Does ATGATT Work

It's simply the lottery fallacy with the law of big numbers.

Will accidents happen? Yes.
Will fatal accidents happen? Yes.
Will fatal accidents happen to people wearing ATGATT? Yes.
What about if they're wearing the proper kit, properly? Still yes.

Will all of that happen to a certain individual? Well, the chances are probably somewhat in line with winning the lottery (with a bit of a skew in favour of fatal accidents rather than lottery wins).

Excuse me, I'm off to ride my bike to go buy a lottery ticket.

(ATGATT btw, it simply feels wrong to be on the bike without it, much like it feels wrong to drive a car & not wear a seatbelt).
 
Upt' North said:
Weasel, your link didn't work for me but I think you referred to this.
Can't understand half of the stats, nothing new there. Perhaps it's me.
According to an article published last December in Tráfico y Seguridad Vial, the magazine of the DGT, a French report presented at the 2019 conference of the IRCOBI estimated that this system is effective and protects vulnerable areas like the thorax in impacts from 30 to 40 km/h. And according to the National Observatory of Road Safety of the DGT, the percentage of spinal injuries was smaller in those riders who used a jacket with airbag (14%) as opposed to those who used just normal protection (27%). In the latter cases, the chance of suffering serious spinal cord injuries is triple.
The part where it refers to the French report is as clear as mud......"it is estimated that this (?) system is effective to protect against thorax impacts at 30 to 40 kmh", what about at 41 kmh, or even better, speeds we actually ride at. But........it clearly states back injuries are less likely wearing an air bag where serious spinal cord injuries may occur. But.......how many motorcycle collisions result in any back injury?
I have a fractured L4, so I know some do but I'm guessing the number is tiny compared to the number of accidents.
I don't mean to sound sceptical, I hope I don't........but I wonder who funded the research?
Upt'North.
Click to expand...
I think the value of the airbag vest also extends to protecting the c-spine but your point about speed of impact is well taken. I'm doubtful that there is any gear that prevent injury at highway speed. The airbag may lessen the force transmitted, I don't know and would be interested to know if there is reduction in force, how much it is and how it is dealt with (spread out etc). I'm am in no way an engineer and my knowledge of physics is just enough to be dangerous but I would assume that over a certain speed, the force transmitted on impact is going to defeat any protection, airbag, armor or otherwise. Granted, sometimes with enough notice/reaction time, vehicles are able to reduce their speed prior to notice.

As always, the best protection may be the grey spongy stuff between your ears.
 
Well, you don't need it till you need it, then you are glad that you've got it!

My favorite story on the subject -
I was riding up in East Tennessee one hot summer day and pulled in to get some fuel.
Another rider pulled in wearing a t-shirt, flip-flops and shorts.
He asked me 'Ain't that stuff you're wearing mighty hot?'
My response was 'Not as hot as sliding down the road without!'
His response was 'Well, I ain't planning on having no accident'.
My final answer was 'Bubba, I don't reckon I ever met anybody that was' and walked away. :biggrin:
 
I'm a MOTHGMOTT kinda guy personally. There are only 2 pieces of gear specifically designed to save your life, a helmet and an air bag vest (and even they don't work 100% of the time depending on circumstances. The rest are designed to save broken bones and skin rash.

The guy in the original post could have said the same thing had he been wearing an HJC, Bell, Shark, Arai, etc helmet and a Tourmaster, First Gear, Joe Rocket, Cortech etc Jacket or most other Snell and Dot approved helmets and anybody that's reputable gear.

I wear my helmet 100% of the time, an armored jacket 100% of the time, armored pants 75% of the time (jeans the rest of the time), mc specific gloves or mc specific boots sometimes.

After spending 25 years in the Highway Traffic Safety Business I am a firm believer in Hi Viz clothing (and white helmets). When people tell me they buy the best gear they can and then I see it's all black or dark colored, I know they are in reality only doing half of what they can do to protect themselves. Being seen and preventing an accident in the first place is equally as important as the quality of the gear they are wearing. This is backed up by many traffic studies and why Hi-Viz is mandated for highway safety workers, firemen, and police at accident scenes. Hi Viz simply works (much better than dark colored clothing) at allowing you to be seen in a variety of conditions.

I certainly believe we all have the freedom to wear as much or as little gear that we want, as long as we realize the risks, and are willing to accept those risks and their consequences, and as long as you realize that you can be ATTGATT and die, and can be helmetless, t-shirt jeans and gym shoes and walk away relatively unscathed depending on the accident.

Talk about protective gear.... people still die in cars with 3-point seat belts, front and side air bags, reinforced crumple zones, padded dashes etc

Our best chances for survival on a motorcycle are to avoid accidents in the first place, and at least wear a decent helmet.
 
First time I went down was in 86, took off the leather jacket because it was hot, hit some wet leaves and low sided. Had to walk (limp) back 50' or so to get my docksider. No gloves or trousers, just the helmet. Started wearing all the gear. I have been down a few times since, high side with ATG, picked up the bike and rode away. last one was a low side with just boots on, jacket on back seat, helmet on side. the helmet saved my leg, boots got toasted, I won a free helicopter ride. I slept at home that night.

Wear the gear if you think you may get hurt when you go down. I may not be ATGATT, but mostly. Ride safe, ride smart.
 
