Are BMW's Overrated ?

[dduelin]

From what I read in ON BMW Motorrad has never officially come out and said there is a problem with final drives in R and K bikes although the raw percentage of problems publically seen in events like the Iron Butt seem to corroborate the internet buzz.

Also FWIW, BMW of Daytona and BMW of Orlando are chock full of NOS 2007 650 Xmoto and Xcountries. The ads they run on the back of ON are giving them away. 2009 sales are down of many descretionary consumer items including motorcycles. I recently heard that BMW motorcycle sales in the US are off 50% this year. That has to be hard on small single line dealers of any brand of motorcycle. When you only sell 13,000 units annually losing 6500 of them has to be unsustainable. One thing I do like that BMW does is make parts available for bikes three and four decades old and dealers can get them overnight. I fear the recession may end that for my BMW. BMW AG already subsidizes the Motorrad, where are they going to cut costs to save the car division if it comes to that?

 

[hojo in sc]

Back in the 70's and 80's I was a real brand loyal rider. In my later years I had worked on so many different brands and models and while I restored some vintage bikes I really learned to appreciate the differences in different makes and models. I am not brand loyal anymore as every different make and model has strong and weak points and I enjoy the variety. There is no perfect motorcycle and what appeals to one may not appeal to another. I really like to look at different designs and try and visualize what went on in the engineering process that developed these different machines, how one make or model was designed based on someone interpretation of what a person would want in a motorcycle. For me this is fascinating and the variety of ideas keeps me interested.

Dan

:bow1::bow1::bow1::bow1::bow1::bow1:

 

[Chris Parker]

I recently heard that BMW motorcycle sales in the US are off 50% this year.

Well that would be news to me... hope it is not true... this is old by 8 months, but for them to really drop that much since this report, that would surprise me.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-news/2009/2008-bmw-motorcycle-sales.htm

As to BMW's bike division being subsidized, I do not know that for sure, but at any rate, I do know that BMW is cutting costs just like Honda and withdrawing from the expensive and somewhat dubious ventures of F1. But they are still producing bikes and introducing new models. Honda is in the better situation from a car stand point as they produce a wider variety and can weather the downturn better... but the Quandt family which owns the lions share of stock of BMW for voting rights believes in the first love at BMW... the boxer. So I foresee the motorcycle production continuing for some time... and if not, there are others out there. It would just be a shame if it came to that because BMW has contributed mightily towards two wheel technology.

 

[Bravo616]

There are lots of BMW riders out there that love their bikes.. so to them, it is that good.. most of them would not want to ride an ST prone to heat and coolant leaks as well as the dreaded wobble.

Just throwing a different spin on things.

When I addressed the issue of dealer network, there are a couple of BMW car dealers here in the Northeast that dropped the motorcycles because BMW wanted them to carry too many and according to the dealer, they just weren't sell that many to make it worth it.

The warranty issue is simple, BMW only offers a 3 yr 36000 mile warranty. Honda beats that hands down and offers unlimited mileage and a 7 year extension.

As far as the final drive issue, more than a few of K-Bikes.com seemd to have had these issues. Not that all bikes don't, but when you factor in the cost, it can get expensive to pay for one out of warranty.

ALso, if you are a true sports tourer, you will burn through that warranty very quickly.

I reallty think, that if the bilkes are so reliable, the factory should stand behind them and offer consumer protection that is a least as good as Honda, especially in this economy.

The one big thing I left out is the built in tip over protection....someone in a parking lot backed in to my bike and knocked it over. The only damage was a scrape on the tip over wing. I love Honda for that, it saved me bigtime $$$$ The same incident on a KT1300 would have costs about 5K or more (guess)

Don't get me wrong I LOVE the K1300GT, a true beast...I just think that for what it costs, I can't see pulling the trigger on one. I guess I'll wait to see what Honda comes out with in next year. Hopefully I can hold the itch for that long.

 

[Chris Parker]

The warranty issue is simple, BMW only offers a 3 yr 36000 mile warranty. Honda beats that hands down and offers unlimited mileage and a 7 year extension.

That is true... with Honda you can extend the 3 year warranty another 4 years for a total of 7 years unlimited miles...

As to BMW's warranty... after hearing a BMW Motorrad Rep speak at the Johnson City Rally this past July, there are changes afoot in that department. They will be offering extended warranties from the factory according to his statement. I would look for that coming soon.

 

[BamaRider]

Take a look at it again, Guy... it's a shafty

I called myself lookin. But that's good to know, I was big time disappointed then I thought it was chain drive. I'll definately take a look now, because I have a Honda bias. I'll prolly go for it, unless it has some kind of outward flaw or I just don't care for the looks.

