prone to failure.

I realize that not many motorcycles are quite this bad yet. But it is certainly moving that way. I like that company vehicle I drive with all that convenience stuff on it. But when it breaks I toss the keys to the Service desk, and go get another vehicle. I won't own that stuff for my personal vehicles. I have to approve the repair invoices, I see what this stuff costs. Unfortunately this means I'm stuck with older vehicles and dealing with that. There appears no other option at this point.
 
Northerntour said:
my car and it runs into another vehicle or person as it's preforming it's task, who's responsible?
Click to expand...
Who has the driver’s license? You or the car? I think look at them as aids not replacement for your attentions. The automatic braking has saved my butt a couple of times and also annoyed me a few times, it doesn’t seem to understand right turning vehicles have left your path so brakes even though your path is clear. Overall I am in favour of the tech.
 
I’m not anti-tech, at all, so long as it is useful and reliable. For Honda, I think they have perfected the DCT to a degree that I would trust getting a bike with one. As far as all the other gizmos (GPS, BT audio, cruise control)- they are all niceties but not to the degree of getting another bike just to have them. I have BT controllers on all 3 bikes for my BT earpieces (Plugfones) as well as GoCruise throttle locks and a bracket for my Garmin GPS (which in truth I don’t use all that much)- same as bikes with dedicated items like this, no, but definitely cheaper.

As far as cars go, one of my primary use cars is an MR2 Spyder (now 20 years old)- manual transmission, power windows, locks, mirrors, ABS, and aftermarket cruise control, but overall, a pretty uncomplicated car (Toyota simple with the 1.8L engine used in older Corollas), so I trust it completely and work on it myself. I’ll likely keep that til I die. Every time you can get something new, as nice as it may be, it’s a whole new set of variables, some for the good, and some not so good. Maintenance can be problematic and expensive, depending on the model of bike or car you buy. I would not consider an EV because they can be electronically buggy and techs may not have either the know how or the backing from the company with enough solutions for the problems that arise. Then your vehicle may be effectively bricked. I agree with electric door handles being ridiculous because if they fail, you’re stuck, and it’s a solution for which there was never a problem. I would consider a Honda or Toyota hybrid since they’ve been building them long enough that they have the formula (mostly) buttoned down. I would not want to go back to a time of having to adjust points/condenser and non iridium plugs that need frequent changes (my first car, an older Toyota, had these, and they would stay in adjustment for, I don’t know, just a few miles or so), or go back to a car with a carburetor (my STs have them but I’ve never had an issue with them)- has anyone ever used ether spray to start a carbureted car? Can you say huge fire risk???

For now, I choose to stay with what I know and can work on myself. Plus, I’m now old(er) and cheap.
 
I'm mostly a Luddite. I like old trucks with manual everything. I hate all the computer crap on vehicles. I miss my '89 F-150.

A buddy of mine recently had to get a loaner Lexus while his was being fixed. This one had a facial recognition system that wouldn't let him start the car unless it scanned his face first. It also gave warnings like "Inattentive Driver!" whenever he looked to the side and not directly in front while driving. Of course, every move that he made was carefully logged into a "black box" for use by the car manufacturer, law enforcement, and the insurance company.

My brother rented us a new Wagoneer in Moab. We didn't even know how to start it. Once we finally figured that out, we had no idea how to put it in gear. We never could figure out the nav or climate control system. It was the dumbest most over-complicated thing ever. His Bronco wasn't far behind with all the doodads.

I had a 1970s Bonneville ratbike. Simple as it can get. It didn't even need a key to start. Yeh, I wish it had been reliable, but I liked the raw simplicity of it.

I don't have ABS on the ST. I think I do on the 'Bird, but I delinked the brakes. Oh, and good luck trying to find an ECM for the 'Bird these days.

There's this same technology argument in motorcycle racing. I remember last year in MotoGP they interviewed some of the racers and asked them who they thought would win the '23 Championship and they all said, "Pecco's bike".
 
