Help removing ST1300 throttle bodies

[sennister]

I only know of 1 other. Kevin, here in Pa. i believe he was out west when it happen. He mention about sub harness replacement.

Thanks for the reply.

I know that SupraSabre had a failure but it was repaired under warranty. Then there is brka13 who I referred Dave to as I knew he went through this recently and he did the work himself. So we are at 4 if I count Kevin as you mentioned in the US. I figured there may be a few I don't know about as I missed the post so I doubled it to 10 or so. There is just way more chatter on the bikes from Europe on this issue. That is why I think that it is partly environmental. I have seen lots of corrosion on pics of bikes from over there. The relatively low failure rate here could likely be chalked up to possible environmental but more likely just due to the fact that it is a moving part and you are going to have a certain percentage fail over time. Not sure of the mileage on the other bikes but Dave mentioned he is right around 100K on his bike. There are plenty of other bikes out there with that many and way more miles without any issues. I am at 100K miles myself and have been good. I load my alternator pretty hard with Gerbing Jacket/Gloves, Heated Grips and lots of electronics. I have a voltmeter and if I am fully loaded for a trip (multiple GPS devices, radios, cell phone, tablet and other stuff hooked up) and it is cold out where I am running the electrics, I will be discharging when I stop in traffic or for a stop light based on the voltmeter.

 

[sennister]

Ditto to both. I'll be looking for moral or otherwise support this spring when it gets warm enough to check my valves...

Yep let me know. I am doing mine now. The check is easy. It is when you have to actually swap out shims that you have some work to do. I am doing shim swaps on the right side. I might get to it this week. We will see. It kind of depends on work load with other projects and how cold it is. While I keep the shop heated (around 40), I bump up the heat a bit when working out there and only try and do that when it isn't too terribly cold out. It was in the 30s yesterday so I stoked the wood stove out there and got it up in the 60s. Too cold to mess with that now that it is in the single digits.

 

[number1barber]

So riding home last night i had the speedo and rev counter shutdown and abs light start flashing as well as 3 fuel bars drop to empty. I pulled in a petrol station filled up and removed the side panels and checked all the fuses. The bike started up and ran fine for a bit then was getting sluggish. i just managed to get it into another station when it died. My stepdad bought me a fully charged battery and i rode it to his yard.
Having a previous leak around the V i have had plenty of goes at removing and replacing the Rad i think 5 in one sitting. Thanks in advance to igofar as i will be going in from the front and removing it out that way. My stepdad said no way it would go when he changed one recently but if Igofar says he did it then it must be possible plus the i assume i would need to pull the thermostat anyway to access the alternator bolts. Having bent a set of throttle body rails trying to remove them on my previous pan i would much prefer to go in from the front if it can be done.
im hoping to make a video of me removing it that way if i am able to do so. The gap does look very small

 

[Igofar]

So riding home last night i had the speedo and rev counter shutdown and abs light start flashing as well as 3 fuel bars drop to empty. I pulled in a petrol station filled up and removed the side panels and checked all the fuses. The bike started up and ran fine for a bit then was getting sluggish. i just managed to get it into another station when it died. My stepdad bought me a fully charged battery and i rode it to his yard.
Having a previous leak around the V i have had plenty of goes at removing and replacing the Rad i think 5 in one sitting. Thanks in advance to igofar as i will be going in from the front and removing it out that way. My stepdad said no way it would go when he changed one recently but if Igofar says he did it then it must be possible plus the i assume i would need to pull the thermostat anyway to access the alternator bolts. Having bent a set of throttle body rails trying to remove them on my previous pan i would much prefer to go in from the front if it can be done.
im hoping to make a video of me removing it that way if i am able to do so. The gap does look very small

Just saw your post, you may want to consider checking the speed sensor switch before you start tearing things apart, as your symptoms sound like a speed sensor switch failing.
PM sent.

 

[seanys]

I used the handle from a pipe bender as a lever to pull off the throttle bodies.

I'm at the same point, stuck trying to remove the throttle body and just saw your photo of this!

Guess I'm off to find a bit of pipe...

 

[Igofar]

Nowhere in any school, class, or service manual, do they instruct someone to pry on this assembly with rope, a two by four, or a piece of pipe.
You may want to be careful following advice like that, as it can be very expensive.

 

[dduelin]

Those of that have done this job have described how we did it... for better or worse.

On a regular basis you find fault in how others have removed the throttle bodies but you have never have described here how you remove them.

We don't need PMs and offline conversations.... occasionally someone is looking for guidance and find these old threads by searching the internet. You are are valuable resource to ST-Owners. How do you remove the throttle bodies? You could be a help by describing your method in this thread or by inserting your method here.