 

[Bones]

I called myself lookin. But that's good to know, I was big time disappointed then I thought it was chain drive. I'll definately take a look now, because I have a Honda bias. I'll prolly go for it, unless it has some kind of outward flaw or I just don't care for the looks.

How's this look, Guy?

I'm guessing this is the "Sport" version with bags rather than the "ST" version...I could be wrong.

 

[BigTom]

I like everybody else am eagerly anticipating the Honda announcement! One thing I know is don't try to out guess mama Honda.

However the question about the BMW K series.

It reminds me of a couple of ex wives: Fast (oh jeeze were a couple fast), expensive to buy and maintain, and with a couple of inherent flaws. Doesn't mean I didn't love them and doesn't mean I wouldn't do it again (3rd ex excepted), just means that I need to go at it with my eyes wide open

Here's hoping that MaHonda will put us out of our misery soon. It is freaking September, after all....

BTW, baring a lottery win, I will keep buying low mile used ST's.

 

[BamaRider]

How's this look, Guy?

I'm guessing this is the "Sport" version with bags rather than the "ST" version...I could be wrong.

I like it, I'm just confused as heck.

If this is the ST version, it is definately gonna be more slanted to the sport side, and if its the "sport" version I ask- "So they're gonna make TWO bikes, same motor, with a fairing and bags??? I don't see it, but who knows with Honda.

I hope they stay in the game with touring sport bike. The bike is this pic does not look like a bike I'd wanna ride cross country on. But it is a nice looking ride.

 

[hojo in sc]

I like it, I'm just confused as heck.

If this is the ST version, it is definately gonna be more slanted to the sport side, and if its the "sport" version I ask- "So they're gonna make TWO bikes, same motor, with a fairing and bags??? I don't see it, but who knows with Honda.

I hope they stay in the game with touring sport bike. The bike is this pic does not look like a bike I'd wanna ride cross country on. But it is a nice looking ride.

As I said in a different thread, it is NOT an ST (oh, and I will NEVER own one).

Back to BMW and final drives, BMW is taking care of the problem. They have been replacing some of the ones that are OUT of warranty, they have made some mechanical changes to the design as well. How many years has the 1300 been around and it is still HOT to sit on.

If I am out on the open road driving along I can deal with the heat. And when I first bought the ST I was glad to take the heat compared to the OVER-HEATING I was getting on my Gold Wing (engine would over heat to the red line and I would have to stop to let it cool down...even before the GL1800 hit the sales floor I knew those Wings were a piss-poor design, apparently they have addressed that over heating problem, oh, and don't forget all those Wings had frame problems and had to be re-welded). Then came the opportunity for me to ride other bikes (for free, they were given to me to ride), I began to get an enjoyment out of riding slow speeds without frying my lower half.

Don't get me wrong, I still LOVE my ST, but if I have two bikes out in the garage and I need to do slow speed driving for 8 hours in 95 degree weather, which bike do you think I will jump on :nuts1:

 

[sherob]

From what I read in ON BMW Motorrad has never officially come out and said there is a problem with final drives in R and K bikes although the raw percentage of problems publically seen in events like the Iron Butt seem to corroborate the internet buzz.

Also FWIW, BMW of Daytona and BMW of Orlando are chock full of NOS 2007 650 Xmoto and Xcountries. The ads they run on the back of ON are giving them away. 2009 sales are down of many descretionary consumer items including motorcycles. I recently heard that BMW motorcycle sales in the US are off 50% this year. That has to be hard on small single line dealers of any brand of motorcycle. When you only sell 13,000 units annually losing 6500 of them has to be unsustainable. One thing I do like that BMW does is make parts available for bikes three and four decades old and dealers can get them overnight. I fear the recession may end that for my BMW. BMW AG already subsidizes the Motorrad, where are they going to cut costs to save the car division if it comes to that?

BMW 1qtr sales were only off ~18% compared to last year... compare that to ~30% for Honda The BMW only line is false... only 35% of it's dealers are BMW exclusive dealers

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm

 

[Charlie]

The BMW only line is false... only 35% of it's dealers are BMW exclusive dealers

BMW has been pushing hard over the past several years to get their dealers to commit to being exclusive dealers. "Pushing" is probably too polite of a word, based on the discussions I've heard about.

The interesting sideline ... while the two main BMW dealers I deal with in Texas are multi-vendor, both of the dealers I dealt with during the IBR were exclusive BMW shops. The one in Orange County had some VERY nicely restored older models (like a 1923 R32 that was on display from inside the parts counter).

BMW dealers might be far apart, but I've never had any problem getting my bike on a lift when needed while on the road, and have been able to get shops to open on days they're normally closed (the Orange County shop stayed open until midnight on a Sunday night waiting for me). Granted, the ST would have gone rally distance without needing service (at least during the event), but as someone who hasn't had time to do their own service in a long while ... they (BMW dealers) make dealer service easier than any other make I've ridden.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, only that they're different and different people have different wants/needs.

