Article [13] ST1300 - Valves, Lessons Learned

[crazykz]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

I hit 20,000 miles on my trip so I am over due for a check. I am thinking dealer, and I never take my vehicles to the dealer for work.
How long is this job?
Is there a step by step instruction on the site?
Remove the cams??

The job length depends on if you have any valves out of spec. These are shim under bucket type valves so if they are out you'll have to pull the cams to replace the shims.

I'm not sure if there is a step by step but all you're doing is pulling the plastic and then pulling off the valve covers. At that point you'll want to measure them. Record what you get and then decide if you need to replace any shims. To remove the cams you'll need a another set of hands or two. You release the cam chain tensioner and then you can pull the cams while you have someone keep tension on the chain so it doesn't fall in or come off the lower gear. Tie off the chain with a bungee or something so it doesn't fall. The cam chain tensioner release for the right side is on top of the engine and is a pain to get to but a 3/16" wide screwdriver that is about 10" long will work to release it but you have to pull the air box and pull up the rubber flap to see the screw that needs to be removed to get to it.

Read the manual and if you've never done anything like this before I would suggest getting assistance from someone that has. I'll attach a spreadsheet I use for recording your shims and calculating the new ones.

Curt

 

[100MPG]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

The job length depends on if you have any valves out of spec. These are shim under bucket type valves so if they are out you'll have to pull the cams to replace the shims.

I'm not sure if there is a step by step but all you're doing is pulling the plastic and then pulling off the valve covers. At that point you'll want to measure them. Record what you get and then decide if you need to replace any shims. To remove the cams you'll need a another set of hands or two. You release the cam chain tensioner and then you can pull the cams while you have someone keep tension on the chain so it doesn't fall in or come off the lower gear. Tie off the chain with a bungee or something so it doesn't fall. The cam chain tensioner release for the right side is on top of the engine and is a pain to get to but a 3/16" wide screwdriver that is about 10" long will work to release it but you have to pull the air box and pull up the rubber flap to see the screw that needs to be removed to get to it.

Read the manual and if you've never done anything like this before I would suggest getting assistance from someone that has. I'll attach a spreadsheet I use for recording your shims and calculating the new ones.

Curt

Whoa! Spreadsheet? I dont even know what that is! I see you are in Wisconson, so that might be a little bit too far, but anyone in the northeast have a desire to tackle this? I was a mechanic in my younger years but this sounds like a job for someone who has done this at least once before. As long as I can ride it home the same day, I will be happy!

 

[CWDUSMC]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

Pulling the cams is the hard part and if you are not comfortable with that, then taking it in is the best option. However, checking the clearances is not that hard if you follow the instructions in the manuals and then you will know if you need to spend the money to have the shop do the work rather than paying them to tell you everything is OK. I concour with the remarks about whether the mechanics pay attention to what they are doing or just get it close. I have on two separate occasions had valve jobs done on my 79 Fiat 2000 (bucket & shim design also) and had the valves out of clearance when I picked up the head. If I did take my ST in, I would record the clearances before bringing it in, tell them I want a written record of what they did and then pull the covers after picking it up and verify the that the clearances are within limits! I may be overly paranoid but have have had less than stellar results in the past.
I just acquired my ST1100 and have 27000 miles so will be checking clearances shortly. I bought a set of valve cover gaskets to have them standing by but somebody posted that you can usually reuse the original ones so I may not have needed to spend the $45. I'll find out when I remove the covers.
Good luck.

 

[Whisperquiet]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

FYI, I just checked the valve clearances on my '04 ST1300..they were previously checked at 17,202 miles and were found to be in spec. The clearances are shown below at 37,000 miles...all in spec:


Front

Cylinder #1 Cylinder #2
Exhaust Intake Intake Exhaust

.009 T.007 .006 .009
.010 T.006 T.006 .009

Cylinder #3 Cylinder #4
Exhaust Intake Intake Exhaust

.010 L.005 .006 L.009
.010 L.005 L.005 .010

T= tight and L= Loose I used two sets of feeler gauges to to confirm the clearances and all is good for another 16,000 to 20,000 miles. I may have to re-shim a few then since several of the clearances have closed up about .001...we'll see.

Dennis

 

[Don B]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

FYI, I just checked the valve clearances on my '04 ST1300..they were previously checked at 17,202 miles and were found to be in spec. The clearances are shown below at 37,000 miles...all in spec:


Front

Cylinder #1 Cylinder #2
Exhaust Intake Intake Exhaust

.009 T.007 .006 .009
.010 T.006 T.006 .009

Cylinder #3 Cylinder #4
Exhaust Intake Intake Exhaust

.010 L.005 .006 L.009
.010 L.005 L.005 .010

T= tight and L= Loose I used two sets of feeler gauges to to confirm the clearances and all is good for another 16,000 to 20,000 miles. I may have to re-shim a few then since several of the clearances have closed up about .001...we'll see.

Dennis

I just bought my '03 ST1300 last month, & have been reading more articles & reviews on websites since I bought it. I don't yet have a shop manual for it, and the owner's manual doesn't tell on the spec. page how many valves it has, only the valve clearance specs. However, I read a review a couple of days ago that said the 1300 just has 2 valves/cylinder. Your list of measured valve clearances has 16 entries; is my recently-acquired ST a V-8, or did the dudes who wrote the review only count the valves on the right bank? My ST has 24k+ on it now, so I should probably think about checking clearances before too long, since I have no idea who the previous owner was or whether the valve covers have ever been removed. However, if your 37k mi. without any shim replacement requirement is typical, I guess I shouldn't lose any sleep over the issue for a while.

