Synthethic vs Normal Oil - 95 ST1100

yuergenb

yuergenb

Biking since 87'
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
74
Location
Athens, Ontario
Bike
1995 ST1100
New to the ST world, but not biking. I have never used synthetic oil in my old Honda's and maybe this has been over discussed, but I cannot find it on here, so:

1. Is it worth to use Synthethic vs Natural to the life of the motor?
2. Is the 95 1100 motor okay to use synthetic?
3. What do most people use on the ST1100's?
4. Does oil change frequency decrease with synthetic?
 
Another vote for Rotella Synthetic! 3000 miles between changes is too short (oil company marketing), if you ask me. 5000 miles should be OK, unless you are "hard" on it.
 
Smash, please ship me yur used oil. :D

I use Castrol 10W40 blend (50/50 synthetic/natural.) A little cheaper than 100% synthetic. I usually change mine yearly or ~10,000 miles, whichever comes first. The ST1100 motor is built like a car motor, plain bearings on bottom, cams in plain bushing, all with pressure oiling. Only diff is the tranny and clutch ride in the same oil. As long as the clutch don't slip, any oil will do. Change interval is up to you.

As far as motor life is concerned, my two 91's have nearly 300,000 miles collectively. Both run fine despite my abusive behavior. If ya change full synth. every 3000 miles, yur engines should last approx. twice as long. You gonna keep the bike that long? :D
 
yuergenb said:
New to the ST world, but not biking. I have never used synthetic oil in my old Honda's and maybe this has been over discussed, but I cannot find it on here, so:

1. Is it worth to use Synthethic vs Natural to the life of the motor?
2. Is the 95 1100 motor okay to use synthetic?
3. What do most people use on the ST1100's?
4. Does oil change frequency decrease with synthetic?
Click to expand...

I own a 01' 1100 standard and have been running mobil 1 4T full synthetic for the last 50,000 miles. Standard oil change per manual is every 8000 so I bumped it to 10,000. I found when I switched from dino to synthetic that the shifting became smoother. At 60,000 miles on the bike she uses about 1/8 of a quart over the 10,000 mile interval.
 
I have an ST1300, but even in my VTX I changed the Shell Rotella T synthetic every 8,000 miles and changed the filter every 4,000 miles. In my opinion, if you change the oil every 3,000 miles, just stick with dino oil because you are losing one of the advantages of synthetic, longer time between changes. It also helped my VTX to run cooler.
 
Tim Vipond said:
I changed oil and filters every 8,000 miles on my 1991 ST1100 and it lasted 135,000 miles, using mostly synthetic oils. ..... To help select a good motorcycle oil, take a look at this report: http://www.amsoil.com/products/streetbikes/WhitePaper.aspx?zo=1181889 .
Click to expand...

Now I'm confused by the early death of your ST.

Are you saying that the Amsoil was the reason the bike only lasted 135,000 miles, or are you saying that you wished you had used Amsoil so that the bike would have lasted it's normal 250,000+ miles??:D


Another Rotella T user here in everything, and couldn't be happier. The '93 ST1100 doesn't use or leak a drop, and old Yamaha is the same way. Keeping up with the hot Florida heat while still able to run thinner oil was my main reason to switch. I also prefer to use an oil that I can get anywhere at anytime, at a decent price. To help select a good oil, check out this info from a site that does not sell oil:
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

There's also the best rule of thumb, "eat where the locals eat", and from that I would guess most ST owners (as well as forum posts in most other brands of jap street bikes), use Rotella T.

:bigpop::bigpop:
 
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Tim Vipond said:
The Rotella that riders have used with success is no longer available and was replaced recently with a reformulated API SM/CJ4 oil, which has no long term history in motorcycles. So,why take a chance when motorcycle oils are available?

If you go to http://www.shellusserver.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3081&page=1#Post3081 where Shell Rotella T was used in a motorcycle and look at the smallest gear, it looks very worn. I would not want mine to look like that. .
Click to expand...

