UK Bike Cop Killed on an ST

What I don't get about a lot of this is that the UK police don't buy vehicles on a whim. Typically a manufacturer will lend them one or two to test and evaluate which they do for many miles before finally deciding to purchase them. I am certain they would have done the same with the ST1300's and so I find it strange that this supposed fault didn't show up then. Perhaps, it will turn out to be something to do with the additional weight they carry in the panniers or the loose bulky clothing that they typically wear? Heck, I guess it could even be something as simple as the extra lights they fit? I have no idea, but I find it very odd that this information is creeping out shortly after a police motorcyclist has had a collision with a truck.

Regards,
 
Thought i'd post an update.

Merseyside Police have taken all their Pan's off the road due to this accident...

Quote "140mph police bike taken off the roads

Nov 21 2005

By James Glover, Liverpool Echo


MORE than half the motorcycles used by Merseyside police have been taken off the roads after an officer was killed in a crash.

PC David Shreeve died when his Honda ST1300 Pan European collided with a truck during a training exercise on the M58 near Skelmersdale last week" unquote.

The full story is here http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/...-off-the-roads--name_page.html#story_continue

There's a quote in this snippet from Honda themselves http://www.motorcyclenews.com/nav?p...d=3687882&articleCategory=NEWS_USED-BIKE-NEWS

What it doesn't say though is how the accident really happened, and i'm sure this will be gone into at the inquest. But, it may have just been rider error, and they are looking for a scape goat. That is my own personal view though and until the inquest who knows anyway.

I know from another forum i got to, and a posting by a London Met Police Traffic Officer, he confirmed that it had had the mods done that early Pans needed to stop the high speed weave. He also goes on to mention that many other Police forces in the UK may withdraw them from service and they are going to impliment a 100MPH limit when being used as mentioned in a previous post.

Bad press for Honda and especially Pans.

Alot of forces have been using BMW's as well as Pans, and i would expect that BMW may now be the favoured weapon of choice.

Its still very sad that a rider is killed no matter what bike he was riding, and i hope his family are getting all the help they need. :(
 
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I'm sure one of the other lads or myself from the UK, will update this as soon as we hear anything. It'll be good for us all to know why this tragic accident happened, and if indeed the bike was to blame in anyway.
 
This really sounds like a suspension problem. A lot of people feel that the ST is already "under sprung". I wonder if with the added weight of the emergency equipment and the change in aerodynamics if a suspension mod needs to take place to fix this issue...

Just thinking out loud.
 
I've recently owned a bandit1200S and Yamaha FZ6 and after owning the ST I believe there could be something to this. I have had up only around 115 mph and there is no comparing it to the stability of the other bikes I have owned. I never felt unsafe but it was not near as comfortable for me as the bandit or the FZ6.
 
Re: Possible police bike problem in U.K.

Wow. This is very sad for the officer(s) involved. What a tragedy really.

They do mention that its only related to Police versions with their heavy additional equipment. Let's see how Honda responds.

Condolances for the officers family, may he rest in peace.
 
I had the opportunity to play around on a ST1300PA demo model today. The biggest difference I noticed between the PA and my '06 was the handlebars. The PA's bars are wider by about an inch and flair outward a slight bit more. The PA riser brings the bar up (higher than the Heli-riser) but not back. Low speed riding was great as the bars give one a bit more leverage than the civilian bars but I didn't get to take it out for a high speed spin. The PA's are running Dunlop D220 tires.

BTW, the PA's have a governor on them limiting top speed to 120.

Despite being fully loaded, the PA really didn't feel that different from my civilian '06 (which has seen triple digits fully loaded with the GIVI topbox and been solid as a rock) with the exception of the bars. I agree with others who suspect suspension set-up issues although I suppose if one death-gripped the bars, with the added leverage, one could really upset their stability without realizing the amount of rider input they're giving.

Condolences to the fallen officers' families.
 
One thing that always crosses my mind in these things is that while we (or at least most of us out here) constantly mind the condition of our bikes. The same might not be true of bikes maintained by a municipality. I've worked for the government in several places, and I always was leery of taking a car from the "motor pool" because you never knew what its condition was.

Is it possible that the ST1300Ps that have been involved in these issues in England have not had proper maintenance (e.g., tire pressure, shock adjustment, brake repairs)? It just seems strange that these bike are used by so many people privately, and the private bikes seem never to have these issues. Do we know were eles beside in England that STs are used for police bikes (obviously, there are many here in the US). Have we heard any issues from any other users?

I also wonder if Big Moolah Werken makes sure that the press gets a full snoot of any bad press that comes up around the ST.
 
I had mine up to 115mph on the 605 Freeway in Southern California for about 7 minutes (couldn't believe my speedo wasn't broken). I was being tailgated in the carpool lane at 90mph and I wasn't passing anyone in the other lanes, so I punched it to get away from the guy, figuring I was probably doing about 80 mph at the time. Going home I was cruising along at an indicated 70mph and passed a car with a digital speedo. his speed was the same as mine. I have a Givi top box and at that speed I was not uncomforatable, and no stability issues. (It was a Saturday morning about 7:30 A.M.)
 
While I didn't have added weight on the back of my bike (trunk was off for other reasons), I did 108 mph and it felt just fine.
 
I had problems with off throttle weave at high speeds after the Honda top box was installed. One near fatal incident occured along Nevada's Hwy 50. I was heading east about 10am. I was traveling at speeds between 110 and 135mph on GPS. The weave was unpredicable when it occured. At one point I had passed a semi and the bike launched into a near uncontrollable weave. I sold the top box and moved to a smaller soft bag. The weave completely vanished. I won't go back to a top box. No way.
 
I am sorry to learn of the officer's death.

Do the UK cops routinely train at higher speeds than others?

I don't know enough about physics to make any broad, sweeping statements about high speed stability, but I have heard complains about other bikes. Any bike, set up poorly, can be unstable. The natural resting position for a motorcycle is on its side.

The equipment the cops carry doesn't weigh as much as your passenger nor is it placed as highly.

I ride a Police Spec Electa-Glide at work and some officers complain of fantom wobbles during off throttle turns. I took both my department's bikes out and (gradually) worked them into deep turns while chopping the throttle off. I found absolutley no problems.

I have Goldwing buddies that have read about the same thing. I just don't see it. Maybe some bikes are just set up poorly from the factory.
 
Re: Possible police bike problem in U.K.

the Force I work for withdrew the 1300 also, I experienced the weave but my bottle went and i gently shut the throttle, honda tried to pass the buck with us and claimed all sorts as the cause including " rider capabilities" which to me is utter b*ll.

We checked the worst of the bike, even had it into our local Honda dealers to firstly check all the torque settings on the engine/frame/swingarm and removed all the police equipment but it made absolutely no difference whatsoever.

We actually sent video footage of the bike to Honda to show them the apparent problem but it made no difference. Apparently after months of haggling the worst bike was returned and Honda eventually admitted that they didi not know what caused the problems on this bike but it was apparently returned to civillian spec and sold on to some unsuspecting member of the public.

I agreee fully with what HankSTer says and pass my condolances to the officers family, I could go into the saga in depth again but before the "crash" of the website I posted a couple of items fully explaining the experiences we had and if someone has more time than me, I am sure someone will find it. I am sure it was under wobble & weave or something similar.

I will try find the video footage and somehow try post it, but if anyone has questions please PM me and I will try explain again fully the problems we had.

Oh and to the unsuspecting member of the public who bought a white 04 plate 1300 from a honda dealer...unlucky and keep the speed down!!!

Ride Safe
 
The cop was killed in 2005. It's taken this long for the results of the inquest to be published.

The natural resting position for a motorcycle is upright when it's moving and only on it's side when it's stopped.

We have some UK cops here who can answer more accurately than I can, but yes the m/c cops here train at high speed. However, PC David Shreeve, the officer killed wasn't I believe a trainee... he was an instructor with quite a few years experience.

The thing I find scariest about the inquest results is as they say, it happens unpredictably, only under certain circumstances, and when it happens it's uncontrollable. So in other words, they too can and do ride at very high speeds with absolutely no problem and all of a sudden, one day, it happens. That's real tough to deal with and reconcile.

Regards,
 
We appeared to have two separate threads going on the same subject so I merged them together.

Regards,
 
Raven said:
I agree with others who suspect suspension set-up issues although I suppose if one death-gripped the bars, with the added leverage, one could really upset their stability without realizing the amount of rider input they're giving.
Click to expand...

Rider input was the second thing that entered my mind after the wieght of extra equipment/suspension set-up. Glad you mentioned it. I guess people (understandably) feel it would add insult to injury to suggest that the experienced rider(s) may have made an error or contributed in some way to the weave.
 
Hi Guys well the issue on this Highway policeman getting killed on his 1300 afraid was 9 November 2005, but the inquest only going on now. Incident happen while in high speed training on a motorway in Merseyside, full details were never fully been released but it involved rider overtaking and hitting a truck at very high speeds (approx 110mph) with a uncontrollable weave reported by the instructors following. A second policeman out training was also killed so after on his 1300 but note at low speeds and collided with a park vehicle.
This debate on the weave has opened up a huge response from other police forces in the UK, stating its excites and has been there since the 1300 was launched and adopted for the police and emergency services. Honda completely denied the problem and still do, but quickly brought out the top box spoiler and saying tires pressures were critical issue for the weave. (But sadly it did nothing to eliminate it)
This major concern on safety at high speeds has been mainly with the emergency services carrying extra equipment.
Its got to stage now since that November incident that many police regions are and have been withdrawing the 1300 from service completely and going back to the 1100 pan or BMWs.
It?s a bit of a tight lipped subject over here but some regions have told police riders not to buy 1300 even for they own personnel use. Many police riders if asked are open about the weave problem.
We have to openly admit the speed weave is over 90mph to 130mph and why are we doing that speed anyway and breaking the law. And would you have a claim against Honda if proven.
Its funny that here in UK pan riders who ride two up fully loaded report the weave less to almost zero then those riding solo with or without top box.
Here in the UK were 70mph is the limit but 80-90mph is normal. The pan sits at 90mph with out any indication of the speed. So its quite easy to get to drift up to a (possible) weave situation.
Fixed speed cameras are everywere in UK, in vans, mounted in unmarked cars and on bikes like Hayabusa to tail you on motorways. It?s a cat and mouse game now, which is a huge income for the police regions in fines alone, so yes we all do speed.
With the euro train now we can cross over and gain access to the autobahn with no speed limits, is were many off us who travel 100-130mph for long distances are aware that the weave comes and goes depending on road surface and wind direction. Its accepted now and it excites and those who do travel at these speeds are prepared to live with it.
It?s a fantastic bike the 1300 and not much can touch it, if asked only a few would consider a bike change for the above problem. Honda needs to be careful, as the public services are a big customer. UK police alone run nearly 500pans.
Voyager (UK North west Pan club)
 
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