Don B

 

[Scooter]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

As long as I can ride it home the same day, I will be happy!

You should be aware that the clearances are measured when the temperature of the engine is at ambient. This means that if you ride to someones place for the measurement you might have to let it sit there for awhile to cool down first.

 

[Scooter]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

However, I read a review a couple of days ago that said the 1300 just has 2 valves/cylinder. Your list of measured valve clearances has 16 entries; is my recently-acquired ST a V-8, or did the dudes who wrote the review only count the valves on the right bank? My ST has 24k+ on it now, so I should probably think about checking clearances before too long, since I have no idea who the previous owner was or whether the valve covers have ever been removed. However, if your 37k mi. without any shim replacement requirement is typical, I guess I shouldn't lose any sleep over the issue for a while.

Don B

If you have a V8 in your ST1300 I'd like to see it!

You must have misinterpreted what you read... there are 16 valves in the engine. I'd be surprised if you needed to change any of your shims at this point in time.

 

[Don B]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

I just found the article that told the August 2002 MCN readers that the new 2003 ST1300 just had 2 valves/cylinder. Apparently they weren't looking very close. I really should have known better - even my '87 Concours (RIP) and '86 Suzuki Cavalcade (SOLD) had 4 per, and the Suzy's didn't even require routine maintenance. Woulda been nice if Honda had used self-adjusting (ie, hydraulic) valve lash mechanism, but I think I can handle valve adjustments every 15-18 months or so, even if it means leaving it to a pro instead of wrenching it on my own.

Happy Motoring

Don B

 

[Pete in PA]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

Well it appears there is no "normal" yet established for the ST1300.

If it follows how my XX behaved they never went out of spec in 80k miles. They are also shim under bucket. I kept checking and they never went out.

On the XX web sites guys were almost not even checking clearances any more.

I hope the ST goes this way.

 

[Ashcroft]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

What should I expect to pay a shop for labour to do the inspection if I've already removed the fairings and spark plug covers (and will replace them myself)? 1st if no adjustment is required and then if shims need to be installed say on both sides?
Thanks,

 

[crazykz]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

What should I expect to pay a shop for labour to do the inspection if I've already removed the fairings and spark plug covers (and will replace them myself)? 1st if no adjustment is required and then if shims need to be installed say on both sides?
Thanks,

I did exactly that and they took 15 minutes off the job and charged me somewhere around $400. I think the book says to charge $600.

Curt

 

[YR]

Re: ST1300 Valves, Lessons Learned

Curt,

Very interesting calculations and good insight on shim selection.

Without dismissing any of the considerations about which shim to select, I believe that the accuracy in feeler gauge measurements is somewhat overestimated. After all, this is a subjective measurement (as long as the feeler gauge goes in), and the definition of light drag versus perfect clearance is open for interpretation. This is especially true when the feeler is bent in 145 degrees, it is flexible, the measurement is done in four different directions between the different valves, some of the measurements are more constrained than others, and measurements are possibly done by two different hands of the same person, or even two different persons (say, 16k and 32k services, if you don't do it yourself). Add to that that one feeler may be more curved than another, and the fact that the feelers themselves have their own tolerance, and the picture becomes less clear.

A common concept in measurements is that the accuracy in measurements is similar to the smallest graduation on the measurement device (that is the increment between feelers in our case). Some claim that it is half of the smallest graduation (and sometimes confuse resolution with accuracy).

I would say that if one measures a clearance with a 0.001"-increment set of feelers, the certainty in measurements cannot be better than +/-0.0005", and I think that I am a bit generous here. This means that the tolerance of 0.010"+/-0.001" can be in the range of 0.010"+/-0.0015", if you include the uncertainty in measurements, which is probably what the manufacturer was aiming at in the first place. I would not be shocked to find out that the accuracy in many cases is 0.010"+/-0.002". For example, one measures 0.011" but the actual clearance is 0.012", misinterpreting the insertion of the 0.012" feeler as "too much drag", or one measures 0.009" but the actual clearance is 0.008", misinterpreting the 0.008" as "too loose fit". This uncertainty in measurements may add another perspective to the likelihood of actually getting to the nominal clearance when replacing a shim.

There are many contributors to uncertainty in measurements in such a technique (the feeler gauge method), and the above represents only a partial list.

Having said all of the above, I do too like to think that I am as accurate as one can be, and I find myself often going through the mental process of speculating on the actual gap if one feeler went in but the next one did not.

Yoed

 

[31johnson]

Re: Valves, Lessons Learned

Great articul, but thank GOD for Honda shops

31johnson

 

[crazykz]

Re: Valves, Lessons Learned

It's been a long time since I visited this thread so I thought I would pass on my spreadsheet again. I've completed the first sheet with a complete run down of what Scooter and I (mostly Scooter) found when doing the valves.

This was a complete valve job having to pull both sides and center everything. We used a hot cams shim kit lent to us by Jim!!!! Thanks Jim.

It took Scott and I working together about 6 hours to complete everything (not including the plastic). That's pulling the covers, measuring, pulling the cams, recording and replacing shims as necessary, replacing the cams, remeasuring everything and putting the covers back on.

So that's probably the longest you'll spend doing with someone that is versed in doing the job.

Thanks again Scooter for helping out again.

I've attached the sheet and this is my 65000 mile valve check. I didn't record the original check at 16000 but at 65000 nothing was way out but was on the cusp of the spec.

Curt