Advantages of the V4 engine configuration?

Cunados

Cunados

STexan 1300
Joined
Sep 5, 2011
Messages
92
Location
Little Rock
Bike
2013 Yamaha XTZ1200
There are numerous possible engine configurations Honda could have chosen for the ST1300. They chose a 1,261 cc longitudinal V4 fuel injected DOHC 4 valves per cylinder engine. Yamaha, Kawasaki, BMW and Triumph, to name a few, chose different paths.

Here's my question: What are the advantages and/or disadvantages to a longitudinal V4 when compared to the other manufacturers' ST engine configurations?

If I'm not mistaken, the ST1300 is the only current Honda model to use this engine configuration. I would suspect there is a reason. I wonder what it is?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
 
“The angle of the V eliminates secondary vibration, and the linear power curve is inherent in the engine,” explains Honda's Seidel. “Unlike an inline four, you don't have to spin it to get into the torque curve, so power is always there in a useable form.” I agree 100% with this. That being said, that sweet spot at 6 grand (full throttle) on the Kawi will suck the eyeballs out of the back of your head and make your ears bleed brain ooze.
 
Another advantage of the V4 in an ST1300 is you can relive all those episodes of The Jetsons every time you ride. ("Jane, stop this crazy thing....Jane, help, Jaaaaaaaane!)
 
The old man, Soichiro Honda, believed that the 90 degree V4 was the perfect motorcycle configuration for most of the reasons above. It was reasonably compact, was inherently smooth, possessed strong linear power, and Honda spent millions of yen refining it. Despite having conquered a global market and built a strong reputation on air cooled twins and inline transverse 4's the handwriting was on the wall for the air cooled engine by the mid 1970's. Emission and sound limits were on the horizon and the future was in liquid cooled engines. Even though Mr. Honda retired in 1977 the V4 was well on its way to production motorcycles and endurance and GP factory racing bikes. The 80's saw Honda release the V4 Sabre, the VF750 and 700, the V45 and V65, the Magna, the VFR750, and many other V4s from 250 to 1100cc. There was some initial cam oiling problems but Honda fixed that. The V4 was successful but the rest of the motorcycle world pretty much stayed with the inline transverse 4 engine and eventually Honda came back to it with the 1000 cc CBR in 1987 and only the VFR750 then the later 800 kept the V4 in production. When Honda of Germany in the late 80's conceived the idea of a big sporty tourer to compete with BMW this was met with favor in Japan and the joint effort with Honda Europe brought the ST1100 to market two or three years later. The Goldwing was already on a flat four/six trajectory and most of the development work was already done on a big V4 motor. Swung around to mount fore-and-aft driving the rear wheel with a shaft Honda berthed the ST1100 as a sport tourer with a strong flat power band and easy maintenance requirements. The 1300 was evolution, not revolution. The revolution was 20 years earlier with the V4 Sabre.
 
Not to offend, just my $.02 -

I bought my 2009 ST1300 brand new and I'm very happy with it. But, I will say that it is the most top heavy bike I've ever ridden - period. Get this thing off center with a slip of gravel under foot or pushing it around the garage and it is a handful. I've ridden 2 different Goldwings, a V-Max, my Nomad V-Twin 1500 for 6 years which was a slow, heavy pig of a bike with very slow steering and none match the ST's high center of gravity and the ever-presence of weight at rest. I just had my plastic off for a valve check and the amount of mechanicals above the axles is a lot, a whole lot.

The bike is also amazing in one unique regard - I have never ridden a bike that changed personalities so quickly after 4 mph. Get the bike rolling and the weight and it's placement absolutely defies gravity. It is the most confidence inspiring bike I've ever riden. Tight circles in the road, in my drive, quick flicks in tight turns - it becomes a precision tool. I don't know that the engine has much to do with that, but I have to give Honda credit - they "got it right" when it comes to handling, brakes (I love the linked ABS), and the flat delivery.

Regards, Gordon
 
Honda's MotoGP bikes also utilize a V4, as does the Ducati MotoGP bike and Aprilla's superbike (available in a street legal version.)
 
In my googling last night I came upon the Honda X-wing. A longitudinal v-6 1600 cc. The prototype was displayed '99/00. While the St1300 evolves from the ST1100 it shares alot of design cues from the X-wing.

From a business perspective I suspect the X-wing may have encroached a little too much on the golden goose aka GL1800 ;-)

Thank you for the thoughtful responses.
 
Good summary above on the V4 advantages (compactness, smoothness, torque) and acknowledging a couple associated disadvantages: potential for higher weight and higher CG, both contributing to the smoothness the rider feels.

