Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
Great bike! I got put about 1,400 miles on one over in the UK and Ireland.
Is Honda killing the VFR1200?
- Thread starter sky.high
- Start date
st11ray
2006 ST1300
Honda hasn't given us anything new on the ST here since '03! And there is no way that the new GW is a replacement for my old ST. I will keep my ST before they could give me the new GW. I'll probably go FJR next but so far I still like my ST better than my buddies '15 FJR.
They can have my ST when they pry if from my cold, dead . . . crotch? 
New FJR 1300 and/or BMW R 1250 will run 17K to 19K for base models. I'm guessing lifetime BMW maintenance and service will cost more than FJR. With that, which of the two would you buy if it came down to buying one or the other?
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Jay:
- Yamaha FJR Base model: $16,399. Most pay well under that at the dealer. New last year or two models on Cycle Trader are available under $12k if one is willing to fly-n-ride.
- BMW 1200RT Base model: $18,645. I expect you pay more than that for the 1250RT (as is the case with a new model and the fact that you rarely come across a base model). Cycle Trader shows new prior-year 1200RTs barely under $15k (price down given the new 1250RT). The 1250RTs on Cycle Trader are well over $20k, most around $24k.
Which did I buy? See my signature.
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I am just curious but would you buy another RT?Jay:
^Big $$ difference. The FJR is the price winner. The BMW is the technology and weight winner.
- Yamaha FJR Base model: $16,399. Most pay well under that at the dealer. New last year or two models on Cycle Trader are available under $12k if one is willing to fly-n-ride.
- BMW 1200RT Base model: $18,645. I expect you pay more than that for the 1250RT (as is the case with a new model and the fact that you rarely come across a base model). Cycle Trader shows new prior-year 1200RTs barely under $15k (price down given the new 1250RT). The 1250RTs on Cycle Trader are well over $20k, most around $24k.
Which did I buy? See my signature.
Well TPadden has got that all covered with his K1600 bagger!!!
Doesn't Tom have a least one of everything?
okckeith
Site Supporter
If I didn’t like my R1200RS so much I would. I’ll probably replace it with a R1250RS when the Time comes for another sport touring bike.
okckeith
Site Supporter
He is starting his own museum Coop. Where have you been?
OP
OP
sky.high
Site Supporter
I'm hoping not to wear out or loose my ST and if I did, I'd replace it with another low mileage example, although it would be a royal pain swapping over all the farkles making it somewhat comparable with more modern machinery. I agree the new wing is no ST, I'm to tall to be comfortable on an FJR and cannot bring myself to own an RT. Long live the mighty ST
BakerBoy
It's all small stuff.
Easily "yes", if I were constrained to choose another full-on sport tourer from this list: BMW 1250RT, Yammie FJR1300, Honda ST1300, Kawi Concours. The key driver for me is reduced weight, and of that list, the BMW RT wins that easily. Plus BMW has been kept the RT modern, continues to refine it and it is ahead of all others in rider comfort, function, onboard technology, and specs IMO. Yammie FJR is 2nd place in my list--it just weighs too much and is lagging a bit in other aspects compared to BMW. All of those bikes are reliable (even the BMW rear drive, everyone's favorite go-to put-down of the BMW RT).
But likely if/when I'm in the buying mode again, I won't be buying another full-on sport tourer. If I were to buy today, I'd move to an even lighter/smaller bike than the RT. The choice today for *me* would be the '19 Yamaha FJ-09 Tracer (giving up: some fairing, engine size, and shaft drive for weight savings). The Tracer is a very good balance in weight savings and function and onboard technology.
I would not be looking at Adventure bikes (such as the CFR1200X) or naked sport bikes.
I have been watching this thread for a while now and I find it interesting the comments about the VFR1200X. I have owned this bike now for over a year and over 10,000 miles, and all I can say is that for a SIMPLE machine, no frills it is a great bike. If I look and compare to my 2008 ST1300 it is a much better bike for me. I had the ST for some 40,000 miles and really near got to a comfort level of loving the bike, although it was a good bike and never failed. Personally I preferred my 1991 ST1100 for numerous reasons over the ST1300. But anyway back on topic.
Is the VFR a dead production bike with Honda? Yes it is, along with its little brother the 800 and along with other short lived models. If we go back Honda has done this many times, as an example the 1979 thru 1981 CB750 and CB900F DOHC models. 3 years of production in the US, but overseas a much longer life. The 1981 CB1100F 1 year in the US. The Crosstour (VFR1200X) has followed the same path. That doesn't mean it is a bad bike. What I think it means is that Honda marketing missed the boat. If you look at similar styles of motorcycles BMW GS models, they are selling in big numbers with a big price tag.
I would suggest to those that have commented without racking up some miles on any bike you are at a disadvantage to comment. Buying a bike or anything comes down to requirements. If the whatever fits your requirements head that direction. Are there some features that I think the VFR1200X should have come with sure, electronic cruise control being the most significant. I did put that on mine. Heated grips sure, but the Bikemaster heated grips are better and cheaper than the OEM ones. Electronic suspension maybe, although I setup my suspension a year ago and have not changed it. My wife has it on her 2014 BMW F700GS and has set it a couple of time but pretty much lets it be.
So there were comments about the VFR1200X being heavy. It is 608 pounds and very well balanced. Much easier to move when not running than the ST's that sport another 100 pounds or so, 30 plus pounds lighter than an FJR1300. But heavier than the R1200GS models by nearly 100 pounds. Again this comes down to requirements.
So would I buy another one now? If was still in production YES even with it's lack of some features. But because production has stopped most likely not unless there was a fabulous deal to be had. My 2016 had 4600 miles on it and came with full OEM luggage for 11 grand. I felt that this was a good deal and still do. Did it meet my requirements absolutely as well as some other bikes but at the end there was a clear winner.
Is the VFR a dead production bike with Honda? Yes it is, along with its little brother the 800 and along with other short lived models. If we go back Honda has done this many times, as an example the 1979 thru 1981 CB750 and CB900F DOHC models. 3 years of production in the US, but overseas a much longer life. The 1981 CB1100F 1 year in the US. The Crosstour (VFR1200X) has followed the same path. That doesn't mean it is a bad bike. What I think it means is that Honda marketing missed the boat. If you look at similar styles of motorcycles BMW GS models, they are selling in big numbers with a big price tag.
I would suggest to those that have commented without racking up some miles on any bike you are at a disadvantage to comment. Buying a bike or anything comes down to requirements. If the whatever fits your requirements head that direction. Are there some features that I think the VFR1200X should have come with sure, electronic cruise control being the most significant. I did put that on mine. Heated grips sure, but the Bikemaster heated grips are better and cheaper than the OEM ones. Electronic suspension maybe, although I setup my suspension a year ago and have not changed it. My wife has it on her 2014 BMW F700GS and has set it a couple of time but pretty much lets it be.
So there were comments about the VFR1200X being heavy. It is 608 pounds and very well balanced. Much easier to move when not running than the ST's that sport another 100 pounds or so, 30 plus pounds lighter than an FJR1300. But heavier than the R1200GS models by nearly 100 pounds. Again this comes down to requirements.
So would I buy another one now? If was still in production YES even with it's lack of some features. But because production has stopped most likely not unless there was a fabulous deal to be had. My 2016 had 4600 miles on it and came with full OEM luggage for 11 grand. I felt that this was a good deal and still do. Did it meet my requirements absolutely as well as some other bikes but at the end there was a clear winner.
Yep I always wanted me a BMW but I talked myself out of one. Did to much head to head research and the ST1100 came out slightly ahead. The deal breaker was air cooled and vibration. Today I would not have a problem with a water cooled counter weighted BMW RT1250.
Good to know. Because the BMW or FJR would be the only bikes I will consider buying.
I believe that the BMW RT1250 being the lightest of the group, also has the lowest useful load.
A rider and passenger and some stuff in the side boxes will nearly max it out.
To me, it is a single rider, light load, commuter bike.
My ST1300 will carry all of my camera gear in the side boxes and Pan European top box with ease.
I am definitely over 400 pounds with plenty of power and room to spare...
I couldn't find any info on the useful load of the FJR1300.
For my work purposes, I will keep buying ST1300s as long as good ones are still available.
A rider and passenger and some stuff in the side boxes will nearly max it out.
To me, it is a single rider, light load, commuter bike.
My ST1300 will carry all of my camera gear in the side boxes and Pan European top box with ease.
I am definitely over 400 pounds with plenty of power and room to spare...
I couldn't find any info on the useful load of the FJR1300.
For my work purposes, I will keep buying ST1300s as long as good ones are still available.
Having just recently (as in, last week) switched from my 2010 ST to a brand new, old stock 2015 FJR I have found this discussion to be interesting. 99% of it is speculation since we are not privy to the analysis of things to the degree that corporate Honda is nor their vision for where they want to go. Sometimes you can have all the numbers in the world pointing to one direction but the CEO decides to go in another direction altogether.
Regarding the comparison of the FJR to the ST the posts earlier including the BMW were likewise interesting. When I hopped on the FJR for the first time I thought it felt more like my wife's Majesty scooter in weight (meaning, I found it to be incredibly lighter than the ST) and SO much easier to throw around in the corners. To personify the engines: the ST was "I can ride all day long at this pace and you'll not even think about it" whereas the FJR says, "C'mon...whatcha waitin' for?!"
Bunny trail aside, it will be interesting to see where the market goes in the next 10 years or so. I can easily see the Adventure segment reaching saturation and if gas jumps again for any reason we may see more people, once more, considering 2 wheels as an option. I know I have impressed people in my office with my daily commute and given them pause to reconsider it as more than a "toy."
Regarding the comparison of the FJR to the ST the posts earlier including the BMW were likewise interesting. When I hopped on the FJR for the first time I thought it felt more like my wife's Majesty scooter in weight (meaning, I found it to be incredibly lighter than the ST) and SO much easier to throw around in the corners. To personify the engines: the ST was "I can ride all day long at this pace and you'll not even think about it" whereas the FJR says, "C'mon...whatcha waitin' for?!"
Bunny trail aside, it will be interesting to see where the market goes in the next 10 years or so. I can easily see the Adventure segment reaching saturation and if gas jumps again for any reason we may see more people, once more, considering 2 wheels as an option. I know I have impressed people in my office with my daily commute and given them pause to reconsider it as more than a "toy."
Congrats on your NOS FJR.
@jay 51 Disclaimer, I am not a BMW kool aid fan but I don't think that's right. Since on page 167 of my ST1100 manual under capacities it list a maximum weight of 386 lbs US model and 395 Canada model. I am almost certain that the BMW is more load capacity not less. Yep on BMW website it list a 498 LB payload.
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Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
I think a classic example of this was when Honda was run by Mr. Honda. If he entered into a particular market segment, he was aiming to own before he was done.