 

[Igofar]

.....better or worse?....I pried until the center stand foot left the floor? Yet you kept doing it?
You may not need PM's or discussions on the white courtesy phone, but I find its a lot safer talking to someone, asking questions, making sure they understand everything, and that they have the correct tools, rather than just posting something like "I've never done this before, but I did it by prying stuff, so that's what you should do" etc.
Or that's what the person reading what you did may do, since he may think you know what your doing etc.
Not everyone should be undertaking such jobs without the correct tools and instructions, just my opinion.
And as far as your "for better or worse" comment, the damaged TB in the picture(s) was from someone who read your post, and tried to pry it off.
While it worked for you, because you may have had more skill, talent, or patience, the person that tried what you did, obviously was a little heavy handed, and didn't have the same results.
This is why I find that taking time, discussing stuff, and asking a lot of questions before I suggest doing something works better for me.
There have been several times, after talking to people, that I found they either didn't have the correct tools, knowledge, or skill, to attempt what they wanted to do, so I would go to plan B, and get them some hands on assistance, or refer them to someone who could help them.
I'm not trying to find fault on a regular basis, I guess I'm just getting tired of trying to repair damage done by folks following certified youtube mechanics instructions.
Instead of doing normal service work, I spend more time replacing broken and damaged stuff, because "that's what the youtube video said to do" or what I read on the forum(s).
If folks took the time to talk and explain stuff before the job was attempted, it would save a lot of folks, a lot of money etc.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

If folks took the time to talk and explain stuff before the job was attempted, it would save a lot of folks, a lot of money etc.

In that spirit, maybe you wouldn't mind explaining your method.
I haven't needed to remove the throttle bodies to date, but I am sure that I will need to at some point for some reason.
If you have a method that has proven successful, it would be handy.

 

[dduelin]

.....better or worse?....I pried until the center stand foot left the floor? Yet you kept doing it?
You may not need PM's or discussions on the white courtesy phone, but I find its a lot safer talking to someone, asking questions, making sure they understand everything, and that they have the correct tools, rather than just posting something like "I've never done this before, but I did it by prying stuff, so that's what you should do" etc.
Or that's what the person reading what you did may do, since he may think you know what your doing etc.
Not everyone should be undertaking such jobs without the correct tools and instructions, just my opinion.
And as far as your "for better or worse" comment, the damaged TB in the picture(s) was from someone who read your post, and tried to pry it off.
I'm not trying to find fault on a regular basis, I guess I'm just getting tired of trying to repair damage done by folks following certified youtube mechanics instructions.
Instead of doing normal service work, I spend more time replacing broken and damaged stuff, because "that's what the youtube video said to do" or what I read on the forum(s).
If folks took the time to talk and explain stuff before the job was attempted, it would save a lot of folks, a lot of money etc.

Anybody reading through the thread can see I didn't pry against the throttle body. I used a piece of pipe bearing against the padded frame to lift the TB vertically with a soft nylon tie. The pipe allowed me use the padded frame as a fulcrum and by it's length apply mechanical advantage to the lifting force. The lifting force out on the end of the pipe would have been sufficient to topple the bike over on it's side if I did not place my knee against the tipover wing. If I could do it anything in the procedure different I would change the word "pry" to "lift" as no prying was done and the picture I included was clear that no prying was done. No one could have read the thread and gotten the advice to pry against the throttle body assembly.

There are no instructions or proper tools in the ST1300 service manual or common service manual to lift off a stubborn TB assembly. There are some steps of removal of attachments to the TB in the service manual but it simply comes to a point at page 5-65 where it says "Remove the throttle body from the insulators."

So, how would you do it?

 

[Igofar]

Indeed, LIFT would have probably been a much better term. (and I just edited my comments so it didn't look like I was pointing a finger at anyone)
However, I've had several people call me, contact me, and send me that picture, asking me why was this guy prying on stuff? So, it just goes to prove a point, that it could be misleading to someone who didn't understand what you tried to relay to them in your thread. Things are very easily misunderstood.
In response to your comment about no instructions or proper tools in the service manual, or common manual about TB removal, of course there isn't.
This is why folks spend thousands of dollars and to to trade/tech schools to learn these things.
One of the very best Honda Mechanics I met in my life time, would just laugh at me every time I asked a question about how to do something like that, and his answer was always the same,
"You spend $25,000 dollars in tuition to learn to do it, why would I want to pay that, then give it to you for free?"
I spend a lot of time on this forum trying to assist folks, and field 20 to 30 calls a day, and spend many hours on the phone assisting folks, not because I'm trying to hide anything, or not share anything, but just trying to weed out some of the folks that should not be trying to do something that is way over their heads, risk damaging stuff, or attempting to do stuff that they didn't understand, even though they thought they did.
When someone tells me "I've got a good selection of tools, and know how to use them", then goes on to explain that its an adjustable wrench, hammer, duct tape, and WD40. I don't think I would feel comfortable trying to explain how to do certain jobs.
I had one forum member, tell me he had a circle wrench! When I asked him what he meant, he said "you know, its got a claw or birds beak on one end and a circle on the other

 

[Igofar]

In that spirit, maybe you wouldn't mind explaining your method.
I haven't needed to remove the throttle bodies to date, but I am sure that I will need to at some point for some reason.
If you have a method that has proven successful, it would be handy.

