What current production motorcycle is closest to the ST1300?

[Upt' North]

I think it's all covered isn't it?
I've test ridden the new RT1200 WC and for me it still feels like a two wheeled John Deere. If you like them you like them but they are not ST's. After that bought a ST11 as a stop gap, I'm now hoping that stop gap is a very long one. The new rumoured RT1250 VVT will no doubt be a good update for the RT range but I still don't think it will be an ST. I would also agree that the FJR is probably the nearest modern equivalent and that your replacement should reflect what you want a bike to do. Why buy a large tourer if you're not using it for that purpose, if you want agile, sportier, more fun (?) the choice is endless.
You only have to look at the GW to see that manufacturers are changing bikes for our new lifesylife (whatever that is), which only works of course if your lifestyle has changed as well.
Honda's replacement for the ST has already arrived, it's just a lot of folk don't buy into it. Honda didn't make the VFR1200, VFR1200X, Africa Twin, Crosstourer etc. because they had time on their hands, this is what marketing says we all want, we might not, but Honamkawasuz are not going to build bikes for limited markets.
The truth is we all sort of shot ourselves in the foot by embracing the adventure market (does anyone else hate that term), if you ride through Europe you see more of these than any bike genre.
Enjoy your Pan, if you love it and can't envisage life without one, go buy a new/nearly new whilst you can, that'll be the next ten years covered and there'll be a new GW by then!
Upt'North.

 

[catcher]

My experience with my 2016 VFR1200X has been very satisfying. Just yesterday, I made some suspension adjustments as per recommendations in the VFR forum, and gave the bike, and myself, a workout on a nearby twisty road. Like I said, very satisfying!
The new Goldwing is a lot of money. The VFR is a lot less. Try to find a demo ride, preferably a DCT version. You just might experience a new bliss!
You'll continue to meet the nicest people on a Honda ...

 

[caldercay]

Right now, the VFR1200

That's been a consideration for me, though as an additional bike in the barn (or Africa Twin).

However the one thing that irks me about the bike, looks-wise, is that ugly beak ... I had an nc700 with that same beak - i seriously considered ways to modify it "out".

 

[paulcb]

That's been a consideration for me, though as an additional bike in the barn (or Africa Twin).

However the one thing that irks me about the bike, looks-wise, is that ugly beak ... I had an nc700 with that same beak - i seriously considered ways to modify it "out".

For me the 1200X will do all the off-road I want, no need for the AT. If I really want off-road, I have a WR450F. Regarding the beak, you can't see it when you're riding.

 

[KCJones]

For me after the 2012 st1300 the next bike was a low mileage st1100. Until something better comes out I will keep looking for these fantastically built garage queens. So much more satisfying to ride with added smug feeling from a depreciation/ service cost than a 2018 bmw rt I ride as a uk blood bike volunteer

It's all about personal choice and situation. I happen to work on bikes professionally and have a full shop with all the tools and everything else that I need, not to mention experience wrenching. So I've never even considered buying a brand new bike. On the other hand, my father has never bought anything but new his entire life. And he usually trades them in within a year or two and takes a bath. But he's strictly a Harley guy and for him it's all about one-upping the other guys in his Club. That's what he likes and what he wants.

In this situation it may be worth looking for a "new" ST still sitting at the dealer. I know they have at least one still sitting over at my local Honda dealer. I happened to be in my local Yamaha dealer a few weeks ago, and they still had some 2015 bikes sitting as "new" on the floor... Plus if you do find one still sitting around, you could probably get a fantastic price on it.

 

[KCJones]

We can speculate all day long about -why- the market has shifted away from bikes like the St. But it seems like it has. I think it's notable that my local dealer has an S T that's been sitting there for over a year, while every new Wing in their entire initial allocation was sold before it even arrived. And they have a waiting list for others.THAT is why mama Honda ain't making new ones. If they sold like hotcakes, there'd be a new version guaranteed.

 

[ReSTored]

............. But it is now about 11-years old and I worry it will croak and I will be left without a bike..............

You don't mention how many miles you have on your bike, but the likelihood of the ST "croaking" is, I think, just about nil. There are lots of early 1100's with 2 or 3 hundred thousand miles on the road humming away and later 1300's too.

If you really want a new bike in the stable I think the FJR is probably the closest match in terms of style, design, performance, initial and ongoing maintenance cost.

 

[dduelin]

Care to elaborate why you are of this opinion?

They have, in no particular order)
- similar riding position
- similar range
- fuel consumption within 10% of each other
- similar capability to carry 2 up
- similar luggage carrying capability
- shaft drive
- weather/wind protection
- ability to cruise at virtually any speed (up to extra legal speeds)
- can run with (and hide from many) sport bikes in the twisties
- performance near enough to make no difference (especially if you consider the WC BMW)

Differences:

- initial cost (although tough to compare since one is no longer available as new)
- arguably different maintenance costs
- engine configuration
- weight
- electronic doo dads

Within the usual suspects in class I can't think of two that are as different as the ST to the air/oil cooled RT/RS/ST because the engine/transmission/drive trains are so far apart in execution and character. That is what I meant and I've owned both. Both are excellent examples of sport tourers or light tourers depending on which side of the Atlantic you are on.

I've owned both and that is my opinion. YMMV

 

[KCJones]

Within the usual suspects in class I can't think of two that are as different as the ST to the air/oil cooled RT/RS/ST because the engine/transmission/drive trains are so far apart in execution and character. That is what I meant and I've owned both. Both are excellent examples of sport tourers or light tourers depending on which side of the Atlantic you are on.

I've owned both and that is my opinion. YMMV

Where bikes are concerned one's opinion is in one's *****... literally. What I like, how a bike feels to me, the importance of drive train vs handling, etc is individual to me. Having said that, the two feel very similar to me... But I ride a huge variety of bikes, so ANY two legit sport-touring bikes may just feel "close" to me by comparison. It's more like YM-WILL-V. .

 

[Khav]

2nd for the BMW R1200 series...//...and they do tend to sound like a tractor, a bit,...

Blasphemer! Lol. I really like the sound of those opposing twins...one of a number of bikes including the ST that have a very distinctive sound. I was checking air pressure one day at the local convenience store and heard another 13 rolling in...knew it instantly.

 

[SupraSabre]

There is no replacement for the ST1300, as far as I'm concerned

I have enough ST1300s to last me the rest of my riding career, so I won't worry about what to replace it (them) with!

 

[BrianHudson]

Blasphemer! Lol. I really like the sound of those opposing twins...one of a number of bikes including the ST that have a very distinctive sound. I was checking air pressure one day at the local convenience store and heard another 13 rolling in...knew it instantly.

I love the sound of the ST1300 with its turbine whining from the straight cut gears that drive the balance shafts and the unobtrusive thrumming of a V4 exhaust burble


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[MajorTom]

Within the usual suspects in class I can't think of two that are as different as the ST to the air/oil cooled RT/RS/ST because the engine/transmission/drive trains are so far apart in execution and character. That is what I meant and I've owned both. Both are excellent examples of sport tourers or light tourers depending on which side of the Atlantic you are on.

I've owned both and that is my opinion. YMMV

Sounds like Dave would agree with me that the defining character of a motorcycle is the engine. Think Harley-Davidson, Gold Wing, UJM. Honda's V4 is the thing that thrills me every time I get my ST1300 out on the highway. So the closest thing to an ST1300 would be another V4 Honda, like the VFR1200. But of course they're not making those anymore either.

 

[dduelin]

I love the sound of the ST1300 with its turbine whining from the straight cut gears that drive the balance shafts and the unobtrusive thrumming of a V4 exhaust burble


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The balancer gear set are helical cut but I know what you meant. it still sounds cool.

 

[paulcb]

Sounds like Dave would agree with me that the defining character of a motorcycle is the engine. Think Harley-Davidson, Gold Wing, UJM. Honda's V4 is the thing that thrills me every time I get my ST1300 out on the highway. So the closest thing to an ST1300 would be another V4 Honda, like the VFR1200. But of course they're not making those anymore either.

The VFR1200X is a V4 and is still sold by Honda. Pretty much the same powertrain as the VFR1200.

 

[BrianHudson]

The balancer gear set are helical cut but I know what you meant. it still sounds cool.

I believe the gears are straight cut on ST1300


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[KCJones]

The VFR1200X is a V4 and is still sold by Honda. Pretty much the same powertrain as the VFR1200.

VFR is a transverse v4, like the magna. I find the power delivery very different vs longitudinal. I also find the transverse v4's much harder to work on, but that may or not be an issue for you.

 

[Daboo]

It would be hard to beat a ST1300 (ST1100 too). I'd think about the Kawasaki C14. Also the FJR. I'm more than a little against the R1200's. I've seen a lot of final drive failures reported on the BMW MOA forum. The answer when someone complains about the failures is that's just part of the BMW experience. If you can't afford the repair costs, don't own a BMW. That's BS to me.

This post is in reply to me saying that there are lots of former BMW owners who have been burned by BMW reliability, or lack thereof...and how they are really bitter. This guy doesn't drink the Kool-Aid...he makes it.

Lots of psychology in this ...

It's difficult for many it appears, to comprehend that in motorcycles BMW occupies the same territory that Mercedes, BMW, and Porsche occupy in cars ... that is the cutting edge. One supposes that if you produce the same engine for 50 years it could in fact become pretty reliable ... but it won't be cutting edge. (It's apparently news to many Americans that the small block Chevy is a boat anchor.)

Then, I suggest there is a lot of guilt involved in motorcycle ownership ... which is manifested in obsessively trying to think of it as inexpensive. These things are toys and BMW along with Ducati are at the expensive end. It's simply ludicrous and a non sequitur to discuss high end motorcycles and economy (or reliability) in the same sentence. Ferrari and Porsche owners don't complain much about reliability and certainly not about the cost of a tire pressure sensor. This being said, I've owned BMWs exclusively since 1978 and have never been stranded or faced an expense any more major than the leaded/unleaded valve job. User error does exist.

It's good to also know about BMW and the fact it's no different than any other German automotive manufacturer ... they DO NOT design their vehicles for do-it-yourself maintenance.

In a country obsessed with engineering excellence and the world leader in things automotive, the culture extends to honoring the training and abilities of the maintenance technician as well. This in contrast to the USA, where it appears anyone that owns a motorcycle is nearly required by the culture to do DIY and in fact by virtue of motorcycle ownership becomes a mechanical genius able to comment freely on engineering design and the (fantasized) poor skills of trained techs. Hilarious post on a Facebook forum yesterday where a guy was miffed that a component required a 7mm wrench, something "not found in the usual tool set." Maybe not a Sears or Home Depot set, but frankly that's third world and of no relationship to professional technicians. Frankly if you own a motorcycle and can't afford dealership service (or maybe you're afraid to ask the cost) you've simply made a poor economic decision in purchasing that bike. The perhaps scariest thing is the guys that compromise their safety fitting hockey puck tires seeking ultimate mileage ... and it's scary unscrupulous manufacturers offer some. Motorcycling is expensive period, and tires are a big factor. Cost of doing business get used to it.

So, those "outside of BMW circles" couldn't afford one, nothing more. (emphasis mine)

The Honda ST/NT bikes have a shaft drive, and from what I know of with the NT700V, they don't fail. So the vaunted BMW engineers could design a better final drive...they just don't. And the customer is the one who pays for it in the end. And if you're like the owner above...it's part of the wonderful experience of owning a BMW.

I read last summer of an owner of a R1200GS who's final drive failed without warning in some fairly unpopulated portion of Alaska. No one had the part. Even if they'd had the part, no one had the tools to do the repair. And he only had a couple weeks of vacation, so he was pulling his hair out trying to figure out if he could fix it somehow, store it, sell it, ...whatever.

This is an interesting comment in the latest ON (Owners News) magazine.

...Lastly, I found it fascinating to read, also in the May ON, Matt Parkhouse's article. He mentions touring the museum at Bob's BMW in Maryland. Now I've spent a healthy amount of cash at Bob's over the years. And I know he is selling brand new BMW's as hard as he can. But he says in the article that he himself, (Bob) feels that the new BMWs with all their plastic and electronic controls will "start to break down around the ten year mark whether they are ridden extensively or stored in a climate controlled museum." This the owner of one of the largest BMW dealerships in the country, with a massive parts inventory and I assume a huge repair staff, stating that the new BMW motorcycles won't hold up. You couldn't state any better reason, or from a more expert source as to why people aren't buying new BMWs. (emphasis mine)

Chris

 

[KCJones]

It would be hard to beat a ST1300 (ST1100 too). I'd think about the Kawasaki C14. Also the FJR. I'm more than a little against the R1200's. I've seen a lot of final drive failures reported on the BMW MOA forum. The answer when someone complains about the failures is that's just part of the BMW experience. If you can't afford the repair costs, don't own a BMW. That's BS to me.

This post is in reply to me saying that there are lots of former BMW owners who have been burned by BMW reliability, or lack thereof...and how they are really bitter. This guy doesn't drink the Kool-Aid...he makes it.


The Honda ST/NT bikes have a shaft drive, and from what I know of with the NT700V, they don't fail. So the vaunted BMW engineers could design a better final drive...they just don't. And the customer is the one who pays for it in the end. And if you're like the owner above...it's part of the wonderful experience of owning a BMW.

I read last summer of an owner of a R1200GS who's final drive failed without warning in some fairly unpopulated portion of Alaska. No one had the part. Even if they'd had the part, no one had the tools to do the repair. And he only had a couple weeks of vacation, so he was pulling his hair out trying to figure out if he could fix it somehow, store it, sell it, ...whatever.

This is an interesting comment in the latest ON (Owners News) magazine.



Chris

I sell a lot of R__00 final drives to BM owners, I can tell you that. You should also plan on replacing your clutch slave cylinder with unfortunate regularity, and that is a BEAST of a job to do. We quote 8 hours labor for that job... Our nice way of saying we'd just rather not. I could go on, but won't.

Bottom line, my brother, father, and I have all owned R__00 bikes, and none of us will ever own another BMW 'motorrad'...

PS, like you I fault BMW for it. Both of the problems I mentioned have gone on for many many years without correction. Engineering a good slave cylinder or a good final drive is not impossible. They just choose not to.

 

[dduelin]

I believe the gears are straight cut on ST1300


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You are correct and I stand corrected.