Article [13] ST1300 - Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

Kevcules said:
Speaking of cold, I saw some clown driving his motorcycle today? It was 2 celcius (36F) with wet flurries!!?? He really wanted to drive it I guess....
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LOL - couldn't have been me - we are too far apart. But I'm still riding, and actually plan to ride this evening. As long as there is no ice, salt or sand on the road, I'm good - I'm used to dressing for the cold! :D And, yes, I can't get enough - it will be a long winter....
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

MaxPete said:
You too Kevin - and BTW, I was out on my totally naked '76 Yamaha XS650C yesterday and it was great....in the thermal suit I bought from ST Owners member Smash.

Of course, here in the Banana Belt of the Nation, it isn't quite a chilly as it is out there in Lobsterland.
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haha.....yes, here in lobster land it was actually snowing while he was driving.Cold is one thing, but wet snowy roads? I can hardly keep my "rig" up in dry conditions!:)
Good on those that can handle the real cold weather riding. I guess if your dressed warm enough.....nah screw it! Below 4 celcius (39F) is always too cold for me! :)
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

Northernkm said:
LOL - couldn't have been me - we are too far apart. But I'm still riding, and actually plan to ride this evening. As long as there is no ice, salt or sand on the road, I'm good - I'm used to dressing for the cold! :D And, yes, I can't get enough - it will be a long winter....
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Good stuff.....we did have a late start to the winter this year. Not a drop of snow until the last few weeks.Cold weather riding to me is like golfing in the rain...no fun! :)

PS....how's your back doing Pete? I remembered your back and this thread yesterday , right after I slipped off my deck today landing on the stairs, on my back! Welcome winter! :)
 
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Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

I'm nearly healed....now I just need to get out from under some work and I'll get that darned CSC done.

Cheers all.

Pete
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

Hi Everyone
Being new I'm taking notes. Sure do appreciate every one's informative input. Having bought a 2005 ST1300 earlier this fall that is in excellent condition not much is needed done. But riding days here in Indiana are gone (for me anyway). It's project time for a few minor fixes ( coolant change, flush & bleed brakes, and clutch ) My clutch master cylinder leaks at plunger so rebuild or replace it is needed. Anyway on the subject of the CSC project wish ya good luck. I hope it's not one many fellow ST owner's have to do or get done. I may have some suggestions for some useful tools I'll get back with you. Randy
 
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Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

Good Morning
After rereading this thread I see you have a plan of attack. My thought's for reaching the hydraulic line woud be a crows foot on the end of a long extension. Any way someone go's about getting this line off & back on is going to be a trick. Hope all go's well.
 
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Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

MaxPete,

What became of your grand adventure? I've been waiting with baited breath.
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

Hi Mohonda / All:

OK - well, it has been a long journey and I'm still not there yet. After Christmas, I had some business travel and then came down with an olympic class crud that has kept me out of the garage for several weeks. It didn't much matter because it was too darned cold out there anyway.

HOWEVER - this coming weekend is supposed to be beautiful in Windsor (15C / nearly 60 deg. F) so I hope to do it on Saturday or Sunday. By way of preparation I now have a full set of flex handle ring ratchet wrenches (see photo) which, I am told make the job fairly manageable and so I think this will go OK. I sure hope so after all this bloody time.

BOERMF712A.jpg


I will keep you posted - and thanks for the helpful comments, encouragement and patience.

Pete
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

Don't mean to rush you. I'm going to be performing the same repair soon so I will be paying close attention to your experience.
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

No hurry Pete...I know the feeling of a cold garage with freezing tools just waiting to be used! :) It's surprising how we don't think motorcycle very much when it's cold or there's plenty of snow on the ground? We just had about 80cm drop on us in the last few days and another 30cm coming on thursday. Any serious amounts fall in Windsor?

take care......
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

Mohonda, I promise that I will keep a good set of notes for you.

Kev - no big snowfalls here. We mostly get cold temps and grey crappy mush. Between the temps and debilitating fits of coughing, I am pooped, but I'll get there.

P
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

wow.......excellent write up! Good job
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

Congrats Pete for a job well done! And for the write up! I don't look forward to replacing mine!
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

Thanks Kev.

This danged thing has been a big deal to me for several months and so I have been watching and it seems that is quite a spate of people having this problem right now. Once again, here is a run-down of the symptoms:
  • clutch function and lever feel are quite normal (until the fluid level drops below the minimum in the master cylinder);
  • fluid level in the clutch master cylinder on the LH handlebar drops (you`ll see it in the sight glass);
  • no visible leak under the bike (at least, not at first);

And again, a couple of caveats:
  • do NOT spill clutch hydraulic fluid (it is really DOT4 brake fluid) on anything that is painted - it will destroy paint nearly instantaneously;
  • cleanliness is next to godliness when working with hydraulics - so keep things very clean and only use fresh fluid from an unopened bottle when doing this task;
  • the bike will work just fine, as long as you keep the master cylinder reservoir full;
  • BUT - eventually, the CSC leak will become so bad that the cylinder will not be able to actuate the clutch and then you are stuck with a disabled bike;
  • how long this will take - who knows, but pushing an ST1300 wouldn`t be very much fun, I`ll bet;
  • the CSC replacement job is not easy - but it certainly can be done by anyone who has a reasonable amount of skill, and it doesn`t cost a lot (less than $100 in parts), nor does take very long doing it the way I described;
  • BUT the cost to have a dealer do it `by the book` is literally $12-1800 - which is a fair percentage of what the bike is likely worth.