Erdoc48 said:
Plus, I’m now old(er) and cheap.
Click to expand...
LOL your bio says you're 60. Think of how you'll feel about things in 2040. That's how I feel about things now lol.

Just think, if what I read is correct, by the time you're my age you won't even be able to buy a new gasoline powered vehicle anywhere in the world. They may not allow you to drive your "old" gas powered vehicles (car or motorcycle) on the road. Speed will be governed by satellite so you can't speed or pass on the double yellow, or roll a stop sign. Probably no natural gas furnaces to heat your home, or gas stoves. Definitely won't be able to have a wood burning fireplace. They may require you to have solar panels or wind turbines (or who knows what) to provide your own power.

I feel for my son, and his son's. The world is going to be so different some day.

btw @Northerntour, on that car turning itself off at stops, my wife's car has that, but there is a button you can push that looks like this @ sorta, that turns it off. The caveat being you have to do it every time you get in and restart the car.
 
We have laws regarding distracted driving (ie. cell phone use), yet there are no regs against manufactures making cars where many of its everyday functions require the driver to take eyes off the road and focus on a screen. Seems incongruous.:shrug2:
 
ST1100Y said:
Which is exactly what they don't want you to...

I'm with tech as long as it assists me, silently, unobtrusive, in the background...
Not if it starts to uselessly waste my time, hinders or annoys me in any ways...
Click to expand...
:) I totally agree, but...
ST1100Y said:
An ECU requiring to phone home before "permitting me"(?!!!) to change brake pads, brake fluids or engine oil?!... nope...
Click to expand...
Really??? My BMW is about as "modern" as they get and I can do all that without having to "phone home".
ST1100Y said:
... A satnav creating havoc if I only dare to start more then 3 feet off the first waypoint, or leave a route for whatever reason only to drive exactly back into it?!... nah...
Click to expand...
Maybe you need a Garmin? The Zumo XT won't give you directions till it synchs with the satellites, but it doesn't create havoc.
ST1100Y said:
The high contrast of analogue instruments I don't need to decipher to be aware of proper conditions just by the angle of the hands... yes...
Click to expand...
You should look at a BMW TFT screen. The main screen is incredibly easy to see and get the essential info from.
ST1100Y said:
...The glare of a funky TFT screen messing up my night vision, can't be read in glaring sun plus has an EM field killing any GPS reception nearby... nope...
Click to expand...
I don't know about a NT1100, but again the BMW TFT adjusts for the lighting conditions. Never had a problem getting GPS reception either. Is this Internet rumors? Or???

Chris
 
the Ferret said:
LOL your bio says you're 60. Think of how you'll feel about things in 2040. That's how I feel about things now lol.

Just think, if what I read is correct, by the time you're my age you won't even be able to buy a new gasoline powered vehicle anywhere in the world. They may not allow you to drive your "old" gas powered vehicles (car or motorcycle) on the road. Speed will be governed by satellite so you can't speed or pass on the double yellow, or roll a stop sign. Probably no natural gas furnaces to heat your home, or gas stoves. Definitely won't be able to have a wood burning fireplace. They may require you to have solar panels or wind turbines (or who knows what) to provide your own power.

I feel for my son, and his son's. The world is going to be so different some day.

btw @Northerntour, on that car turning itself off at stops, my wife's car has that, but there is a button you can push that looks like this @ sorta, that turns it off. The caveat being you have to do it every time you get in and restart the car.
Click to expand...
I agree things will be different, but I don’t think it’ll be that radical, that quickly. Politicians don’t want to get voted out, so if it’s a really unpopular idea (like you MUST have an EV), they get the bench clearance treatment pretty easily. Companies need to make a profit as well and won’t continue to lose money on an idea that is government mandated (unless they want to go under). I’ve always felt EVs could work under certain conditions- need to be simpler (so less gizmos), 300 mile range, short charge time (like 10-15 minutes), and a price that is truly affordable for the common person (like $25K or so), and the fire risk really does need to be addressed. IF they can solve these issues (I’m sure they will eventually) then EVs cane be viable. I’m all in favor of ICE vehicles as well (and they don’t need to be 1000 HP V8’s either). Hybrids can get 45-53 mpg now and can effectively be an electric car if your commute is short enough, such that you run on electric power and rarely have the gas engine fire up.
 
