Modern Motorcycles... and Technology

jfheath said:
, This is the same company that developed a bit of logic that prevented the car from braking if the accelerator was being pressed.
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On my car it is opposite, the accelerator won’t function if the brake is depressed. Other than preventing a brake stand there are no disadvantages, a brake stand on a public road could attract a stunt driving charge in Ontario.
I guess I look at these features as assistance not taking over the driving, if I cross the centre line the car protests with a slight shake of the steering but doesn’t actively steer the car back to it’s previous course.
 
the accelerator won’t function if the brake is depressed. This is made for two foot drivers that never learned how to drive an automatic trans properly. Never use your left foot for braking. Always use your right foot and then you won't have to worry about brake and gas peddle depressed at the same time. All this tec is just covering up for no nothing drivers.
 
@Uncle Phil said

"Tomorrow we will put on our jeans and go over to the warehouse.
There you will operate alongside the warehouse workers the stuff that you just wrote.
That way when Suzy on the forklift tells you it takes too many clicks to do a particular function, you will understand and come back and fix it right!"
It was a very valuable learning experience for the developers and gave them a real 'taste' of programming versus use. :biggrin:

Boy wouldn't it be nice if motorcycle manufacturers did that before sending motorcycles out to be worked on?
 
Uncle Phil said:
Having led teams of software development (in a business setting), there are often some folks that have no business programming anything.
My observation with most development is the person who is writing the software has never done the job so they are 'disconnected' from using it.
One of my teams developed a fairly complex warehouse management system I had designed many years ago (before wi-fi and PCs).
The design goal was to go from shipping 1/4 million dollars a day to 1 million dollars a day, add no people, and pay for itself in 1 year (and we did it).
It had remote terminals on forklifts, barcode scanning, tons of interlocking conveyors systems and all sorts of 'interesting' stuff.
When they finished I told them -
"Tomorrow we will put on our jeans and go over to the warehouse.
There you will operate alongside the warehouse workers the stuff that you just wrote.
That way when Suzy on the forklift tells you it takes too many clicks to do a particular function, you will understand and come back and fix it right!"
It was a very valuable learning experience for the developers and gave them a real 'taste' of programming versus use. :biggrin:
The system was a bit ahead of its time so much so that a small car company (Saturn GM) brought an entourage to come and see it. ;)
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seinfeld-festivus.gif
:biggrin:
 
Most folk want the latest gadgets, they even want to retro fit gadgets onto older vehicles. They want an "old" ST11 with GPS, heated grips, heated seats, ABS, TCS, bluetooth compatibility, cruise control.....it's just the way it is.
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I don't see it as being a choice between having this tech or not. I see it more as a matter of how the tech functions and more importantly the manner in which the operator must interact with it because of its design. In the example of the people who are complaining about how annoying some of this tech is, why is there not the option of permanently disabling whatever functions are not wanted. Why does it have to be done over and over again at every start up? The answer of course will be because they are safety features. If that was truly the case there would not be an option to disable them at all.

I don't believe that the operation of a vehicle is as safe when very often used functions like temperature controls and radio volume must be accessed through a screen menu. Certain functions that get used over and over again while operating the vehicle should be accessible and controlled quickly and easily without having to take ones eyes off of the road as was the case when twist and slide knobs were used for these functions. If this can be accomplished with a screen fine, but it isn't on many vehicles from what I have seen. The screen and menu is a viable option for many functions but not for everything. Having it control everything through countless menus is a much cheaper means of manufacturing which is probably the biggest reason for its proliferation.

It does strike me as ironic that the goal of much of the new automobile technology is reducing the dangers of distracted driving. At the same time the way in which the operator is forced to interact with some of the vehicles controls is some of the most distracting things that must be done while operating that vehicle.
 
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Uncle Phil said:
Having led teams of software development (in a business setting), there are often some folks that have no business programming anything.
My observation with most development is the person who is writing the software has never done the job so they are 'disconnected' from using it.
One of my teams developed a fairly complex warehouse management system I had designed many years ago (before wi-fi and PCs).
The design goal was to go from shipping 1/4 million dollars a day to 1 million dollars a day, add no people, and pay for itself in 1 year (and we did it).
It had remote terminals on forklifts, barcode scanning, tons of interlocking conveyors systems and all sorts of 'interesting' stuff.
When they finished I told them -
"Tomorrow we will put on our jeans and go over to the warehouse.
There you will operate alongside the warehouse workers the stuff that you just wrote.
That way when Suzy on the forklift tells you it takes too many clicks to do a particular function, you will understand and come back and fix it right!"
It was a very valuable learning experience for the developers and gave them a real 'taste' of programming versus use. :biggrin:
The system was a bit ahead of its time so much so that a small car company (Saturn GM) brought an entourage to come and see it. ;)
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You are a commendable rarity in software design. I've encountered too many software packages/systems in medical care where the end users were never consulted and wound up being forced to use unmitigated (expensive) disasters.
 
jfheath said:
So we play this game. You have to remember I am in the Uk. We drive on the left, overtake on the right. I try to overtake a cyclist. My car spots that I have gone over the white line and steers me back into the cyclist. Now maybe I should have indicated
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If you own a BMW, you're exempt from this. BMW owners don't use turn signals.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
I don see it as being a choice between having this tech or not. I see it more as a matter of how the tech functions and more importantly the manner in which the operator must interact with it because of its design. In the example of the people who are complaining about how annoying some of this tech is, why is there not the option of permanently disabling whatever functions are not wanted. Why does it have to be done over and over again at every start up? The answer of course will be because they are safety features. If that was truly the case there would not be an option to disable them at all.

