The Future of Motorcycles

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It's interesting to see folks looking for ICE type solutions and efficiencies to rival e-options.

Nothing like the death throes of gasoline & diesel to make you rethink how you do things, especially for the large vehicle industry such as trucking.

Steam, Wankels, 2 stokes and turbines all played a part in history too. Let's see where this runs.
 
This will be an interesting science project.
Electricity and H2 will work for short distances and light loads.
They just do not have the energy density required for the long haul and heavy loads up a hill. This is where diesel is supreme.
Cryo H2 is like having TNT in your side cases. if you think bunning batteries is bad. You saw what happened to a failed rocket launch....

I have wasted too much time looking into the broken climate science hoax.
Maybe the world will wake up and realize that we are constantly being told a lie to hold up the façade.
There is no connection between the amount of Co2 in the air and temperature. None.
If any, it might have one in a million effect. That is so small that it makes no difference.
A total shut down of fossil fuels will not fix the climate.
However a 50/50 solution of gas and electric would be better as we need both for a better future.
We will need thousands of new natural gas power plants to power all the electric cars, trucks, stoves, heaters, water heaters, AC units., scooters, tooth brushes...
They need to be building thousands of them NOW to be available when the silly rules go into effect. Where are all the power plants being built?
The AC power transformer in your back yard needs to be ten times bigger. Who is upgrading all of those? power towers and wires being strung?
Solar is a joke. The sun is down when you need it most. You only get 8 to 5 hours of full power. Cloudy days you might get 10% power.
Net zero will not fix the climate, Trying to get there will not work and is not even necessary.
A fake problem that can not be fixed.
This is a sorry tragedy that is unfolding before us.

The climate is normal. All is good. It is just the weather and normal variation.
Go out and enjoy the ride while we can!
 
Go out and enjoy the ride while we can!

I think climate here is just the positive excuse, and won't debate the validity of it.

The reasoning for the paradigm shift has been put forth and adopted by the masses and now it's all about producers PR appearance, potential revenue and laws.

The change is being forced as much by the rule makers as by the engine producers now, and those balls are rolling.

We as consumers will have little to say other than the color we want it in and what tires we choose (and even the colors are dictated by what a producer provides....)

As long as I can still ride, I'll survive. Will it be better or worse? That's beyond my ability to foretell.
 
I think with a short sighted end to gas cars (2035 is going to come pretty soon without proper infrastructure and more importantly, money to make it happen), gas is still going to be around at least until the end of my days (who knows, another 30 or so years)- H2 may have validity, but you have to produce it, which is energy intensive. Same with corn ETOH, and BEV (gotta mine for all those minerals, and what does that take??? DIESEL!!!). I would agree petroleum reserves won’t last indefinitely, but there are potentially better ways. Hybrids are one, plug in hybrids another (to get at least 45-50+ mpg). BEV cars are clean once built, but the building process is energy intensive (for the battery pack)- I saw a recent video indicating it takes 200,000 kg of mined ore to make a battery pack of 450 kg weight. That’s a lot of burned diesel.

As for the politicians, they really don’t care, because they make policy now for a time when they’re no longer in power and have made their millions (or billions), so when it’s discovered it was flawed policy from the beginning, they’re free, clear, and unaccountable.

Plus, there’s not enough ore in the ground to replace every ICE engine vehicle, and batteries once made (at least now) are not really recyclable. As above, H2 has some promise, but it requires money and infrastructure (it has to be made, transported, and stored, yes, similar to gas now, but large scale national accessibility will be a huge challenge). Personally, I don’t see gas going away anytime soon, that is, unless the people at the top want to trash the economy, and not allow people to move about.
 
What can go wrong with an energy policy forged by political butt ki$$ers and money grubbing bureaucrats?
I was fully on board with the idea that we could/would do something positive to improve our production of harmful pollution. Then along came carbon trading/cap and trade. Sounds great in firey speeches. When I considered my convictions from my first sentence, I realized that it wouldn't take too long for the same folk to subvert it to a rather large money maker for the brokers....which no fool would fix.
When the UK/northern Europe ran short of energy due to the cold winter of 2021, no one commented much on the the level of the shortage...some 40% by a few estimates that wind/solar was insufficient to produce. Most of the culprit was Captain Trade.....much, coincidentally, of their capability was on paper only.....empty promises within the carbon trading 'industry' which is still lining the bank accounts of your favorite bureaucrats and mine. Lots of money going into the system; lots of empty promises/and fiery speeches to use the money to improve; but....
nothing actually accomplished.
 
I think climate here is just the positive excuse, and won't debate the validity of it.

The reasoning for the paradigm shift has been put forth and adopted by the masses and now it's all about producers PR appearance, potential revenue and laws.

The change is being forced as much by the rule makers as by the engine producers now, and those balls are rolling.

We as consumers will have little to say other than the color we want it in and what tires we choose (and even the colors are dictated by what a producer provides....)

As long as I can still ride, I'll survive. Will it be better or worse? That's beyond my ability to foretell.
Obo, when you're right, you're right.
You can only buy what they make and you can only ride what and then when they let you ride.
We're just passengers, whether the doom merchants or climate change deniers are right or wrong is immaterial, just ride when you can, tomorrow is tomorrow.
Upt.
 
I (we) are just powerless pawns and therefore at the whim of those who make decisions. Luckily or unluckily ,depending on how you look at it, I am pretty old and ice engines and petrols will still power my hearse. I do feel sorry for my kids and grandkids though, and not just because of transportation. Every facet of life is changing, and I'm not sure if it's for the better or not. They said that before the industrial revolution too I am told.

I don't have a lot of faith in the latest generation. They say our way of life is unsustainable. They may be right, who knows?

For now, I'm still riding. I will ride today, and tomorrow, and God willing for at least a thousand more tomorrows. After that all bets are off.
 
I (we) are just powerless pawns and therefore at the whim of those who make decisions. Luckily or unluckily ,depending on how you look at it, I am pretty old and ice engines and petrols will still power my hearse. I do feel sorry for my kids and grandkids though, and not just because of transportation. Every facet of life is changing, and I'm not sure if it's for the better or not. They said that before the industrial revolution too I am told.

I don't have a lot of faith in the latest generation. They say our way of life is unsustainable. They may be right, who knows?

For now, I'm still riding. I will ride today, and tomorrow, and God willing for at least a thousand more tomorrows. After that all bets are off.
However, you are riding an NC 750 X, which is way more efficient than some of the bigger bikes out there! Ride on and don’t worry.
 
This will be an interesting science project.
Electricity and H2 will work for short distances and light loads.
They just do not have the energy density required for the long haul and heavy loads up a hill. This is where diesel is supreme.
Cryo H2 is like having TNT in your side cases. if you think bunning batteries is bad. You saw what happened to a failed rocket launch....

I have wasted too much time looking into the broken climate science hoax.
Maybe the world will wake up and realize that we are constantly being told a lie to hold up the façade.
There is no connection between the amount of Co2 in the air and temperature. None.
If any, it might have one in a million effect. That is so small that it makes no difference.
A total shut down of fossil fuels will not fix the climate.
However a 50/50 solution of gas and electric would be better as we need both for a better future.
We will need thousands of new natural gas power plants to power all the electric cars, trucks, stoves, heaters, water heaters, AC units., scooters, tooth brushes...
They need to be building thousands of them NOW to be available when the silly rules go into effect. Where are all the power plants being built?
The AC power transformer in your back yard needs to be ten times bigger. Who is upgrading all of those? power towers and wires being strung?
Solar is a joke. The sun is down when you need it most. You only get 8 to 5 hours of full power. Cloudy days you might get 10% power.
Net zero will not fix the climate, Trying to get there will not work and is not even necessary.
A fake problem that can not be fixed.
This is a sorry tragedy that is unfolding before us.

The climate is normal. All is good. It is just the weather and normal variation.
Go out and enjoy the ride while we can!
My house is burning down but I am debating if there isn’t a better alternative to water for extinguishing the fire. Maybe it is time to poop or get off the throne.
 
My house is burning down but I am debating if there isn’t a better alternative to water for extinguishing the fire. Maybe it is time to poop or get off the throne.

I think this has moved onto "my house is burning down but I'm debating what materials should I build my next one from."
 
The reasoning for the paradigm shift has been put forth and adopted by the masses ......
Adopted by the masses of politicians and marketing firms of large corporations who see the appearance of being green as being to their advantage.
I am not so sure that the masses of Joe average have adopted it as whole-heartedly as we are led to believe. This has nothing to do with what I personally believe, I base this on my observance of people's actions. Even younger people who are supposed to be so green conscience belie that conviction when I watch what they do as opposed to what the media claim that they believe.
 
Even younger people who are supposed to be so green conscience belie that conviction when I watch what they do as opposed to what the media claim that they believe.
When I was a teenager the thing top of mind was buy a car, today that doesn’t seem to be a priority. I know lots of 20 somethings that haven’t even got their drivers licenses. So from that point of view they will be relying on public transit which is greener.
 
in other words; [presently] 200,000 : 450 works out to 445 lbs of processed earth from somewhere [kgs or what every you like] to get the raw materials to produce 1 lb of battery. [taken at face value from subsequent post, not the article]. After the energy used to get that, and what becomes of the mess left over, you still gotta make the battery. I'm as impressed as anyone with EVs but It would be good to get the whole picture.
Liquid Hydrogen on a motorcyle and other short stories is what I think forms part of the motivation of the pooled research and development; some if this technology isn't going anywhere, and when it doesn't the cost / benefit is shared and none of the shareholders will have gone too crazy or been left out. Hedging.
 
This will be an interesting science project.
Electricity and H2 will work for short distances and light loads.
They just do not have the energy density required for the long haul and heavy loads up a hill. This is where diesel is supreme.
Cryo H2 is like having TNT in your side cases. if you think bunning batteries is bad. You saw what happened to a failed rocket launch....

I have wasted too much time looking into the broken climate science hoax.
Maybe the world will wake up and realize that we are constantly being told a lie to hold up the façade.
There is no connection between the amount of Co2 in the air and temperature. None.
If any, it might have one in a million effect. That is so small that it makes no difference.
A total shut down of fossil fuels will not fix the climate.
However a 50/50 solution of gas and electric would be better as we need both for a better future.
We will need thousands of new natural gas power plants to power all the electric cars, trucks, stoves, heaters, water heaters, AC units., scooters, tooth brushes...
They need to be building thousands of them NOW to be available when the silly rules go into effect. Where are all the power plants being built?
The AC power transformer in your back yard needs to be ten times bigger. Who is upgrading all of those? power towers and wires being strung?
Solar is a joke. The sun is down when you need it most. You only get 8 to 5 hours of full power. Cloudy days you might get 10% power.
Net zero will not fix the climate, Trying to get there will not work and is not even necessary.
A fake problem that can not be fixed.
This is a sorry tragedy that is unfolding before us.

The climate is normal. All is good. It is just the weather and normal variation.
Go out and enjoy the ride while we can!
Please take this in the sense of a discussion.
Climate change is real, our climate is out of kilter, but how far it is man made is a moot point, it is here, our actions are not helping and what are we going to do about it?
To deny these facts at this point in time when you can see what is happening with your very own eyes is almost Monty Python-esque and to firmly dispute climate change is grotesque to the point of being on par with a flat earther level of ridiculousness.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mon...#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:54bc8505,vid:ee6-sI9rdtA

But that too is not the point, the point is that we need a stable climate to stay on the level we have now, not only that, our entire civilization relies on a cheap and abundant energy source, Now there are two ways to generate enough power to run our civilization, cheap and abundant but damaging to the climate, or very expensive and scarce, just not as polluting.
The math has been done and the verdict is in with the result that even if we were to stop creating atmospheric carbon, right now, at this very minute, we will still be in an entirely different world in a few short decades.
The other point is that it is becoming more and more expensive to generate power via fossil fuels, it is in the name."Fossil fuel" is finite and when it is gone, there is no more. in the Seventies for every calorie of net energy invested you could expect a return of 25 calories. To put that in perspective, in the seventies we burned a six square mile cube of oil every year, at the turn of the millennium we burned three and a half billion metric tons of oil, now we burn a billion metric tons more... each...and...every...year!
Now in the 2020ties for a calorie of oil burned for extraction, processing and distribution, the ratio is down to 1.75 with a declining return, at some point in the near future the energy source of fossil fuels is going to turn into an energy sink, meaning you are investing more calories than you are getting out of it.
By then we should have an alternative way to power our civilization in place or we will be back in the 18th century and unable to feed and support our planetary population of eight billion, I can see our extinction when this happens, only we will go not with a bang, but with a whimper.
 
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We need deasil, gas, natural gas, solar, H2, hydro, wind, nuclear, geothermal - any energy. I am all for progress.
But the climate is normal. Change is normal variation. There is no crisis. It is good to be prudent with our climate.
There is no scientific proof that C02 effects our temperature by any amount that is measurable.
You can believe what you like, but I see that the data and basic science shows other that what they claim.
If they were right. I would back them up. There are too many flaws in their reports and studies. Yes, I read them.
A mountain made out of an ant hill.
If you want to know more about Co2 get yourself a cheap Co2 meter and stick it in your bedroom or family room.
400ppm will quickly rise to 800ppm and in the morning it will be over 1600ppm.
The ISS has an upper limit of 5000ppm and submarines are said to be 8000ppm.
High levels are not healthy, but not deadly, and plants love it....
Open a window and let in fresh air you will sleep better.

A fellow engineer was telling me in a previous job he had two trucks, one gas, the other LNG.
The power difference was significant. H2 has a lower power density, as the article said, it will be good for scooters.

E-motorcycles are 4 to 12 HP (Suron, Zero) and the Tesla car runs at 15 HP !!! - Our ST1300 runs at 75 HP.
One has to be careful about these numbers as there is a difference in efficiencies.
But if you sucked out 350 hp on the Tesla car throttle, the 1,000 pound battery would be dead in ten minutes, since it only has the energy of two gallons of gas. Then you have to worry about dendrites. E-trucks get only one quarter the distance under load.

Again we need ten times more electric generation and transmission than we have. Not fifty percent more, ten times more!
All those charging stations have to get power from somewhere. They only give you the half that fits their story line.

I am looking forward to getting an E-Bike and a E-motorcycle, not by being falsely driven by climate fanticity,
but because it would be fun and it would fit the purpose of short trips with a light load.
Long trips I will stick to the ST1300. We can claim to be green as we are feeding the plants.....
 
Just a question: how can there truly be a "scientific debate" (not only energy / climate change, but ANY topic), when one side insists on censoring, banning, firing, ridiculing, jailing and canceling out the opposing views?
 
The climate is normal. All is good. It is just the weather and normal variation.
Go out and enjoy the ride while we can!

It's good to know that internet posters are able to offer better information than the best scientists of nearly 200 countries. Yeah, what do they know and what is their agenda.
 
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