ST1300 Double Dark Side
- Thread starter ST-V4ever
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OP
OP
Scared the ***** out of me yesterday!
Coming home on the slab from an overnight ride up to Petoskey, seeing the new 75MPH speed limit, I decided to open it up on a straight, open stretch. Damn-near put it down when, at about 110 indicated (probably 103-ish actual) she went into an oscillation that I KNOW would have been A DISASTER if I hadn't let off the throttle immediately. I'm pretty sure it's a combination of the oversized Cal Sci windshield (which I had raised pretty high to keep the wind off me) and the flexible side wall in the car tire. That was 5 seconds I'll never forget!
A few weeks ago, I had noticed a tendency, with the shield in the up position, around 80-90, if I "twitched" the bars a little it would do a little oscillation before centering again. When I put the windshield down and repeated, it was almost non-existent.
Going to experiment with the stock windshield to see if that changes the natural frequency of the bike going thru the air. Scary stuff!
Edit: I think I'll try bumping up the pressure first (I've been running 28-29 psi) - maybe bump it up closer to 40 PSI to see if that helps. Stay tuned.
Coming home on the slab from an overnight ride up to Petoskey, seeing the new 75MPH speed limit, I decided to open it up on a straight, open stretch. Damn-near put it down when, at about 110 indicated (probably 103-ish actual) she went into an oscillation that I KNOW would have been A DISASTER if I hadn't let off the throttle immediately. I'm pretty sure it's a combination of the oversized Cal Sci windshield (which I had raised pretty high to keep the wind off me) and the flexible side wall in the car tire. That was 5 seconds I'll never forget!
A few weeks ago, I had noticed a tendency, with the shield in the up position, around 80-90, if I "twitched" the bars a little it would do a little oscillation before centering again. When I put the windshield down and repeated, it was almost non-existent.
Going to experiment with the stock windshield to see if that changes the natural frequency of the bike going thru the air. Scary stuff!
Edit: I think I'll try bumping up the pressure first (I've been running 28-29 psi) - maybe bump it up closer to 40 PSI to see if that helps. Stay tuned.
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I like 32psi in mine, GoodYear Triple Tred. With trunk on I get the weave at 110 mph, but with pilion location filled (body or bag) or trunk removed, I get no weave.
I did 18k with a car tire on my Valkyrie. I thought it handled fine, until I went back to a mc tire and realized how much better the handling was. It was just a lot more fun riding with the mc tire back on, and I would think the difference would be even greater on an ST compared to the Valkyrie. But I never felt unsafe. Oh another plus was that I could tell a real difference in lifting the bike off the side stand, with the car tire it almost automatically right red itself.
it's a personal call, I loved the CT on the Valk. Greatly improved the slow speed handling, and worked well for my riding style.
OP
OP
By the way, the bump up to 38-40 psi makes it feel more stable at high speed, although I haven't repeated the 110 MPH test. I've heard that the top trunk (genuine Honda on mine) makes these more susceptible to the "pan weave" as it's called.
I'm pretty sure that I was feeling the combined effect of...
1) Pan-weave susceptible ST1300
2) Top Trunk in place
3) Larger windshield, raised pretty high
4) Dark side tires
5) Lower (28 psi) pressure in the rear
I'm pretty sure that I was feeling the combined effect of...
1) Pan-weave susceptible ST1300
2) Top Trunk in place
3) Larger windshield, raised pretty high
4) Dark side tires
5) Lower (28 psi) pressure in the rear
Not trying to offend anyone who thinks their car tire is the cats meow, however, the rim was not designed to to mount one on it, the bead is different for car vs motorcycle tires, tire pressures are just a guess at what is correct, profile, etc. Then putting a rear motorcycle on the front is just as silly IMHO. Some are directional, now channeling the water under the center of the tire, etc.
And don't even get me started with the NEGLECT aspect of it on the bearings, brake pads, and splines, since folks don't check anything for a long time.
I once asked my insurance company (long time friend) what they thought of folks who use rear tires on the front, and car tires on the rear of motorcycles, he said I would not have a good enough lawyer if I got into an accident, or caused one.
He also said the insurance companies now check on the tires for an "out" of paying out on claims.
And yes, some can cause very dangerous weaves.
Flame retardant suit on.
And don't even get me started with the NEGLECT aspect of it on the bearings, brake pads, and splines, since folks don't check anything for a long time.
I once asked my insurance company (long time friend) what they thought of folks who use rear tires on the front, and car tires on the rear of motorcycles, he said I would not have a good enough lawyer if I got into an accident, or caused one.
He also said the insurance companies now check on the tires for an "out" of paying out on claims.
And yes, some can cause very dangerous weaves.
Flame retardant suit on.
Heard it so many times Larry, no suit needed.
Help someone that needs assistance and we are all good in the darkside category.
You have a wonderful day.
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I did get a chance to test max braking on my Darksided ST the other day, someone turned left in front of me. I braked so hard that both front and rear ABS activated. Having experienced this once before on MT's, I believe that braking distances were decreased slightly. That rear CT really grabs the road. As evidenced by the fact I'm typing this, no contact was made.
