Is the classic sport-touring motorcycle doomed to extinction?

Daboo said:
Back in 2016, I had some time free and stopped in at my local motorcycle dealer. He had both Yamaha and BMW bikes, plus some others. As luck would have it, he had both the FJ-09 and F800GT, and let me take both bikes out. I rode the FJ-09 first and took it around the block. Halfway around the block, I almost parked it and walked back. I couldn't stand it.

The magazine reviewers could only praise the FJ-09...especially about how well you could pop wheelies on it. What I found was a bike with a snatchy throttle and clutch action. The friction zone was minimal. It was either on, or off. I figured I could learn to live with it...but I shouldn't have to. I had to have a bike I could ride in stop-n-go traffic for potentially miles on my commute. This was definitely not it. In all the reviews I'd read, only one reviewer made anything like a minimal reference to the snatchy throttle. Reviews on the later models would talk about how the snatchy throttle was a bit smoother, which told me it wasn't just me, but a problem with the bike.

I got on the F800GT, and it felt like a glove in contrast. I kept it for hours and the only reason I didn't keep riding it longer was the dealership was closing.

Both bikes had "character". In one case, the character was one aspect of the bike that dominated the rider's perspective on how the rest of the bike performed. Some would look at the throttle response as being wonderfully responsive to pop wheelies...others would look at it as a negative in slow traffic. I've never found wheelies to be advantageous in stop-n-go traffic.

The other bike had "character" in that every aspect of the bike was great. None stood out, but they all blended together. My F800GT always felt like an extension of me. If I wanted to just relax in city traffic, it'd do that without any fuss. If I wanted to keep up with fast riders, it would do that too without any fuss. That's the "character" I want.

Chris
Click to expand...
It amazes me with the exception of the FJR how Yamaha can get fueling and throttle response so wrong.

Daboo I was a bit surprised when earlier you said or implied the F800GT didn't have character. I know the term is subjective but to me the F800GT is a bike with character. It performs beyond it's spec sheet, is engaging to ride, and transmits feel to the rider. I will qualify that by adding transmits feel to the rider in a good way. It is also a bike you enjoy having in your garage and just looking at. Just my opinion.

This whole thing about character and unreliability brings several older bikes to mind. Some pre some post Japanese bike market dominance. I'll pick 2 as an example, a BSA 650 and a Ducati ST2 sport tourer because once upon a time this thread was about sport touring. Both of those bikes from the day they left their respective factories were real Piles O S as were most of the bikes that left said factories. There was a reason those companies either went bust or got bought up by other companies. There were the few who continued to ride them in spite of the bikes short comings as if it was a badge of honor not to admit the bikes were Piles O S. Maybe that is where the word character became synonymous with unreliability? The UJM having zero character certainly may have helped the blending of the two words, I don't know. In this day and age if a manufacturer is making an unreliable bike with or without character they aren't going to be around too long.

One thing about this thread, before it I had to stop and think about spelling the word character while typing. I'm over that now.
 
Character often seems to be used as a means of dismissing the importance of what are really short-comings and outright fails by the designers of the product.
Years ago I rode a Buell sport tourer many times. I think it was called an ST3, or a Thunderbolt, I can't remember it moniker. It was Buell's premier sport touring motorcycle of the time, equipped with fairings, windshield, panniers, etc.. It was often referred to as having character by the people who reviewed them and those who liked them. It ran great once it was warmed up. It was light, very powerful, very fast, very agile in the curves. When it was cold and running on choke and fast idle that big V-Twin vibrated so much that the bike literally jumped up and down on the side-stand as the motorcycle hopped across the ground. Someone had to stand beside it to keep an eye on it. Once it was warmed up and at base idle you still couldn't leave it running unattended as it still vibrated so much that it jumped up and down on the side-stand. Once warmed up it was very smooth above 3,000 or so RPM. It had a seat that was a pure torture tool. I know that most people find the OEM seat on any motorcycle to be marginal at best and they get upgraded but this one was in a whole other league by itself. No one who ever rode it could stand being on it for more than 45 minutes at a time. It was pure agony, and this from a motorcycle that was marketed as a long-distance sport touring motorcycle. Despite how light, powerful, agile, and fun it was to ride it was impossible to overcome its character and use it for anything but short rides to the local coffee shop. It was not around for very long, it got sold after the first riding season.

Having character to the point where a motorcycle is either not enjoyable, or enjoyable in such short stints as to be quite useless, is the kind of character that I can do with out.
 
Uncle Phil said:
Had to when I was in the USMC to get my 73 Triumph on base (a lot younger with quicker reflexes).
They set up a series of cones that gradually narrowed until just room enough for the bike to go through.
You had to pull up, come to a full stop, and then you could go when the 'inspector' clapped his hands (he watched the spokes of your front wheel).
If you knocked over a cone or put your foot down, you failed and did not get on the base.
They also had a line of 'inspectors' along an old runway where you took off like a mad banshee.
One of them would step out and you had to do a panic stop and stay upright (before the days of ABS on bikes).
And there were some more 'tests' like that.
They basically did not want motorcycles on that base and did their best to insure that.
But I passed and got my sticker to go on base! ;)
Click to expand...
hmm... throttle walking, trial stop, riding a very narrow 8 very slowly... all actually part of the MC license test over here...
 