I don't believe that the operation of a vehicle is as safe when very often used functions like temperature controls and radio volume must be accessed through a screen menu. Certain functions that get used over and over again while operating the vehicle should be accessible and controlled quickly and easily without having to take ones eyes off of the road as was the case when twist and slide knobs were used for these functions. If this can be accomplished with a screen fine, but it isn't on many vehicles from what I have seen. The screen and menu is a viable option for many functions but not for everything. Having it control everything through countless menus is a much cheaper means of manufacturing which is probably the biggest reason for its proliferation.

It does strike me as ironic that the goal of much of the new automobile technology is reducing the dangers of distracted driving. At the same time the way in which the operator is forced to interact with some of the vehicles controls is some of the most distracting things that must be done while operating that vehicle.
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I couldn't agree more, as previously posted we searched high and low before deciding on the Hyundai.
You want climate....there's a control for that.
TPMS......yes that too.
Turn the temp up.....yes toggle away.
Want to listen to the radio.....just push the big knob.
No scrolling required.
And it's not about safety, well not the controls at least. Again at the risk of repeating myself most folk like techy stuff. They like screens all over the dash, it's nuts, but they do. This is about sales, that's why when you spend more you are rewarded with a bigger screen.
On the bigger issue of safety no one is paying attention to the journey anyway they're too busy on TikTok, driving is the distraction not the driving controls.
Upt and feeling a bit ludditious.
 
JetRanger said:
You are a commendable rarity in software design. I've encountered too many software packages/systems in medical care where the end users were never consulted and wound up being forced to use unmitigated (expensive) disasters.
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With that particular company, we grew from 8 million in sales to 300 million in sales when I left after 26 years.
Though the Chairman/CEO offered me however much money it would take to get me to stay, I was done - enjoyed all that I could stand!;)

I was in an auto parts store one day and needed a 'generic' 12 volt relay.
The guy behind counter said (as usual) "What does it go on?"
My reply was "Nothing, I just need this particular relay."
He looked dazed and confused, so I ask him if I could look at his computer screen for a minute.
I did, figured out how the search worked quickly and brought up the part I needed.
He said "How did you do that?"
My reply was "When I looked at your screen, it was obvious that whoever designed it had never set foot in auto parts store. It was clear that it was designed by a programmer and being one, I knew where to look for stuff."
He said "You sure got that right!" :biggrin:
 
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Gerhard said:
On my car it is opposite, the accelerator won’t function if the brake is depressed. Other than preventing a brake stand there are no disadvantages, a brake stand on a public road could attract a stunt driving charge in Ontario.
I guess I look at these features as assistance not taking over the driving, if I cross the centre line the car protests with a slight shake of the steering but doesn’t actively steer the car back to it’s previous course.
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My 2014 Mazda 2 won't accelerate if my foot is on the brake, with my big feet,kind of like that. One reason for that function is brake stands are one of the most abusive things to do to your automatic transmission.
 
When I had to replace my last car, I purposely looked for a Gen 3 2005 Subaru Outback. There's a rudimentary "Auto" function on the heat controls. I never use it, preferring to adjust the heat/cooling manually. Otherwise...

I have a volume knob and buttons for the radio. The heat/cooling has two knobs...one for each side. The seats are the most comfortable I've ever experienced and the turbo charged engine makes it the perfect "sleeper" car...station wagon on the outside and sports car like acceleration.

New cars don't give me any more really than that. And they give me less in some ways.

Chris
 
How I found out that it wouldn't accelerate with the brake on, had to replace the heater fan. Which is on the driver's side of the heater box. Replacing the gas/ brake pedal assembly, didn't get the brake switch set properly, easy adjustment once you know how, painful to get at though.
 
St-Gerard said:
How I found out that it wouldn't accelerate with the brake on, had to replace the heater fan. Which is on the driver's side of the heater box. Replacing the gas/ brake pedal assembly, didn't get the brake switch set properly, easy adjustment once you know how, painful to get at though.
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Whoever designed that must have worked for Ford. I had an Escape & the alternator failed one day. I would have replaced it myself except the only way to do so was from underneath the engine after removing the right front half shaft. The labor cost twice what I paid for the alternator.
 
Sadlsor said:
I've seen a video of a BMW GS that can ride / drive itself, and not fall down.
That may be what we're coming to... Lord help us.
"Yes, Mabel... technology really CAN go too far."
(And probably has, as Ray points out.)
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Autonomous motorcycle doesn't make sense at this time. If you take away all operational control, you might as well ride the Bus. Unlike a Tesla we don't have auto pilot. One of the top reasons I own a motorcycle.
 
JetRanger said:
Whoever designed that must have worked for Ford. I had an Escape & the alternator failed one day. I would have replaced it myself except the only way to do so was from underneath the engine after removing the right front half shaft. The labor cost twice what I paid for the alternator.
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We have a few F150's with the Ecoboost engines at work. One needed heater hoses replaced. Ford said the entire cab had to be lifted to do that. The ENTIRE CAB. Same engines have a coolant pump that is driven by the timing chain. Yes, the internal timing chain. So when that coolant pump leaks, and you know it will, the coolant leaks inside the engine. Which is perfect if you want to destroy the bearings and need to replace the entire engine. I will never buy a new Ford. Unfortunately the other brands aren't much better.
 
My newest vehicle is a 2013. If I had to buy a new vehicle tomorrow I'd have a look online in a couple hundred mile radius of where I used to live in Texas. I'd pick out 5 or so used vehicles that meet my needs and then fly down to see them. Make a purchase and drive it home. I'll take a clean, rust-free Southern vehicle that is older, even with higher miles, than anything new. Mechanical issues are easy to fix. Rust isn't. Done this once already and it worked out fine.
 
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