I drove across my wet lawn and left a track on the driveway. I am only single dark but one can really see how much more rubber is on the road with a CT...
OP
OP
This wet tread mark reminded me...
When you look at this picture of my 3/4 worn rear MC tire, you'll see the result of riding on the straight roads around here - flat center. Now, consider how much contact you have when leaned-over on that sharp profile - not much I can tell you! I felt these tires slipping in the wet corners with this 5,000-mile wear on them!
I have over 11,000 miles on my General Altimax car tire with not a hint of this situation. I'm an engineer, and without first-hand experience, I would be the first to argue that these car tires on bikes are not safe, based on theory - but I would MUCH rather ride on the CT after my first-hand experience with both.
When you look at this picture of my 3/4 worn rear MC tire, you'll see the result of riding on the straight roads around here - flat center. Now, consider how much contact you have when leaned-over on that sharp profile - not much I can tell you! I felt these tires slipping in the wet corners with this 5,000-mile wear on them!
I have over 11,000 miles on my General Altimax car tire with not a hint of this situation. I'm an engineer, and without first-hand experience, I would be the first to argue that these car tires on bikes are not safe, based on theory - but I would MUCH rather ride on the CT after my first-hand experience with both.
A couple weeks ago I ran into a GL1800 rider who had a car tire on his bike. While following him I watched his tire squirm around in the turns. At a rest area I asked him what pressure he was using in the tire, and he said "oh whatever they usually say on the forums" etc.
I pulled out a water bottle and poured some on the ground and suggested that he roll the bike through it. The rear tire made two lines on the ground (each outside edge) as the center was curved upward and not touching the ground. The tire appeared under inflated, but the guy didn't seem to care because that's what he said all the kids are using now a days.
I pulled out a water bottle and poured some on the ground and suggested that he roll the bike through it. The rear tire made two lines on the ground (each outside edge) as the center was curved upward and not touching the ground. The tire appeared under inflated, but the guy didn't seem to care because that's what he said all the kids are using now a days.
With over >80K miles double dark on 08 & 14 GW's....can't believe me and the "little woman" are still alive!! ;-)
OP
OP
16,000 miles and not quite down to the wear indicators. I plan to run it past the wear indicator point, since it still has plenty of tread on the sides, where most of the cornering traction comes from. Should have another 4k to 5k miles on this tire. [emoji1]
Find anything worth talking about???
I've now worn out 2 CT on my 05. First one was a Hancook. It worked great but only lasted 18k miles. 2nd was a Pirelli P3. Really liked it. I started off running 32 psi in it and discovered well into it's life that the centre was wearing faster. So I dropped it to 28. This likely cost me several k miles life. It's well into the wear indicators now and I'm taking it off tomorrow at 28k miles. It would have gone another few thou if I'd have wanted to but why push it. I've got a Toyo waiting to go on. Not sure yet if its going to fit or not so I'll update tomorrow.
I've also run a Pilot Activ (bias rear tire) on the front. Mixed feelings with it. It's on there now for 32k miles and still lots left. Always ran 42 psi. It still has a nice rounded profile thanks to the dual compound. Granted it is somewhat cupped, but not so bad as to be a problem. But it doesn't have near the traction that I'd like. It's started to 'wash out' twice in the rain - just a poor choice for rain. I've felt it start to slide under hard braking as well. When I look at these positives and negatives that I just mentioned, the answer is most likely because of a hard compound and also much older technology. So I'm going back to a MT for the front until something better gets found for the front.
I'm definitely a true darksider for the rear. I won't go back. Far superior traction, far superior life, cost per mile of use is a fraction of a MT, under heavy loads at high temps the security of knowing your tire's not going to fail because it's waaay overrated, handling only suffers at slow speed.
I've also run a Pilot Activ (bias rear tire) on the front. Mixed feelings with it. It's on there now for 32k miles and still lots left. Always ran 42 psi. It still has a nice rounded profile thanks to the dual compound. Granted it is somewhat cupped, but not so bad as to be a problem. But it doesn't have near the traction that I'd like. It's started to 'wash out' twice in the rain - just a poor choice for rain. I've felt it start to slide under hard braking as well. When I look at these positives and negatives that I just mentioned, the answer is most likely because of a hard compound and also much older technology. So I'm going back to a MT for the front until something better gets found for the front.
I'm definitely a true darksider for the rear. I won't go back. Far superior traction, far superior life, cost per mile of use is a fraction of a MT, under heavy loads at high temps the security of knowing your tire's not going to fail because it's waaay overrated, handling only suffers at slow speed.
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I tried one too.. didn't like the buzz feeling, prefer the BT-45. Have you tried the Bridegstone?
I was sure I replied to you a few days ago - guess not. I have not tried the Bridgestone. What's the grip like? Is it 'large' like the Michelin? My Michelin picked up a stone, it got wedged between the tire and the fender and cracked the fender out to the side edge. When the Mich was new it rubbed a lot till it wore down enough/rubbed the fender down enough. I'd rather not play that movie again. Amazing life, though.