M77 Replaces Moly 60- Apparently So

dwalby said:
I would agree with you that the new CH suffix in the part number would seem to indicate that something has changed, but as you say, its anybody's guess as to what's in the new formulation.
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The Honda document that I attached in post # 1 refers to this product as the New Moly 77 Paste. Even though the old Honda Moly 77 didn't meet the requirements for lubricating splines, it is possible that Honda switched suppliers, specified a different formulation and that this new Moly 77 does meet the spline requirements. It could be as simple as they wanted to reduce the part numbers in their inventory by switching to one product that can meet the criteria of the previous two - the big auto manufacturers do this all the time. The problem is that we do not know.
 
It could simply indicate that the container changed from a tube to a tub, or a different vendor, or it came from the Honda Car line of products instead of the Motorsports division etc.
If I were given a single choice due to all this confusion, I would probably recommend ordering the Loctite stuff, as we don't know if the stuff in the Honda tubes is the correct stuff anymore, or has outlived its shelf life.
Note: did anyone else notice on the red and white tubes that are marked for Honda and Acura vehicles, that it states "if oil separates during storage, squeeze tube alternately from front to back" to mix it up again?
Perhaps this is why I've seen 5 or 6 bikes with this stuff ball up and separate under use :rolleyes:
 
Soontobeone said:
According to Honda, that is correct. However, M77 does not meet Honda's own service requirement of more than 40% molybdenum disulfide paste, on the final gear case splines (page 16-12 of the Service Manual). Use at your own risk.

This is a better substitute, in my opinion, for Honda Moly 60: Loctite LB 8012 Paste Anti-Seize Lubricant. It contains 65% MoS2 (molybdenum disulfide).
https://www.rshughes.com/p/Loctite-...own-As-Loctite-Moly-Paste-51048/079340_51048/
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Gonna have to go with Soonetobeone...
Why was Moly 60 discontinued in the first place?
 
OMG another Moly Paste thread - Well I guess I'll have to throw my hat into the ring:

If you want the very best lubricant for splines, bearings etc. that is very very good at resisting shear and impact loads as well as being very resistant to washout or severe environments use this:

https://www.lowerfriction.com/product-page.php?categoryID=5

It is WS2 - Tungsten disulfide grease. It has Tungsten disulfide powder mixed in a very thick Polyalfa Olefin grease. WS2 is considerably better than MOS2 for extreme pressures and high temperatures and bonds to metal surfaces. This stuff really grips and once applied stays put. I have used it for years on splines, bearings seals etc. and can attest to its effectiveness. Put a dab of this on a fork seal and the WS2 will burnish into the rubber and the seal will last almost forever. Don't get it on your hands though. It is a real pain to remove from you hand or clothing. The grease is so waterproof it makes it almost impossible to remove with soap and water.

It is expensive but - if you want the very best - this is it.

Dan
 
Soontobeone said:
According to Honda, that is correct. However, M77 does not meet Honda's own service requirement of more than 40% molybdenum disulfide paste, on the final gear case splines (page 16-12 of the Service Manual). Use at your own risk.

This is a better substitute, in my opinion, for Honda Moly 60: Loctite LB 8012 Paste Anti-Seize Lubricant. It contains 65% MoS2 (molybdenum disulfide).
https://www.rshughes.com/p/Loctite-...own-As-Loctite-Moly-Paste-51048/079340_51048/
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Wondering if anybody has used any of the DuPont Krytox greases for the splines? Had good results with Krytox for other high pressure applications.
 
MidLife said:
Wondering if anybody has used any of the DuPont Krytox greases for the splines? Had good results with Krytox for other high pressure applications.
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The only problem I see is that Krytox has 5% MoS2. I couldn't find anything else. Is there a specific product you had in mind?
 

Attachments

  • H-58510-1, Typical Properties Of Krytox.pdf
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bdalameda said:
OMG another Moly Paste thread - Well I guess I'll have to throw my hat into the ring:

If you want the very best lubricant for splines, bearings etc. that is very very good at resisting shear and impact loads as well as being very resistant to washout or severe environments use this:

https://www.lowerfriction.com/product-page.php?categoryID=5

It is WS2 - Tungsten disulfide grease. It has Tungsten disulfide powder mixed in a very thick Polyalfa Olefin grease. WS2 is considerably better than MOS2 for extreme pressures and high temperatures and bonds to metal surfaces. This stuff really grips and once applied stays put. I have used it for years on splines, bearings seals etc. and can attest to its effectiveness. Put a dab of this on a fork seal and the WS2 will burnish into the rubber and the seal will last almost forever. Don't get it on your hands though. It is a real pain to remove from you hand or clothing. The grease is so waterproof it makes it almost impossible to remove with soap and water.

It is expensive but - if you want the very best - this is it.

Dan
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Hey Dan, Now we need to start a Tung thread. But this stuff will never replace MoS2 - it just doesn't roll off the tongue as musically. Moly....Tung. Sorry. Doesn't cut the mustard.

Oh, and its not expensive. A tube is 14 oz and that costs 36 bucks. Most moly's cost around 17 or more for up to 8 oz, so its comparable.
 
You can't use that. Your final drive will explode within 100 miles. Didn't you notice- it is a grease not a paste!:rolleyes:

bdalameda said:
OMG another Moly Paste thread - Well I guess I'll have to throw my hat into the ring:

If you want the very best lubricant for splines, bearings etc. that is very very good at resisting shear and impact loads as well as being very resistant to washout or severe environments use this:

https://www.lowerfriction.com/product-page.php?categoryID=5

It is WS2 - Tungsten disulfide grease.

Dan
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Now I don't care what you said, that there was funny :rofl1:
 
MidLife said:
The Calsci site recommends either the XHT-AC or the XHT-BDX grades.

But the GPL grades you highlighted would also make sense, like the 225 for instance.

Expensive, so wondering if anybody here has tried one of these already.
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From what I've been able to gather, I would not use Krytox. See attached.
 

Attachments

  • Krytox_XHT-BD_Series_H-91815-4.pdf
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Uncle Phil said:
I've been using it for at least 50,000 miles or so on each of the three ST1100s with no problems as of yet. It's been so long since I've seen a tube of the original M60 I can't remember when I made the switch but it's been years.
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Just been catching up with this epilogue, did everyone just ignore UP, shame on you, 150,000 miles without issue. That's a lot of 0's. I also don't know why anyone is referring to M77 as grease, it's paste, it says so on the tube, at least it does on mine.
Well done UP at least you decided to enter relevant information, I.E. you've used it and it worked.
All those with tubes of M60, I'm pleased for you but it doesn't really help unless your'e going to sell me a tube and if I'm not mistaken you're not. I think it was OBF who wrote that GW failures were down to lack of lube not wrong lube and I sort of see that. Also worth considering is that some of you folk get enormous tyre mileage and hence the rear wheel can be on a long time, were lucky to get a season out of a set, probably 5000 miles.
Upt'North.
 
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Upt' North said:
I also don't know why anyone is referring to M77 as grease, it's paste, it says so on the tube, at least it does on mine.
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It does say paste on the old Honda M-77 tube- see below pictures.

Old Honda M-77 Paste_1.JPG Old Honda M-77 Paste_2.JPG

What Honda has referred to as the new M-77 refers to it as a grease on the tube- see pictures below.

New Honda M-77 Paste_1.jpg New Honda M-77 Grease_2.jpg

This is a tube that I had to have my local Honda dealer order as they had no stock. I received it just last week. It came from Honda so I am assuming that it is the latest iteration of Honda M-77 grease.
 
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Uncle Phil said:
I've been using it for at least 50,000 miles or so on each of the three ST1100s with no problems as of yet. It's been so long since I've seen a tube of the original M60 I can't remember when I made the switch but it's been years.
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Just to clarify when you say "it" are you saying that you have been using Honda M-77 for the last 50, 000 miles?
Would you know if it is what I believe is now the old Honda M-77 paste or the new Honda M-77 grease? See above post for pictures.
 
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Andrew Shadow said:
Just to clarify when you say "it" are you saying that you have been using Honda M-77 for the last 50, 000 miles?
Would you know if it is what I believe is now the old Honda M-77 paste or the new Honda M-77 grease? See here for pictures.
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Nope, the Loctite version. Sorry for the lack of clarification (went back and fixed 'it'). :D
 
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Andrew Shadow said:
Would you know if it is what I believe is now the old Honda M-77 paste or the new Honda M-77 grease? See here for pictures.
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since you have the tube in your possession, have you squeezed any out to see if its more like a grease, or more like a paste?

The bulletin you posted very early on called it both paste and grease, so its still not clear which it is. Also, the Dow molykote M-77 data sheet generically calls that moly grease, but then also specifies that its in paste form. I don't work in the business to understand how loosely or accurately the terminology gets applied, but from those two documents it would appear that the 'grease' description on the tube doesn't necessarily mean its not paste.

edit: given the ambiguous tech support from Honda it would seem that going to a known paste with a known moly content, like UP has done is the least risky option. We're probably going to debate what's in the various Honda M-77 packages for months with no real conclusion.
 
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No I haven't cut the tip off of the tube yet because I always manage to get it on myself somehow. I am planning to do some maintenance on my bike soon so I will be having a closer look at it then.
 
dwalby said:
since you have the tube in your possession, have you squeezed any out to see if its more like a grease, or more like a paste?
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As talked about in other posts:

-- "Grease" indicates that the product is a semi solid lubricant (as opposed to a fluid).

-- "Paste" refers to the consistency of the grease product your are using. Most greases described as "paste" fall under a NLGI consistency grade of 1 or 2.

The two terms are not mutually exclusive. One describes what the product is (a grease/lubricant) and the other the consistency of the product (paste).

So M77 is a grease with a paste-like consistency

If you were trying to pull somebody's leg here, I obviously fell into the trap!
 
This is the BEST description I've read yet:1st:
It almost seems that folks who want to use it, or trust the parts counter guy, are trying to twist the words around and make more out of them than there is, hoping that their interpretation makes it ok to use.
For those folks who are using ANY of the M77 Grease/Paste, I would strongly urge them to open things up after a few hundred miles and inspect things, to make sure they are not damaging their driveshaft assembly :rolleyes:
Several of the ones that I've seen lately, had severe wear on them "only since the last tire change, when they used the new M77 grease".
Its your equipment, how you take care of it depends on you.:shrug1:


:ds1: Luke, I am the father of Honda Moly 60 :rofl1:
 
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