Science of Balancing Beads

Sometimes they only way you know if something works or not is to try it!

Since years ago I used a substance called "Balance Plus" in my tires to balance them, I knew from that, that the gooey stuff spinning in my tires made my tires feel balanced.

After Byron packed up and headed east and left me on my own to do my tires and balancing, and after failing at trying to balance my own tires, I was told by one of the guys on the Facebook ST-Owners about the ceramic beads, so I tried them. I actually like them better, because I haven't had a front tire cup ever since!

The ONLY draw back that I have come across with them is that when you plug a tire due to a nail or screw or?, the beads will beat the crap out of the plug and you'll have to replace the plug after a thousand miles or so (I actually got 2K out of a plug).

So other than that, and like so many other things (like Lane Splitting - that so many here wouldn't do - but haven't tried it) if you haven't tried it, don't knock it! :well1:
 
To no one in particular: the title says "Science of Balancing Beads", not "Anecdotes of Balancing Beads".

Every time this topic surfaces (here or other forums), those supporting balance beads passionately present anecdotes as if they're proof, point out irrelevant sensational test videos, or state what the bead-sellers say (with oft strange explanations that defy physics). And engineers refute that balance beads work (using physics).

I'm reminded of a saying that I have on my office wall:
For those who understand, no explanation is necessary.
For those who don't, ... no explanation is possible.
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(^It works both ways)

So either they do work and no one has yet produced proper scientific explanation, or they don't work and many remain convinced they do. There's ample confirmation bias!

What's missing? Engineering dynamics first-principles explanations coupled with objective, measured test data. I've yet to see testing of an actual balanced and mis-balanced tire out on the road, using accurate instrumentation (not someone's dynobutt feelings), with and without beads, in a highly controlled experiment at different speeds and road conditions (which only the best engineers know how to perform, without bias).

Maybe this thread will be different though. :rolleyes:
 
Andrew Shadow said:
I don't get it yet.
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...and neither do I Andrew.

It is like fuel economy testing - there are SO many variables and SO many things that can make any two tests not truly comparable, that even experts can argue about the topic. In the hands of non-experts, fuel economy testing is simply bunk.

In engineering we have a saying: "If you torture data long enough, it will confess to anything."

Pete-out
 
BakerBoy said:
What's missing? Engineering dynamics first-principles explanations coupled with objective, measured test data. I've yet to see testing of an actual balanced and mis-balanced tire out on the road, using accurate instrumentation (not someone's dynobutt feelings), with and without beads, in a highly controlled experiment at different speeds and road conditions (which only the best engineers know how to perform, without bias).
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never gunna happen because if riders found out that once their rims were balanced the modern motorcycle tire rarely needs anything :p
 
Andrew Shadow said:
For every internet post of anecdotal evidence you can find stating that they work you can find another internet anecdotal post stating that they don't so neither claim carries much weight.
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With you apparently not. For me I've considered only the sources here and what I think I've learned from their various posts over time.

To that end a random post stating 'you may as well swing a cat by the tail' or some such that offers no details or experience carries no weight and negates nothing.

I'm sure there are borderline examples where the user believes what they want to believe being unable to resolve subtle differences. Like when your bike runs so much better after an oil change. Or high-end stereo gear sounds better because RCA cables installed in the direction opposite the arrows were reinstalled 'correctly' (Monster Cable reference) or using a green marker on the edges of CDs.

So the anecdotal references given here supporting tire beads carries some weight with me.

I might not have seen or know how some bits of metal can be stuck and removed from a refrigerator door at will but if someone who's knowledge I trust tells me it's so I might 'drink the Kool-Aid' and try it myself. Trust being the operative word.

The science behind the beads would be interesting to know and I'd like to see it explained. But the two demos tell me that within limits the beads do work. Now if somebody could produce a video showing that weights work but beads don't (assuming no massive heavy spot to start with) I'd be interested.
 
SupraSabre said:
if you haven't tried it, don't knock it!
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I'm not sure that's the point of the thread. The Big Question posed is — how does it work. It was stated early on that it's not about debating the merit i.e. the do work/they don't work.

I don't care about comparisons made via scientific process and examination. I'd like to see the scientific explanation. Satellites orbit the Earth. Some even stay in the same spot above the Earth while orbiting it. There are scientific explanations of the physics involved assuming we can trust scientists. :biggrin:

Someone somewhere understands the physics that allow tire beads work and can explain it. That would make an interesting read.
 
BakerBoy said:
To no one in particular: the title says "Science of Balancing Beads", not "Anecdotes of Balancing Beads".
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Correct- that is what interests me. Thanks for pointing it out.
MaxPete said:
It is like fuel economy testing - there are SO many variables and SO many things that can make any two tests not truly comparable, that even experts can argue about the topic. In the hands of non-experts, fuel economy testing is simply bunk.
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Yes but the variables that affect those test results are well known, understood and explanable. I have not found an explanation of the science behind balancing beads which is why I asked.
MaxPete said:
In engineering we have a saying: "If you torture data long enough, it will confess to anything."
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Kind of like accountants stating that figures don't lie but liars figure?
Daboo said:
Have you tried contacting the sellers? If not, why not?
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Yes (Counteract and Dyna Beads) probably 18 months or so ago and I received a form letter response from both referring me to their websites.
Daboo said:
Are you trolling?
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I truly don't know. This is the only forum that I have ever participated in so I am not much of a forum person so I don't really have a good handle on what that really means. Based on the tone of your response it doesn't sound like it is a behavior that is particularly desirable however. If I am doing it it is not intentional. All I can offer you is that I was unsuccessful in finding anything that seemed to be reputable science so I asked if anyone here had any links to offer. I fail to see anything terrible about asking that nor will I apologize to anyone who doesn't like that I asked it. Everyone is free to choose to not read this thread if that is their preference. I won't take offense.
ST Gui said:
The Big Question posed is — how does it work. It was stated early on that it's not about debating the merit i.e. the do work/they don't work.
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Again. correct- that is what interests me. Thanks for pointing it out.
ST Gui said:
Someone somewhere understands the physics that allow tire beads work and can explain it. That would make an interesting read.
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I agree that someone must. Based on that assumption and my curiosity all I did is ask if anyone could point me towards that explanation.
 
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FWIW, back in the UJM days when tires were about $50, my favorite tire shop in Orange County would mount for free, and a spin balance was another $10. I quit balancing tires on the premise that even if the tire wore unevenly, if I got 83% (50/60) of the life out of it compared to balancing, I broke even. If I noticed any funny wheel hop/bounce at high speeds, then I'd go back to balancing. Went several years without balancing, and never noticed any difference. It may have been a case of the old weights were never taken off, so the wheel was always close enough to balanced anyway, but my empirical evidence didn't suggest that balancing a tire perfectly was of any great value. I think I finally got forced back into balancing when I moved to San Diego and the local tire shops didn't give me the option of declining balancing.

It may be similar when using the beads, if its balanced close enough, there's nothing to notice. YMMV.
 
Looks like a good day to mount my new set of Centramatics balances on the new Wing. Yep, had them on the previous Wing, but they wouldn’t fit the new bike, so I had to buy a new set. Once, and done.

Ride Safe
John
 
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