A V-4 also is a bit more complex. Even with the same number of valves, cylinders, throttle bodies, etc, it has two separate overhead cam banks, rather than one. Therefore, cam drive trains, head seals, motor and head castings, number of independent machined parts, etc. are increased. Higher number of parts generally can lead to higher number of failure points and needs good engineering. Thankfully, Honda does a good job at that engineering part.
:)
 
And the Vee makes a handy place to catch any and all fasteners and miscellaneous parts that you may drop from above. There must be quite a collection in some of those engines. I figure if I kept the ST long enough I could build a whole new one with all those parts.

pete
 
The "longitudinal" V also provides a shorter wheelbase. Case in point is look at the difference between the ST and the current VFR. ST has a shorter wheelbase for basically the same size engine. The V motor was almost completely abandoned by Honda back in the late 80's because of the increased cost of manufacturing parts for two separate heads. At the time there was also a significant weight disadvantage to the V motors over the inline engine config. Fortunately time has prevailed, and the V config is making a comeback because of it's power delivery characteristics. Even Yamaha is trying to mimic it with the crossplane crank in the R1, which in their own documentation stated that the power delivery is more linear, much like a V configuration. Makes you ask, why fight it? Just build a V motor and enjoy life.
 
Ilbikes said:
I will say that it is the most top heavy bike I've ever ridden - period.
Click to expand...

I think you need to clarify what you mean by "top heavy." When I describe a bike as top heavy I mean that it has a high center of mass. By that measure, both of my previous bikes -- a 1982 GL500 Silverwing Interstate and a 1995 Triumph Speed Triple -- were more top heavy than my ST1300. In fact, the GL500 was so top heavy that it was as hard, if not slightly harder, to back into my garage than the ST is, despite being 200 pounds lighter.

The ST has a very low center of mass, especially for a fully dressed bike. You can tell that as soon as you try to push it around by hand. With the Silverwing, I could only push the bike around by hand while straddling it. Pushing it while walking beside it was asking for trouble, as the slightest tilt and I couldn't stop it from toppling over, even at only 525 pounds. But I can walk my ST around almost like a sport bike, just with more grunting and panting. If you dropped the Silverwing hard into a turn you had to deliberately stop it once you got it leaned over, otherwise its momentum would keep carrying you down to more lean than you wanted. The ST isn't like that at all because -- by the way I use the term -- it's not top heavy.
 
I found this old and very interesting thread, about the uniqueness of the wounderfull V4 engine, and I thought it might be interesting to bring it back to the surface, for the benefit of the new commers like me.

It was the advantages of the V4 that convinced me to buy an ST1100 last february. I was trying to understand a bit more the differences between the various types of motorcycle engines (monocylinders, parrallel twins, V-twins, V-four, etc) and.. I wanted to buy something reliable, long lasting, a smart design, a nice piece of engineering.

For me... half the fun about owning this bike, apart riding it, will be doing my own maintenance.
And understanding what makes this engine so Unique, makes me even more proud of owning one.

So, for those who might want to dig the subject from the start...

Here is a simple introduction video on youtube, explaining bore size, stroke lenght, Inline four vs Vee, Torque, Crank Shaft lenght, etc.
Why a V4 engine ?

And, I also found this site, where it summarizes some basic aspect of the V4 : Inertial Torque, firing sequence and so on. The author also wrote a book on the subject. At the end of the text, on each page, you have the links for the next chapters/sections.
What so great about the V4 Engine ?


Chris
 
The Yamaha Venture is another bike with a great V4, although turned in the other direction, which gives the appearance of a v-twin. With the fuel tank above the engine, fork mounted fairing and fairly heavy trunk, it feels way more top heavy than the ST1300. It loses a lot of that weight at speed, but its handling is never as effortless as the Honda.
 
Ilbikes said:
Not to offend, just my $.02 -

I bought my 2009 ST1300 brand new and I'm very happy with it. But, I will say that it is the most top heavy bike I've ever ridden - period. Get this thing off center with a slip of gravel under foot or pushing it around the garage and it is a handful. I've ridden 2 different Goldwings, a V-Max, my Nomad V-Twin 1500 for 6 years which was a slow, heavy pig of a bike with very slow steering and none match the ST's high center of gravity and the ever-presence of weight at rest. I just had my plastic off for a valve check and the amount of mechanicals above the axles is a lot, a whole lot.

The bike is also amazing in one unique regard - I have never ridden a bike that changed personalities so quickly after 4 mph. Get the bike rolling and the weight and it's placement absolutely defies gravity. It is the most confidence inspiring bike I've ever riden. Tight circles in the road, in my drive, quick flicks in tight turns - it becomes a precision tool. I don't know that the engine has much to do with that, but I have to give Honda credit - they "got it right" when it comes to handling, brakes (I love the linked ABS), and the flat delivery.

Regards, Gordon
Click to expand...

I’m with Ilbikes on this one. The bike before my ST1100 was an 83 GL650 Interstate and that bike was a nasty beast to move around the garage. A root canal while moving the ST is mire appealing to me than moving the GL around. That isn’t to say that I don’t respect the ST’s ability to bite me when I’m not expecting it!

And the personality change as the speed comes up is remarkable. All of a sudden, boom! It weighs less than our new puppy and is as much of a threat. LOVE IT!
 
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