Oops, I think you linked to the wrong thread over there.
The link you provided shows a drag racing Pro ET bike with over 3 seasons and 500 passes on it, using Rotella T "dino" oil, and clean as a whistle inside. I can confirm the Rotella T Synthetic keeps by Buick 455 powered Pro ET car going for more than 7 seasons without a rebuild or any internal issues.

I still would not trust posts 100% at sites based on the sale of the product, (such as that Shell site), and would instead rely on posts from sites that have the same bike/car/boat that you run, and go by that real world experience.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Amsoil is great. But not easy to get on the fly, expensive, and IMHO a terrible product marketing strategy. (No offense, but I only posted in this thread after seeing the link to Amsoil for advice). If it was sold at WalMart or any autoparts store, it might be used by more people.

EDIT: Just looked some more at that Rotella T forum, and while I did not see anything about gears failing, I did see
New Rotella Synthetic meets JASO-MA specs.....Shell tech stated that the new Rotella synthetic 5W-40 meets JASO-MA specs.

http://www.shellusserver.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4109&page=1#Post4109
 
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AMSOIL is not bad, I use them on all my vehicle. Now that my ST11 is running great it will be an AMSOIL user also. The only thing is if you have older engine and have used dino oil all the time, be careful in using straight synthetic the first time. After awhile the oil becomes sludge if you don't replace your oil regularly and it will cling to gaskets and such. Synthetic oil have more detergent on them, this will obviously clean your engine and clean out the sludge however if the sludge is whats keeping your engine to not leak this will. On the other hand synthetic have more pluses like; it will last longer than dino oil(a lot longer), your engine will run a tad cooler, you're also helping the U S of A to be more energy dependent.
 
Tim Vipond said:
The marketing strategy has been very successful as they have increased sales on the average of nearly 20% a year for the past 20 years. I'm not aware of any other oil company with this rate of increase in sales, and most have experienced a decline in their motor oil sales. I am also not aware of any oil company that offers the depth of comparative performance to other oils, nor the shear number of available products to the consumer in a few days with home delivery.
Click to expand...

My issue with their marketing strategy is that they have dealers posting messages all over the place without posting a disclaimer that they are paid dealers of the product, and may profit off the post if they can persuade readers. They appear as just another member posting info. In fact it is another hidden sales pitch. If they did away with this sneaky method of advertising their product, they might gain more credibility. I don't like hidden reps passing the koolaid they were trained to push.

BTW, is that link you posted to Amsoil a referral link?
.....zo=1181889
Because I can get to same page if I delete that extra info...

:bigpop::bigpop::bigpop:

Now how about them filters, or tires.....:D
 
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Tim Vipond said:
I only suggested looking at current undisputed independent laboratory performance data and following the listed specifications of the motorcycle manufacturer in selecting motorcycle oil. Instead of blindly following some internet "experts" that somehow believe a newly reformulated API CJ4/SM truck oil that was not formulated for or tested in motorcycles, nor has any relevent historical motorcycle oil performance data, makes a great motorcycle oil without any proof.
Click to expand...

So who are you? You come on here and post in three or four separate threads puffing the Amsoil white paper (undisputedly a not even thinly disguised ad for the company that paid for it) saying or inferring the Pennzoil oil in the Amsoil ad piece is Rotella and not differentiating the Rotella product by weight, brand name, dino or synthetic. The white paper did not ever name the Pennzoil oil product of many they sell, so how are you more an internet "expert" that looks to be a shill for Amsoil bashing Rotella with no proof other than your opinion?

JASO testing and labeling is expensive and I don't fault a manufacturer that doesn't sell "motorcycle" oil for not going thru the time and expense to be so rated in order to sell a few hundred thousand gallons of the stuff to the market under MA rating when they still sell a few hundred thousand gallons to riders and sell millions of gallons of the stuff in other markets. For all years of ST1100 production and several years of ST1300 production Honda recommended API service classification SG or greater and recommended their own GN4 oil which did not carry JASO certification at the time. If the ST11-ST13 engine/transmission had ANY history of oil related problems during this period it would be known to this forum which has accumulated millions of miles running all sorts of oils meeting the primary recommendation of API SG or greater.
 