 

[dduelin]

BMW 1qtr sales were only off ~18% compared to last year... compare that to ~30% for Honda The BMW only line is false... only 35% of it's dealers are BMW exclusive dealers

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm

Just a few nits....

The comment I heard last week quoting sales off 50% YTD was from someone that worked at a dealer. And it was last week, not at the end of March.

I haven't seen Honda's YTD sales figures but all brands are suffering a bleak year. Production numbers aren't sales numbers and Honda's sales numbers weren't in your reference.

False? I didn't say all BMW dealers are single line just that has to be tough on those that are.

 

[sherob]

Yeah, RC... anytime I walk into a roundel dealer, it's a different experience than any other make... they treat you like you would want to be treated I'll have one in the future... need a K13s in white

My Kawa dealer does the service on my C14, single brand dealer... it's just to easy for me... and they treat me right, almost Beemerish :bow1:

 

[sherob]

Just a few nits....

The comment I heard last week quoting sales off 50% YTD was from someone that worked at a dealer. And it was last week, not at the end of March.

I haven't seen Honda's YTD sales figures but all brands are suffering a bleak year. Production numbers aren't sales numbers and Honda's sales numbers weren't in your reference.

False? I didn't say all BMW dealers are single line just that has to be tough on those that are.

Can't sell what you aren't producing, can you?

I sit corrected on your nits

 

[Bravo616]

I downloaded a BMW document that states the K1300GT now has tip over protection. This is a quote directly from them

"The inner surfaces of the fairing now fully painted and no longer in the
conventional grain touch convey an even higher standard of quality
and style. And at the same time the inner surfaces are further upgraded
by the instrument panel now fi nished in a matt, dark metallic colour.
Protectors integrated in the side sections reduce the risk of damage in a fall
or accident. Hence, the machine is now well protected should it fall over in an
accident or when not properly parked."

I failed to see this on the bike I rode. Can't figure out what they are talking about based on the pictures of the bike.

Anyone know anything about this ?

 

[Chris Parker]

I failed to see this on the bike I rode. Can't figure out what they are talking about based on the pictures of the bike.

Anyone know anything about this ?

It is not a cosmetic tip over bar at all... it is under the plastic to protect the frame and engine from hitting. Yeah, I know, stupid for the body work, but aesthetics rule in this case.

 

[dduelin]

Yeah, RC... anytime I walk into a roundel dealer, it's a different experience than any other make... they treat you like you would want to be treated I'll have one in the future... need a K13s in white

My Kawa dealer does the service on my C14, single brand dealer... it's just to easy for me... and they treat me right, almost Beemerish :bow1:

Well, you pay the roundel tax and you get more. More of what depends on the dealer. BMW MC of Orlando and BMW MC of Daytona (155 and 90 miles away respectively) have a bad reputation and Millers BMW of Tallahassee (165 miles) has a great reputation. Most of the BMW owners I know deal with Miller even though he was further away and much smaller in size. Dusty Miller, may you rest in peace. On the other hand Honda of Jacksonville treats me like Dusty did and Purcell's Honda & Kawasaki has a terrible reputation for sales and service. There are good and bad dealers of every brand.

 

[okckeith]

There are lots of BMW riders out there that love their bikes.. so to them, it is that good.. most of them would not want to ride an ST prone to heat and coolant leaks as well as the dreaded wobble.

Just throwing a different spin on things.

Always a god input Mellow. I love BMW bikes. I almost bought one before I bought my ST1300. THE lack of Dealers turned me off. And the Honda reliability sold me. I am happy with my bike. But I still want a BMW. I also want a Harley. Just for around town. My AAA is only good for 100 miles. Did I say that?

 

[Winged_STer]

Well I am starting to shop for a bike again. I dearly miss my 06 ST. I had it set up perfectly for me but it took a couple of extra thousands to get it there (ok, so I like farkles). A great, reliable bike. A sudden downturn in my economy forced sale.

So I am looking at C14's (haven't found one to test), K1200GT, K1300GT, and the ST is still in the hunt. I tested an FJR and although the bike was a great performer, it felt just a little too small for me (I am on the big side of large). I really like the BMW. Expensive? yes. I did see that BMW of Daytona has a couple of K1300GT demo's with the Preferred package going for $16,500 with like 2000 miles on them. So that is not terrible.

The cost of maintenance scares me a little but then so does the quality of the Honda dealers around me. The ones around here rarely see an ST and the quality of the mechanics are, well, mediocre at best. The BMW service guys seem like pros.

Ultimately it is a personal decision as to what fits you and your style. I haven't made up my mind yet but in the mean time I am trying to pile up :money1: