Facet-Purolator Posi-Flo Fuel Pump 60304

jrp

jrp

Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
518
Age
61
Location
Colorado
Bike
ST1100AW
Picked up a Facet pump (model 60304) a while ago to carry as a backup when riding in case my '98 ST1100 fuel pump quits on me. I am going to fit it as described in this AOW article:

Electric Fuel Pump Option ( ST1100 ) *

Electric Fuel Pump Option ( ST1100 ) *
www.st-riders.net

After fitting and testing it out, my original plan was to remove it and carry it in a saddlebag. If the fuel pump quits while riding, I would fit the facet, hook up the wiring and (hopefully) continue on.

But I am thinking now to just install it permanently and have a selector switch that would allow me to run either pump. The description for the Facet pump at Pegasus Auto Racing says that you can pull fuel through the pump when it is turned off. Anyone see a problem with this?

Facet Posi-Flo 12v Fuel Pump Kit, 1/8 NPT, 1.0-2.0 psi | Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies

This Facet Posi-Flow, Low Pressure Fuel Pump Kit is for low fuel requirements of carbureted engines up to about 100 horsepower. Kit contains pump, mounting hardware, filter and adapter to accept 5/16" fuel hose.
www.pegasusautoracing.com www.pegasusautoracing.com
 
A second fuel pump in the tank will take up room otherwise occupied by gas. This decreases your range requiring more fuel stops (but gives you an excuse for bathroom breaks). If you are in the habit of running the gas down as low as you can before refueling, then with two fuel pumps to pump non existent gas, you will have to walk an extra 1 or 200 yards to the gas station. :rofl1:

Sounds like a good idea to me.
 
SMSW said:
A second fuel pump in the tank will take up room otherwise occupied by gas. This decreases your range requiring more fuel stops (but gives you an excuse for bathroom breaks). If you are in the habit of running the gas down as low as you can before refueling, then with two fuel pumps to pump non existent gas, you will have to walk an extra 1 or 200 yards to the gas station. :rofl1:

Sounds like a good idea to me.
Click to expand...
It's an external pump. Guess I should have been explicit about that.
 
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jrp said:
It's an external pump. Guess I should have been explicit about that.
Click to expand...
Makes my joke moot then. This whole setup is an even better idea. For the $80 bucks cost it might be worth carrying as a spare on many more high mileage bikes. If I understand your post, in the event of a fuel pump failure, with this external pump, you simply switch the wires over from old to new and will now suck the gas up out of the tank through the old pump. You are now on your way after a few minutes of fiddling.

Questions, since I am not familiar with the 1100. Will this pump generate enough suction to pull the fuel out of the lower gas tank on a 1300? Is the fuel pressure high enough for a fuel injection system? I realize it does not solve the problem of a clogged filter that prevents the gas from getting to the OEM fuel pump, so it might not work as expected if the fuel filter is the problem. Any ideas?
 
SMSW said:
Is the fuel pressure high enough for a fuel injection system? I realize it does not solve the problem of a clogged filter that prevents the gas from getting to the OEM fuel pump, so it might not work as expected if the fuel filter is the problem. Any ideas?
Click to expand...

No, the 1100 only needs a few pounds of pressure (not sure on the actual number) to get the fuel to the float bowls, while the 1300 requires 50 lbs (at idle) to pressurize the fuel injection system.
 
SMSW said:
Makes my joke moot then. This whole setup is an even better idea. For the $80 bucks cost it might be worth carrying as a spare on many more high mileage bikes. If I understand your post, in the event of a fuel pump failure, with this external pump, you simply switch the wires over from old to new and will now suck the gas up out of the tank through the old pump. You are now on your way after a few minutes of fiddling.

Questions, since I am not familiar with the 1100. Will this pump generate enough suction to pull the fuel out of the lower gas tank on a 1300? Is the fuel pressure high enough for a fuel injection system? I realize it does not solve the problem of a clogged filter that prevents the gas from getting to the OEM fuel pump, so it might not work as expected if the fuel filter is the problem. Any ideas?
Click to expand...
I plan to install a switch to power the Facet, so there wouldn't even be any fiddling with wires needed.

The pump is only rated a 1-2.5 PSI, so it wouldn't work for the fuel injected system on the 1300 (as Bmacleod said).
 
Upt' North said:
To answer your question JRP, no I don't.
Please keep us posted with the mod and all it entails.
Upt'North.
Click to expand...
I will. The plan is to measure flow before doing anything, then measure it with just the Facet pump in place and running, and finally measure it with only the in-tank pump running and pumping fuel through the Facet pump.
 
I used to carry an external pump (IIRC it was also a Facet) similar to that one and had to install it once while on the road.
The problem was that once I put it under the bodywork, the heat killed it and it quit working also.
Just be aware that air flow can be an issue with external pumps - at least in my case.

1-2 PSI seems to be right as that seems to work with the Quantum stock replacement (6 PSI output) and adjustable regulator I just bought.
 
Uncle Phil said:
I used to carry an external pump (IIRC it was also a Facet) similar to that one and had to install it once while on the road.
The problem was that once I put it under the bodywork, the heat killed it and it quit working also.
Just be aware that air flow can be an issue with external pumps - at least in my case.

1-2 PSI seems to be right as that seems to work with the Quantum stock replacement (6 PSI output) and adjustable regulator I just bought.
Click to expand...
I'll contact Facet-Purolator to see what the heat rating is on the pump that I have. Thanks for the feedback.

EDIT: I also have the extra fresh air duct installed so maybe that will help with the heat. I'll also try to contact the guy who wrote the AOW article who is using the same Facet pump after his in-tank pump failed. Did you have the cube-style version or the black plastic version?
 
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At cruise on an ST1100, what's it burn 1.5 gallons per hour? If be more concerned with the pump overheating from deadheading. Description says typical flow 10gph at 1psi. Installing it in a cooler location is easy. I'm reasonably sure the fuel is supposed to keep it cool. If there isn't enough fuel flow, it's gonna heat up....

RT
 
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rwthomas1 said:
At cruise on an ST1100, what's it burn 1.5 gallons per hour? If be more concerned with the pump overheating from deadheading. Description says typical flow 10gph at 1psi. Installing it in a cooler location is easy. I'm reasonably sure the fuel is supposed to keep it cool. If there isn't enough fuel flow, it's gonna heat up....

RT
Click to expand...
Good thinking RT. More for me to take into account. Thanks for your comments.

Thanks,
Jeff
 
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Another idea...use the Facet as primary and the in-tank as backup. Comments?
 
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Uncle Phil said:
I used to carry an external pump (IIRC it was also a Facet) similar to that one and had to install it once while on the road.
The problem was that once I put it under the bodywork, the heat killed it and it quit working also.
Just be aware that air flow can be an issue with external pumps - at least in my case.

1-2 PSI seems to be right as that seems to work with the Quantum stock replacement (6 PSI output) and adjustable regulator I just bought.
Click to expand...
If you install the pump in the area where the vac shut valve was, there is a fresh air hose in place that would cool the pump somewhat.
 
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When I did the original install I took the air duct and pointed it at the pump.

11Fuel.jpg

After removing the valve, the pump fits in it's place under the upper cover.

17Fuel.jpg


I just updated the original installation thread with an update. In short, the electric system worked great for 18k+ miles. After that, I started running rich and passing raw fuel through the motor. I have not torn down the carbs for an inspection, but my suspicion is that crud from a 10 yr storage dislodged and a good cleaning will fix the problem. However, without having actually confirmed that, I can't say the pump isn't the cause either.

I really don't think it is the electric pump though. I should have disassembled the carbs and cleaned them when I replaced the rest of the fuel system. Another option is that it is a 20 year old bike and it could have failed during the normal cycles of wear and tear. Eventually.... all carbs will need rebuilding. Just the nature of the beast.
 
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