Tim Vipond said:
I am not bashing Rotella, which is fine for its' intended truck use, but the current API CJ4/SM formula is unproven in motorcycles. If you have data that shows the current Rotella will not harm motorcycles in the long run, please provide.
Click to expand...
Let's just stop here. Honda recommends engine oil API service classification SG or greater in many of its products and has for years. This includes API SM which current formulations of dino and synthetic Rotella meet. If Honda was not sure the newest SM classification would provide adequate protection why would their engineers go along? I have no proof that API SM Rotella will not harm liquid cooled OHC motorcycles in the long run, nor can I provide proof that any oil API SG along with JASO MA will provide any better protection in the long run when run in modern motorcycles. The best thing we all can do is use good quality oil and filters and change them at least at the manufacturer's recommendations.

See you on the road....
 
Tim Vipond said:
Nowhere does Honda state that API SM is recommended for motorcycles. Even API SL is not recommended unless it meets JASO MA. Honda does list JASO MA. How many wet clutch motorcycles sharing engine oil with the transmission, and motorcycle oils list API SM alone? API SG AND JASO MA. Motorcycle oils are formulated for and tested in motorcycles. API CJ4 Truck oils are not. Pretty simple. Why take the chance?
Click to expand...

Here is where Honda recommends API SM. In the owners manual and in the service manual. It reads "[4 stroke oil] API service classification SG or Higher". Capitals by Honda.

As we know, the API service classifications in gasoline engines have changed every few years since these ratings came into general use. According to the API for spark or gasoline engines each successive classification meets or exceeds the standards of the previous class. Thus Honda's printed recommendation of SG or Higher does not exclude SH, SJ, SL OR SM oils. Note that Honda does not limit recommendation to API SG only and that is plain and clear. It's getting harder to find SG only oils outside of motorcycle shops. I know, I still use it in my airhead BMW.

Truck oils rated API SM/CJ-4 meet Honda's recommendation of "SG or Higher". They are tested and approved for use in gas and diesel engines. They don't meet JASO MA but I don't worry about that. Honda's own oils did not carry the JASO certification for a long time and I think GN4 still does not (although my 2005 Honda service manual lists it as a recommended oil). I use synthetics and change them often enough that gear shear is not a factor and I choose a non-energy conserving oil that does not cause problems with a wet clutch.

I'll take the chance.
 
Tim, do you get compensated in any way when someone clicks on your referral link to that Amsoil generated whitepaper that you post in every thread?

If not, then why use your Amsoil dealer referral code number in the link?
Most forum sites do not allow referral codes for good reason, especially when the user posting does not state he works for the company and benefits from the code.

Also, if you are so sure of your product and company, why don't you be upfront about it, and add a line to your sig that you are a biased paid Amsoil employee that would be happy to help anyone out that would like to purchase some? Sort of like politicians need disclaimer to say their words are a political ad. This way, people that see your posts will know who is telling you what to say, so they can take all of your provided info as extremely biased..

Again, nothing against the product. I'm sure Amsoli is great. But stealth and shaddy marketing is a joke. Even when someone comes straight out and asks who you are, it is not until the 5th paragraph of your reply that you discreetly slap in a couple words that mention you are a (paid) Amsoil dealer.
 
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Okay, folks, let's tone down the spitting contest, shall we?

Here, directly from the 2003 owner's manual, is what Honda specifies for oil:

Screenshot-3.png

You may bicker among yourselves on the meanings of the commas and the word "or" therein.

Here, directly from the Japan Lubricating Oil Society, is a copy of the implementation manual for JASO T 903, which includes the specifications an oil must meet to bear the MA mark: CLICKY. Note please that those specifications include API SE through SL, which was the current spec when the document was revised.

That should be sufficient information for you, the consumer, to make an informed buying decision.

:bigpop:

--Mark
 
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