All I can say is that if I hadn't been ATTGAT when I had my rather horrific crash in 2012, I'd be dead. Several members here can attest to how lucky I was/am to be alive (3 of them were riding behind me, thank heavens, and saw me low side, then high side over an embankment). My upper right arm will forever bear the scars of the 3rd degree burns I sustained when the bike landed on top of me and the heat from the exhaust pipe burned right through the Kevlar. Helmet saved my noggin. ATTGAT. Always. No one will ever convince me otherwise.
 
the Ferret said:
(and white helmets)
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I find this an interesting comment. I have always observed that white helmets are unquestionably more noticeable to me than hi-viz helmets. Because of your 25 years in highway safety, I would be curious to read what opinion you might have about what is seemingly contradictory.
 
As for road rash, take some experienced truth from the Queen, Brittany Morrow.

rockthegear.wordpress.com

The Roadrash Queen – Original Article

Brittany Morrow, The Roadrash Queen EXTREME ROADRASH Written by Brittany Morrow Published 10/03/2006 ONE YEAR HAS PASSED It’s hard to look in the mirror and think that my scars are already an entir…
rockthegear.wordpress.com rockthegear.wordpress.com

If after reading that it doesn't make you stop and think, I don't know what will.
 
I low sided my ST1100 in 2010. If not for wearing all the gear I'd have a gash or hole in my head, concussion, need skin grafts on my right arm from my wrist to my neck and also on my back and back of my head, have a shattered right knee cap, and broken foot (IF I kept my toes). The gear took all that punishment and not me. I felt like I simply did a roll on a wrestling mat in gym class. Yep, ATGATT for me. I was only going maybe just over 25 mph! But it was the only hairpin curve in Wisconsin... that I know of. The bike was much easier to repair than I would have been.
 
Peppermint said:
All I can say is that if I hadn't been ATTGAT when I had my rather horrific crash in 2012, I'd be dead. Several members here can attest to how lucky I was/am to be alive (3 of them were riding behind me, thank heavens, and saw me low side, then high side over an embankment). My upper right arm will forever bear the scars of the 3rd degree burns I sustained when the bike landed on top of me and the heat from the exhaust pipe burned right through the Kevlar. Helmet saved my noggin. ATTGAT. Always. No one will ever convince me otherwise.
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Peppermint: I missed going to ONSTOC that year. however my good friend Keith was one of the riders behind you and has described the crash. He always mentions his relief upon hearing you were ok, how initially they weren't aware that you were pinned under the bike and how your ATTGAT prevented further injury's.
Stuart
 
finleysw said:
Peppermint: I missed going to ONSTOC that year. however my good friend Keith was one of the riders behind you and has described the crash. He always mentions his relief upon hearing you were ok, how initially they weren't aware that you were pinned under the bike and how your ATTGAT prevented further injury's.
Stuart
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Yes indeed, Stuart. I was catapulted down a very steep slope into thick brush. Keith was immediately behind me and saw me high-side. He and the other two riders behind me obviously stopped and hightailed it down the embankment to the rescue, but they couldn't find me. They assumed (at least, I seem to remember that this is what Keith told me) that I'd been thrown clear of the bike, so they were scouring the brush but looking for a person, rather than a bike. Trouble was, I was under the bike. I somehow managed to yell something like "I'm burning" and Keith heard me. I think his reaction was something like "Holy *&@!!*, she's under the **@#**ing bike!!" So there were three guys holding my bike up with their hands while blocking me from rolling farther down the hill...on a very, very steep incline. Further complications: 1) I was kind of semi-conscious at first, 2) I was wearing a full-face helmet with visor down, 3) I'm deaf in one ear. Yeah, that always helps. Poor Keith. He swore a blue streak at me before I came to enough to realize that he was yelling at me to roll out from under the bike, because they couldn't hold it up any longer!
Scariest thing I've ever experienced. And thank God they were there.

All that to say that once again, ATTGAT. ATTGAT, ATTGAT, ATTGAT.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
I find this an interesting comment. I have always observed that white helmets are unquestionably more noticeable to me than hi-viz helmets. Because of your 25 years in highway safety, I would be curious to read what opinion you might have about what is seemingly contradictory.
Click to expand...

I cant explain it, but reports say makes a better contrast to background and surrounding environments. Maybe due to the rounded shape?

Ive read white helmets can reduce the chances of a collision by 24%. Thats a pretty good number
 
About 18 years ago, early in my motorcycling career, I slid off a highway curve and I and the bike upended several times, from what I reconstructed. I was briefly knocked out, and sustained two rib fractures (from running into the end of the handlebar) and a dislocated ankle. Got a heIicopter ride out of it. I was wearing all the gear, although the boots weren't motorcycle specific. I'm afraid to consider what would have happened had I not been so attired. About 10 years ago, the rear tire slipped on a slick highway as I was accelerating hard and I and the bike slid down the road for a ways. The helmet was pretty scratched and the jacket had some tears, but, other than a minor wrist injury, no injuries. The bike was totaled, however. ATGATT is my rule, even when another motorcyclist is impatiently waiting for my parking spot and doesn't understand why it's taking me so long to get going.
 
That's all why I bought a white helmet the last time I needed one. But I am considering a colored helmet next time... exact same color as my bike. Don't know if that's a great idea but ... I do wear Hi-Viz gear otherwise and my cool weather gloves need replaced this year sometime and Hi-Viz gloves are on the short list.

And also that is the deal. Wearing the gear doesn't really eliminate all chance of injury or worse... BUT wearing the gear DOES very significantly reduce the bodily damages and not wearing the gear usually results in higher chances of more severe damages. Riding is dangerous enough without inviting worse injury by not doing all we can to reduce or eliminate at least some of the danger. Managing the risks is what it's all about.
 
ATGATT 98% of the time for me...I occasionally wear jeans for short grocery runs to the store 4 miles away.

I believe it is easier to make more sweat than it is to make more skin.

Hydrate well in the warmer months, and ride!
 
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