Anyhow, glad to be of help.

Cheers,

Pete
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

SupraSabre said:
Congrats Pete for a job well done! And for the write up! I don't look forward to replacing mine!
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Thanks Supra - you`ve done so much for some many of us with your experience and advice (not to mention stockpiling STs for us all later) that I am happy to be able to return the favour.

One thing - I noted from your earlier post on this subject that you are planning to use a hoist for your CSC replacement.

I`d love to have a hoist myself and there are many jobs which it would make waaaayyyy easier - but replacing a CSC is not one of them IMO. The hoist would simply make access more difficult because you really need to get UNDER the middle of the bike. I had a mechanic`s back pad and a piece of carpet ready to put down on the garage floor but my agile young helper Craig was down there before I had a chance to lay them out. In fact, he had the old CSC off in about 5-10 minutes!
The real issue is having those flex ring ratchet wrenches - good long ones with fine motion pawls - and the vacuum bleeder. The wrenches sold by Snap-On tools are the way to go on this task, I would say. I paid around $20 for each one - and they're well worth the price.

Cheers,

Pete
 
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Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

I have been following this thread and this other recent thread of the same issue https://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?148019-Clutch-fluid-leak and i am not sure what to think of one thing. The OP in the other thread says he sees no external leak and must be leaking internally. MaxPete, you say there is no evidence of a leak at first. My question is , would it be possible for the clutch fluid to leak in to the engine oil or is there a barrier and the clutch/brake fluid has to leak out? The reason this even entered my mind is I havent heard anyone mention that they changed their oil afterward and was wondering if they should be.
 
Re: ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement

Hmmmm - now that is a very good question indeed BMacleod.

There is a seal in the little chamber or cavity in which the end of the CSC sits. The clutch pushrod runs through that seal and I don't know if it passes through a tube running through the crankcase or if it is simply in there with all of the engine oil and engine & tranny parts whirling around. I am sure that somebody on the Forum has been inside an ST1300 engine but I don't know who that might be because these things seem to be so darned reliable (except, of course, for my clutch slave cylinder issue).

It is worthwhile noting that the ST1300 clutch is wet - like nearly all modern bikes - which means that it actually runs IN engine oil (unlike manual transmission automotive clutches, which are nearly all dry), so I doubt that the presence of a bit of brake fluid would cause any slipping or other clutch problems. Similarly, there are around 3-4 litres of engine oil in circulation and I know that I didn't add more than a few ounces of brake fluid to my clutch the whole time my CSC was leaking - so the dilution ratio would be tiny if any occurred.

Finally, the clutch slave cylinder mounting incorporates a weep hole in the housing that is about 2-3 mm in diameter (1/8 inch) and so any leakage into that chamber will eventually run out of the weep hole rather than cause problems with the engine/transmission unit. BTW - that means that the gasket on the CSC mounting does not actually seal anything - because any liquids inside the CSC cavity (whether its clutch fluid or engine oil) will simply run out of the totally open weep hole. Incidentally, engine coolant (aka "water") pumps, including that on the ST1100 and ST1300, also incorporate weep holes for the same reason - so that engine coolant cannot get into the engine oil system if the coolant pump seal fails.

My experience with the CSC was that my initial problem was a very soft clutch which caused me to check the fluid level. The clutch master cylinder was just about empty. I topped it up and after a few days of riding (including several hundred km of combined highway and city miles), my clutch fluid level had dropped noticeably again and so I topped it up. The next morning, there was a spot of brake fluid on the floor under the bike about the size of a silver dollar (so the weep hole was working properly).

The other interesting thing is that when we took off the old CSC yesterday, there was perhaps a tablespoon of fluid still in the CSC cavity in the rear engine case which dribbled out onto the floor of my garage. During the time my CSC was leaking I had to top up the master cylinder twice - the first time, it was nearly empty and the second time, it was down to the lower limit. The total amount of fluid I added was actually pretty small - the entire system volume is small as you can see from the tiny amount of fluid we captured from the bleeding operation in my custom-made Heinz ketchup bottle fluid reservoir.

So...all that leads me to several conclusions:
1) if you catch a clutch fluid leak soon - it should not cause any problems with the engine itself:
2) any excess leakage will eventually wind up under the bike and you should see it on the garage floor;
3) but by then, you will likely have lost clutch actuation because the master cylinder will be empty - and that will force you to do something about it.

One thing to note: the ST1100 clutch slave system is completely different. Those lucky dogs have their CSC bolted to the front of the engine right on the clutch itself - and so changing the clutch slave cylinder would be (as the Brits say) a "doddle".

Anyhow, great question thanks!

Pete
 
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Ahhh, okay. I thought it looked like there was a seal around the pushrod, but i didnt realize there was a weep hole too. Shouldnt be an issue then. Good write-up.
 
Great write up, Pete! Although I found it much easier to do it with the bike laying on it's side, I'm glad you could do it on the side stand. I just like sitting and looking forward, rather then flat on my back looking up.
 
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