Honda DCT: Pros and Cons?

st1300doug said:
Why most want to say...it's NOT a TRUE motorcycle? Really?! It'd be nice if Honda would allow it to be a feature....you could order for several Models....if some remained hard-headed to the manual shifting. Dunno?
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I like to remind the manual die-hards that if we'd come up with a power plant with a wide-enough power band in the first place, the idea of having to change gears at all would be seen as silly, even more so for having to do it yourself.

--Mark
 
catcher said:
I've worn out the first set of Pirelli's on my VFR1200X-DCT after a little over ten thousand km. Riding with the DCT has been great, no regrets. The fact that you can't stall it, makes low speed parking lot U-turns easier. Stop and go traffic, less of an aggravation. But my favourite feature is the ease of aggressive twisties riding. Just trust your tires, and lean! You'll be in the right gear always. The sport mode setting makes for entertaining shift points, and you quickly learn that the computer is clever. So much so, that I'd say it understands the joy of riding! http://en.honda-dct.com/
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Real-World and long term experience ... this alone would make me consider a DCT more than a manual. I can't count how many times I've been caught in a slow interstate traffic situation due to a wreck or construction where my clutch hand has actually cramped... I've driven a DCT car and it was amazingly too similar to how I'd change gears manually on a motorcycle... so... I'm pretty much sold of the experience is as good if not better than what I can do manually...
 
I've done test rides on DCT versions of the VFR1200F, NC750X, VFR1200X & CRF1000 (African Twin), and I'm sold on the DCT transmission. First couple of traffic lights take some getting used to (and unless you switch over to Neutral, no more revving at the light).
But I got used to it a lot quicker than I had thought. Why Honda bothers with the default mode is beyond me - it leaves you in 6th gear at 35mph in no time - and why they revert to this mode at every power-cycle.
First after the first mile on my first DCT test bike I switched to sport mode and never looked back.
 
Woonjas said:
I've done test rides on DCT versions of the VFR1200F, NC750X, VFR1200X & CRF1000 (African Twin), and I'm sold on the DCT transmission. First couple of traffic lights take some getting used to (and unless you switch over to Neutral, no more revving at the light).
But I got used to it a lot quicker than I had thought. Why Honda bothers with the default mode is beyond me - it leaves you in 6th gear at 35mph in no time - and why they revert to this mode at every power-cycle.
First after the first mile on my first DCT test bike I switched to sport mode and never looked back.
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I bet someone has already found a way to cheat that. But, even if they haven't, that's not that big of an annoyance.
 
If driving a bike with a DCT transmission is anything like the "manual mode" paddle shifters on the last few cars I've owned, it's not for me. Can't stand those. I mean, one of the reasons I ride a bike is to go up through the gears with a manual transmission. My heart goes out to anyone with a medical need for DCT or equivalent, just hope they always give you a choice between that and a regular manual transmission.
 
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georgejetson2 said:
If driving a bike with a DCT transmission is anything like the "manual mode" paddle shifters on the last few cars I've owned, it's not for me. Can't stand those. I mean, one of the reasons I ride a bike is to go up through the gears with a manual transmission. My heart goes out to anyone with a medical need for DCT or equivalent, just hope they always give you a choice between that and a regular manual transmission.
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The DCT transmission is nothing like the automatic transmission in a car unless you have had a DCT equipped car. DCT shares about 95% of the same parts as it's manual transmission version. With DCT there is no clutch and the PCM in Auto or the paddle shifters in Manual change the gears instead the toe or hand (if you never made the switch to toe shifters from hand shift lever....those guys are still complaining that only real riders know how to hand shift).
 
It's been 7 years since I tested the DCT in a VFR1200F. After riding dual clutch and standard clutch VFRs back-to-back, I concluded that DCT was a great concept and well executed, but it needed a better home. Since 2010, Honda has introduced DCT versions of other bikes and my gut tells me the new Gold Wing will be the most appropriate application yet. There are still plenty of DCT naysayers, and I'd wager most haven't ridden a bike with DCT. No one says you have to like it, and if you don't Honda still offers standard clutch versions of every bike that has DCT as an option.
 
I like the interaction with the motorcycle when operating the foot shifter and hand clutch. I find it highly satisfying, but then again my cages have 3 pedals too. I really don't like slush boxes in cars and don't think an automated manual type gearbox on a motorcycle would make me happy, although I've never driven a car or rode a motorbike with a DCT, so I can't say for sure. But after 40 plus years of driving sticks and conventional MC's ,I am not looking to change I guess. I don't see the need for "slipper" clutches either, that seem to be getting more popular now. I'm sure there is a small market for DCT bikes, disabilities, new riders, etc., so that's good. For me, just give me a lever to squeeze or a pedal to push and I'll be content. chunk.
 
Everybody's got their preference and that's fine. It's been a long time since an A/T qualified as a slush box. It was fun driving a stick way back when but I got tired of it. There's still a niche market for manual transmissions and in some elements they might even make driving a little easier. But like cranking up a window vs pushing a button haven to constantly shift manually got old especially when it was no longer necessary.

Manual transmissions on motorcycles have been standard (lol) for several reasons. It will be awhile if ever before they gain the same acceptance as power windows. It'll probably boil down to economy (and economy of scale) and education of the riding public.

I'm not married to the foot/hand shift paradigm and look forward to maybe at least spending a day on a DCT bike.
 
I have two question to ask about DCT.

1.DCT have two clutch, clutch A and clutch B, A drive gear 1 3 5, B drive gear 2 4 6, when you ride at gear 3, gear 2 or 4 is ready at the same time, and clutch B in a disengaged state, but the master and slave plate will roll in different rpm, and they will never be synchronized, clutch plate will wear serious. does any one have a long mileage DCT? how does it work?

2.DCT transmission will be based on many factors to determine the upshift or downshift, if you are in a corner, and you bike lean a big angle, would it shift? although the shift time may be very short, but can you feel the interval of losing power?
 
robinyu said:
I have two question to ask about DCT.

1.DCT have two clutch, clutch A and clutch B, A drive gear 1 3 5, B drive gear 2 4 6, when you ride at gear 3, gear 2 or 4 is ready at the same time, and clutch B in a disengaged state, but the master and slave plate will roll in different rpm, and they will never be synchronized, clutch plate will wear serious. does any one have a long mileage DCT? how does it work?

2.DCT transmission will be based on many factors to determine the upshift or downshift, if you are in a corner, and you bike lean a big angle, would it shift? although the shift time may be very short, but can you feel the interval of losing power?
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1.) If I understand Honda's DCT correctly the clutch master and slave plates are constantly rotating at synchronized speeds just that one is allowed to engage and the other is held disengaged. In practical operation there is very little clutch slipping between gears thus little wear. In 5 1/2 years of being in a NC700X forum the only bikes requiring clutch replacements have been manual transmission versions, some as low as 30 - 40,000 miles. There are DCT bikes in forum over 80,000 miles with no clutch pack problems.

2.) The DCT can and does shift when leaned over in a corner. The shift operation is nearly seamless, without a large loss of power to the wheel, and does not upset the suspension. Lack of suspension upset is one the advantages of DCT. Honda released some videos that illustrate the difference in shifting. Wait until these videos show how shifting affects suspension. In the first it's around 1:45. The second it is toward the end at 2:40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N35c9ksEKUo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBfsCSZwsAc
 
Wow, that very cool.
How does it manage off-throttle, low-speed maneuvers where the clutch, throttle and rear brake are all coordinated to maintain very slow speed?



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DavidR8 said:
Wow, that very cool.
How does it manage off-throttle, low-speed maneuvers where the clutch, throttle and rear brake are all coordinated to maintain very slow speed?



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Post #17?
 
dduelin said:
To illustrate how easily DCT handles friction zone maneuvers I made this quickie video a while back:
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Dave, any chance that you could upload that video to youtube? With my current ad blockers I can't get it to load on photobucket.

Thanks
 
dduelin said:
1.) If I understand Honda's DCT correctly the clutch master and slave plates are constantly rotating at synchronized speeds just that one is allowed to engage and the other is held disengaged. In practical operation there is very little clutch slipping between gears thus little wear. In 5 1/2 years of being in a NC700X forum the only bikes requiring clutch replacements have been manual transmission versions, some as low as 30 - 40,000 miles. There are DCT bikes in forum over 80,000 miles with no clutch pack problems.

2.) The DCT can and does shift when leaned over in a corner. The shift operation is nearly seamless, without a large loss of power to the wheel, and does not upset the suspension. Lack of suspension upset is one the advantages of DCT. Honda released some videos that illustrate the difference in shifting. Wait until these videos show how shifting affects suspension. In the first it's around 1:45. The second it is toward the end at 2:40.
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Thank you for the answer. from the video, I see the DCT should very comfortable, but I don't think it answer my first question. I did not see any machinery that can make master and slave clutch plates rotate synchronized. the video show the DCT and how it works, two clutch one for odd gear and the other for even gear, the master plate connect to crankshaft, the slave plate connect to output shaft. the gear 3 and gear 2(or 4) has different speed ratio, the slave plate of disengaged clutch should rotate in different speed than slave plate of engaged clutch. but the two master plate should synchronized, so the disengaged clutch should wear.

but I do trust the fact that DCT bikes in forum over 80,000 miles with no clutch pack problems, may be the wear is not as serious as I think.

the problem of DCT is, the rider did not know when it will shift, it would shift down even in manual mode, it sometimes would be a serious problem. motorcycle is a power sensitive machine, the push weight ratio is very big than car. I think this is the main problem, lot of people does not like the feel of lose control.
 
robinyu said:
Thank you for the answer. from the video, I see the DCT should very comfortable, but I don't think it answer my first question. I did not see any machinery that can make master and slave clutch plates rotate synchronized. the video show the DCT and how it works, two clutch one for odd gear and the other for even gear, the master plate connect to crankshaft, the slave plate connect to output shaft. the gear 3 and gear 2(or 4) has different speed ratio, the slave plate of disengaged clutch should rotate in different speed than slave plate of engaged clutch. but the two master plate should synchronized, so the disengaged clutch should wear.

but I do trust the fact that DCT bikes in forum over 80,000 miles with no clutch pack problems, may be the wear is not as serious as I think.

the problem of DCT is, the rider did not know when it will shift, it would shift down even in manual mode, it sometimes would be a serious problem. motorcycle is a power sensitive machine, the push weight ratio is very big than car. I think this is the main problem, lot of people does not like the feel of lose control.
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I'm the first to say I do not know exactly how it works but there are two mainshafts each with the 3 sets of gears, just as you say. One shaft is hollow and the other rotates concentrically within it. If the operating gear is 3 and the rider selects either 2 or 4 the next selected gear engages virtually instantly at a matching rpm with no change in road speed no matter if it is an up shift or a down shift. Clutch slip is virtually non-existent. The starter clutch on the 1-3-5 shaft is completely engaged by 4-6 mph or 1200-1400 rpm. Under those speeds the system slips the clutch as required.

Yes, the system will automatically downshift in Manual but only on closed or trailing throttle while decelerating and then at appropriate speeds to prevent lugging if the throttle is then opened again. A rider on a manual transmission bike would be doing the same thing so I don't understand this being a problem. I may have a language problem in understanding the example. I will say that in practical application this technology is receiving wider acceptance as each model has been introduced since 2010 and more riders become aware of how it works in real world. It's not perfect but for some riders it offers advantages that outweigh disadvantages

I know that there are many riders that do not want a transmission that removes complete control of clutch and gear and they should not choose a bike that can do this whether it be DCT, CVT, HFT or direct drive electric. Honda offers DCT as an option to manual transmission in only selected models.
 
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