Sure, I'd be glad to offer suggestions, opinions, and maybe even some "this is how I do it stuff" if you want to call me sometime
I have not found a need to remove the TB's for any common service related work, and have only had to replace a couple Alternators in the past 10 years, and both those times R/R it without removing the TB's.
I see folks just wanting to rip them out to change hoses, t-stat's, clean up the engine, and just Inspect stuff, which is why I won't put anything in the articles.

 

[ASPC]

Sure, I'd be glad to offer suggestions, opinions, and maybe even some "this is how I do it stuff" if you want to call me sometime
I have not found a need to remove the TB's for any common service related work, and have only had to replace a couple Alternators in the past 10 years, and both those times R/R it without removing the TB's.
I see folks just wanting to rip them out to change hoses, t-stat's, clean up the engine, and just Inspect stuff, which is why I won't put anything in the articles.

So when have you removed ST1300 throttle bodies ?

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Sure, I'd be glad to offer suggestions, opinions, and maybe even some "this is how I do it stuff" if you want to call me sometime

From all accounts you are an amiable enough guy to chat with, but I don't have any kind of long distance plan. A call made to chat when there is no particular need would hurt my wallet a little to much and isn't going to happen.

I have not found a need to remove the TB's for any common service related work, and have only had to replace a couple Alternators in the past 10 years, and both those times R/R it without removing the TB's.
I see folks just wanting to rip them out to change hoses, t-stat's, clean up the engine, and just Inspect stuff, which is why I won't put anything in the articles.

But you have R/R throttle bodies on the ST1300 correct?
That is the impression that I have from some of your previous posts at any rate. Those posts have given me the impression that you have developed a method that reduces the risk of causing damage. If that is so, it would be of interest to me and I am sure to many others as well.

Not posting information out of fear that someone may use it incorrectly is always a risk and a valid concern. However, there is equal risk that it will benefit just as many, if not more, and that it will help to prevent damaged throttle bodies. The responsibility to correctly use the information lies with the person receiving the information, not the person dispensing it.
Alas, the choice is yours.

 

[ckbmunch]

With an apparent alternator failure I am at the point of removing the throttle bodies. I haven't done this before and am following the Service Manual procedure and came to the computer after completing access to them but not removed them yet.

Are there any shortcuts here like not having to completely remove them to access the alternator? Maybe lift them free of the intake rubbers and rotate 90 degrees to vertical with either the throttle cables or fuel hoses still attached at one end or the other? I am not wanting to compromise the procedure but I know sometimes there are practical methods that work that are not in the manual. (like accessing the thermostat by removing the radiator when the Service Manual says to access the T-stat by removing the throttle bodies)

I am at an impasse trying to remove the fuel return hose from the pressure regulator at 5-66 in the manual. I can compress the clamp but can't at the same time push the hose off the coupling. Frustrating.

As far as the fuel return hose goes - needle nose pliers to compress the clamp, slip the clamp down the tube an inch or two and secure in place with tape etc. to the hose to avoid having the clamp slide down to the lower recesses, a touch of pb blaster or kroil oil at the top of the hose for a few minutes then slip it off.

 

[dduelin]

As far as the fuel return hose goes - needle nose pliers to compress the clamp, slip the clamp down the tube an inch or two and secure in place with tape etc. to the hose to avoid having the clamp slide down to the lower recesses, a touch of pb blaster or kroil oil at the top of the hose for a few minutes then slip it off.

Thank you. At this time it's hard to remember the details but apparently did get the fuel hose loose, replaced the alternator, replaced all the cooling system hoses, got it all back together and rode it another 70 thousand odd miles before selling it about 5 years ago.

 

[k2ramair]

Use of the lever created a vertical pull on the assembly several times what I could do without mechanical advantage and it took every bit I had. (I am apparently not as big as you. All that exercise jumping to conclusions buffed you Larry!) The bike was lifting off the right foot of the centerstand and resisting so I had to place a knee against the tipover bar on that side. The lever bore against the frame padded by a piece of silicone rubber. The soft nylon loop spread the load as softly as possible. In previous threads on TB removal some one broke off a corner of the casting by prying directly against it so I lifted instead of pried.

It took a couple weeks to get the courage to do this, but it worked. I did spend a lot of time with PB Blaster, 1/8" copper tube blow gun, and trying to separate the rubber from the TB everywhere I could with a small plastic trim tool. It did not take much, but I did stabilize the bike with a foot on the tip-over bar. I was able to wiggle it a few times and it popped off. Anyone trying this should be cautions and take your time. You can make a lot of lifting force this way. I probably had about a 2:1 mechanical advantage where I held the bar so what ever force I put in was doubled. I will be replacing the rubber insulators.

 

[Igofar]

An air chuck with a long pipe, with one end flattened out like a small fan, and dressed and filed smooth so it does not damage anything, slipped between the insulators and the housings, works wonders….as easy as removing your handgrips with air, and no prying, cracking, bending, tearing, or dropping your bike.