Daboo said:
My BMW is about as "modern" as they get and I can do all that without having to "phone home".
Click to expand...
I just "knew" that this was going to turn into a BMW advertisement...
And FYI was I referring exactly at BMW with that; you need a certified BMW dealer, with a certified BMW dongle, running a certified BMW program on a certified computer, with a secured online connection to Berlin HQ for placing your "authentication request", so some nerd can check a box, for the onboard computer in you vehicle to release the ABS valves & modulators, f.i.n.a.l.l.y. enabling that fluid change, permitting a reset of the oil change alarm/reminder, or allowing to "train" that ECU to the new starter battery, which of course also must be a certified OEM BMW battery, logged serial number and everything...
By now quite a number of MFG's are running a pretty similar business model... forcing consumers to overpriced certified shops and dealerships...
The consumer's "right to repair"? pah!...
Daboo said:
Maybe you need a Garmin? The Zumo XT won't give you directions till it synchs with the satellites, but it doesn't create havoc.
Click to expand...
Dang! Quite interestingly I do have a Garmin... :sneaky:
A '04 Garmin Quest-I to be precise, still serving f.l.a.w.l.e.s.s.l.y. ... :cool:
Apparently was this (aside the SP3) pretty much the last series they did properly...
Zumos?!!! pffff... :rolleyes:
Actually exactly the units I condemn... way too many flaws, mostly caused by way too many "features" embedded, over-complicated, only trouble...
Just this fall, friend's Zumo 396 fully seized up only 5 minutes into the ride, again!... my Quest? Steady as a Swiss watch...
Those XT's?! Notorious for trashing loaded routes, RUT errors, boot-loops, DOA`s... the forums are full of sob stories...
XT2's only marginally better... Garmin refuses coverage, offers clients refurbed replacement units for a generous fee of € 130,-... plus having to pay the shipment for both ways...
My plain, old Quest (recalculate on [off] naturally) simply doesn't care if I'm 500 meters or 5 kilometers off the loaded route when opening it, it also doesn't care if I leave a running route for refueling, food, sightseeing, etc... once I thread back into that bearing line it just ticks on, without insisting to navigate back to the starting point or such... ever...
Daboo said:
I don't know about a NT1100, but again the BMW TFT adjusts for the lighting conditions. Never had a problem getting GPS reception either. Is this Internet rumors?
Click to expand...
NC, NX, Africa, NT1100, etc... all have that flat surface screen that turns into one glaring surface when a particular angle to the sun occurs...

And the impact on GPS reception, well, read for yourself...

Störung vom GPS-Empfang durch Motorrad-Displays beim XT2 - NaviBoard Forum

Hallo XT2-Besitzer, bevor ich mein XT verkaufe und auf XT2 umsteige, wüsste ich gerne, ob das XT2 auf Störstrahlungen von Motorrad-TFT-Displays genauso empfindlich reagiert (siehe Zumo XT verliert Satellitenempfang bei eingeschalteter Zündung des…
www.naviboard.de www.naviboard.de

Zumo XT verliert Satellitenempfang bei eingeschalteter Zündung des Motorrades - NaviBoard Forum

Hallo Freunde, ich muss hier leider ein Thema wieder hervorkramen, dass wohl vor ein paar Jahren hier schon mal eines war. Ich fahre ja eine Triumph Tiger 1200 mit Keyless Go und TFT Display (Baujahr 2018). Vor Kurzem bin ich vom Zumo 660 auf das XT…
www.naviboard.de www.naviboard.de
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom