Where did the recommendation for Honda M-77 Assembly Paste start?

[dwalby]

Jim, To say this topic has been over-analyzed already would be an understatement, but let's go on for another 16 pages on O-ring compatibility just to make sure we have all our bases covered.

 

[Jim Van]

Jim, To say this topic has been over-analyzed already would be an understatement, but let's go on for another 16 pages on O-ring compatibility just to make sure we have all our bases covered.

Go for it !!! The % moly content is a moot point and the splines will be toast if the o-rings don't hold up and do their job !!

 

[SMSW]

Jim, To say this topic has been over-analyzed already would be an understatement, but let's go on for another 16 pages on O-ring compatibility just to make sure we have all our bases covered.

What really surprises me is that so many of us (present scribe included) keep revisiting this thread simply to whack the dead horse another time. Or are we taking another swing at that same old nail?

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I don't remember reading where anyone actually asked Honda (as opposed to asking a Honda dealer) about the change from Moly 60 to Moly 77. If someone did I missed it. I sent in a request to Honda Canada through their website out of curiosity to see what they would respond.


The following was my question;

Honda ST1300 factory service manual calls for Honda part number 08734-0001 (Moly 60 paste) to lubricate the final drive splines. Honda dealers are advising customers that this product has been discontinued. They claim that it has been replaced by Honda part number 08798-9010CH (Moly 77 grease).

Is Honda part number 08734-0001 (Moly 60 paste) still available from Honda Canada?

If Honda part number 08734-0001 (Moly 60 paste) has been discontinued, is Honda part number 08798-9010CH (Moly 77 grease) the correct replacement product?

These two products do not have the same technical specifications to support this claim. If Honda part number 08798-9010CH (Moly 77 grease) is the correct replacement product can you send me the technical information supporting this change- e.g. a Honda technical service bulletin that states this is the correct replacement product.

Thank you;

Andrew


The below was the response that I received from Honda Canada;

Dear Andrew,

We thank you for your email to Honda Canada regarding the Honda products, especially the products related to your Honda ST1300 Motorcycle and can assure you of our interest.

It is important to note that the Moly 77 is the right replacement for the Moly 60 but, unfortunately, Honda Canada doesn't have more technical information available to disclose.

If you have any additional inquiries, please feel free to contact me directly at XXXXXXXX, or 1-888-XXX-XXXX, extension XXXX, Monday-Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.

Yours very truly,

HONDA CANADA Inc.

XXXXXX XXXXXX
Customer Relations Specialist

Hours of Operation: Monday - Friday 8:00am to 7:30pm EST

I removed the person's name and contact information. I will get back to him next week to see if he can provide a little more substance to support the claim that this is now the correct product for final drive spline lubrication.

Just doing my part. Since this thread seemed to have stalled I felt that I should help to keep this heated debate raging.

 

[dwalby]

Moly 77 is the right replacement for the Moly 60 but, unfortunately, Honda Canada doesn’t have more technical information available to disclose.

I will get back to him next week to see if he can provide a little more substance to support the claim that this is now the correct product for final drive spline lubrication.

what part of they don't have the info to provide wasn't clear in his message?

 

[DavidR8]

Fair question; is the point to try to elicit info which doesn't exist and then interpret that as not being told the truth?

(I'm not trying to be controversial here, just trying to figure out what happens if they say nothing because they really don't have anything to say)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jfheath]

I don't remember reading where anyone actually asked Honda (as opposed to asking a Honda dealer) about the change from Moly 60 to Moly 77. If someone did I missed it. I sent in a request to Honda Canada through their website out of curiosity to see what they would respond.

I contacted Honda Uk early on in the posts 30-40ish. They gave an answer about what they recommend to Uk service centres. It wasnt Moly77, but I wasn't entirely convinced by the response.

It seems that many applications of Moly60 were for brake backs, and from what I can tell, Moly 77 seems to be up to that job.

So unless your question really emphasises that the splines require an extreme load lubricant (amongst other qualities), then the answer you get may be an answer to a different question. Is it a substitute for M60 ? Well, yes it is if you are just servicing car brakes.

I know you mentioned the splines in your question to Honda. I wonder if they appreciated the significance of that - if their experience of M60 use was just for brakes, then maybe they do not fully understand what is being asked.

I note that Dow Corning M77 paste is NOT designed for extreme pressure applications. I only assume that Honda M77 is a Dow Corning product as many suppliers on line refer to the Honda M77 as 'Molykote' M77 - Molykote appears to be a registered trade mark of Dow Corning.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

what part of they don't have the info to provide wasn't clear in his message?

He didn't say that they don't have the info to provide. He said they didn't have more information to disclose. Not being willing to disclose information does not mean that it is not in their possession. If they don't want to disclose any additional information than they already have that is fine with me but that doesn't necessarily preclude them from having the ability to answer some questions for me- which he invited me to do I will note.

So unless your question really emphasises that the splines require an extreme load lubricant (amongst other qualities), then the answer you get may be an answer to a different question. Is it a substitute for M60 ? Well, yes it is if you are just servicing car brakes.

I know you mentioned the splines in your question to Honda. I wonder if they appreciated the significance of that - if their experience of M60 use was just for brakes, then maybe they do not fully understand what is being asked.

And the above quote from Mr. Heath is why I asked a follow-up question of Honda. Considering that it took me all of 30 seconds to do so even if he responds back saying that he cannot help me any further I don't see that I have lost a great investment of time or effort. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

If I get a response from Honda that adds any useful information to this discussion I will post it for the benefit of those who choose to avail themselves of it. If not I have lost nothing.

 

[jfheath]

And the above quote from Mr. Heath is why I asked a follow-up question of Honda.

And thanks for continuing to try Andrew, it is really appreciated. I gave up after the last set of replies, as no answer ever states categorically that their suggestion is definitely the stuff to use. It strikes me as odd that Honda should choose to allow the supplies of their recommended spline lubricant to dry up, (so to speak), and not provide any information about it - at least that anyone is prepared to disclose. I thought it significant that the UK Honda say that have started to use something different to do the job. It is also revealing that Honda Canada are wary of putting something down in writing, but are prepared to talk over the phone.

Me - I still have some Moly 60 left in the tube, but I am continuing to look for products that would do the same job, and I have suggestions from Dow Corning to replace their G-n paste which was recommended by Honda

 

[Popgun]

I’m not a lubricant expert so don’t flame me too much, but, why wouldn’t an outboard spline lubricant (for the drive shaft) work?

 

[Al st1100]

I’m not a lubricant expert so don’t flame me too much, but, why wouldn’t an outboard spline lubricant (for the drive shaft) work?

it might but the stuff we use at work (what I use)[FONT=&quot] Withstands up to 500,000 pounds per square inch of pressure, it has molly . [/FONT][FONT=Open Sans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]POLYTRON EP-2, that was recommend earlier does not give pressure specs and the site states its " [/FONT][FONT=&quot]operation in rolling contact bearings."[/FONT][FONT=Open Sans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] Out board spline lubricants are not designed for high pressure use. Remember the prop is torqued down, it resists corrosion and is waterproof. I found the stuff I use at amazon, the specs are there [/FONT]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KAO2NK6/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00KAO2NK6&pd_rd_wg=aPCpT&pd_rd_r=1RCGFRTRQQ54NQYPA2B0&pd_rd_w=bbMOI#customerReviews

 

[BakerBoy]

Al, no paste hold up to 500ksi pressure--that is impossible in a film/lubrication application. The metal under it isn't even capable of that. Such a 'film pressure' number is commonly claimed, but is marketing hype and is not the paste's ability in splines. The number comes from a very ill-fitted Falex test (which attempts to fail a hydrodynamic application, which represents neither a stationary paste in a spline nor a normally loaded & lubricated hydrodynamic bearing surface).