Andrew Shadow said:
Character often seems to be used as a means of dismissing the importance of what are really short-comings and outright fails by the designers of the product.
Years ago I rode a Buell sport tourer many times. I think it was called an ST3, or a Thunderbolt, I can't remember it moniker. It was Buell's premier sport touring motorcycle of the time, equipped with fairings, windshield, panniers, etc.. It was often referred to as having character by the people who reviewed them and those who liked them. It ran great once it was warmed up. It was light, very powerful, very fast, very agile in the curves. When it was cold and running on choke and fast idle that big V-Twin vibrated so much that the bike literally jumped up and down on the side-stand as the motorcycle hopped across the ground. Someone had to stand beside it to keep an eye on it. Once it was warmed up and at base idle you still couldn't leave it running unattended as it still vibrated so much that it jumped up and down on the side-stand. Once warmed up it was very smooth above 3,000 or so RPM. It had a seat that was a pure torture tool. I know that most people find the OEM seat on any motorcycle to be marginal at best and they get upgraded but this one was in a whole other league by itself. No one who ever rode it could stand being on it for more than 45 minutes at a time. It was pure agony, and this from a motorcycle that was marketed as a long-distance sport touring motorcycle. Despite how light, powerful, agile, and fun it was to ride it was impossible to overcome its character and use it for anything but short rides to the local coffee shop. It was not around for very long, it got sold after the first riding season.

Having character to the point where a motorcycle is either not enjoyable, or enjoyable in such short stints as to be quite useless, is the kind of character that I can do with out.
Click to expand...
My 650 Yamaha twins were like that. They would walk themselves across the garage floor idling. If you held onto one side of the bars it would turn itself around for you. They were vibrating beasts, with 360 firing and no counter balancers. Character? Lol

I still enjoyed them though, and ended up owning 3 of them over the years, a 73, a 79 and an 81 Special.
 
Last edited:
Donk said:
...Daboo I was a bit surprised when earlier you said or implied the F800GT didn't have character. I know the term is subjective but to me the F800GT is a bike with character. It performs beyond it's spec sheet, is engaging to ride, and transmits feel to the rider. I will qualify that by adding transmits feel to the rider in a good way. It is also a bike you enjoy having in your garage and just looking at. Just my opinion....
Click to expand...

Andrew Shadow said:
Character often seems to be used as a means of dismissing the importance of what are really short-comings and outright fails by the designers of the product...
Click to expand...
My comment about the F800GT having no character was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Things don't always come across when you type the words, like you intended. ;)

My F800GT was an incredible bike. Just the looks alone was amazing. In the first six months, I had more complete strangers come up to me to say how much they liked the looks than all the other bikes I've had in total. I was trying to get on the road one morning in Wyoming and two men came up and wanted to talk about it for about 30 minutes. I couldn't get rid of them!

On a spec sheet, it didn't come out on top. There were always other bikes with more horsepower, better specs on the suspension, etc. But the sum was far more than the individual numbers. With all the other bikes, I'd need a nap after a long ride, like when coming home from Artist Point. The first time I took the F800GT to Artist Point and was coming home, I was thinking about the nap when I got home...and realizing I wasn't tired at all. In fact, when I got home, I mowed the lawn. That's a 2-3 hour job.

The newer F900XR is much like the older F800GT...except a wee bit better. Does it have character? Not in the sense of what Andrew wrote about. If you check off a spec sheet in comparison with other bikes, you'll find it doesn't score on top in any one particular category. But the sum of the parts is more than the individual numbers. It's extremely easy to ride in town and in traffic. And yet I surprised myself riding back from Heather Meadows. I normally keep my speed within 5-10 mph of the limit. But before I had gone halfway home and hit the inevitable traffic this area has, I had knocked 12 minutes off my ETA. I wasn't trying to ride fast, and felt I could've gone much faster than I did. It just felt so natural and effortless.

Is that a lack of character? Or the character we'd all like to find? ;)

Chris
 
Another 314 miles today on my NC700X. With a few mods to increase touring comfort, if you manage wind and get the seat, bars, grips in the right places any bike is a bike you can go places on. Or just ride for a while on a perfect fall day.

IMG_4817.jpeg
 
Sadlsor said:
Is that one of those sand worms we saw in the movie Dune?
Click to expand...
I admit I never read the book or saw the movie. It's an external fuel tank for the Space Shuttle. It has been sitting for years in the port of Green Cove Springs, FL. This one was used for ground testing components and never flew.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
It had a seat that was a pure torture tool. I know that most people find the OEM seat on any motorcycle to be marginal at best and they get upgraded but this one was in a whole other league by itself. No one who ever rode it could stand being on it for more than 45 minutes at a time. It was pure agony, and this from a motorcycle that was marketed as a long-distance sport touring motorcycle.
Click to expand...
you have just described my ST 1300 without the aftermarket seat] :unsure-2x: It must have character?:tongue-2x:
 
Seats are funny things.... some people can sit on them 10 hours a day multiple days in a row.... while others with the same seat complain they can't ride them for 45 mins without excruciating pain
 
diferg said:
you have just described my ST 1300 without the aftermarket seat] :unsure-2x: It must have character?:tongue-2x:
Click to expand...
Maybe it is your butt that has character, or at least its character is just not suited to the OEM seat.
Somewhere on here a long time ago there was a poll about ST1300 seats. If I remember correctly the seat that was most commonly in use by the greatest number of respondents was the OEM seat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom