Blrfl
Natural Rider Enhancement
Really, there's nothing. The clutch either grips 100% of the time it's engaged or it doesn't.
--Mark
New Water Pump...
- Thread starter roginoz
- Start date
Really, there's nothing. The clutch either grips 100% of the time it's engaged or it doesn't.
--Mark
OP
OP
I went ahead and ordered the parts for a clutch replacement today. It was about a hundred and eighty bucks. I just as soon do it now and avoid having to break back into things farther down the road. I could measure plates and springs and order them if out of spec, but it would mean another week of downtime waiting for parts and put the rest of the job on hold. I think we're good to go as far as tools are concerned. (We can always make a road trip to Ada for machine shop work and shooting if we get stuck...)
acedantinne
Site Supporter
Ok, PM Your address. BoB
When I replaced my clutch in the '05, we found that several of the springs were out of spec, probably causing that "mushy" feeling I was getting out of mine, Probably just not engaging completely/slipping (which is what I was calling that mushy feeling..
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- Joined
- Feb 11, 2006
- Messages
- 8,437
- Location
- Jacksonville
- Bike
- GL1800 R1200RT NC700
- 2024 Miles
- 026983
I had a worn clutch before both in a car and a motorcycle and I wouldn't describe it as mushy. If you give it gas and see the rpms rising and the speedometer the same or slowing - the clutch is slipping.When I replaced my clutch in the '05, we found that several of the springs were out of spec, probably causing that "mushy" feeling I was getting out of mine, Probably just not engaging completely/slipping (which is what I was calling that mushy feeling..
Reginald
cyclepoke
Not my experience. I've had the clutch replaced on three cars now. A ford and 2 Mazda's. All of them felt mushy driving around before I had them replaced. I tested the clutches by bringing up the RPMs and dumping the clutch; got major slippage then the wheels started to turn.
On my KZ1000, the clutch just went out, no warning, or I didn't read it right.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2006
- Messages
- 8,437
- Location
- Jacksonville
- Bike
- GL1800 R1200RT NC700
- 2024 Miles
- 026983
Yes, read my second sentence.
Reginald
cyclepoke
Got it now.
I didn't assume you popped the clutch because mine never slipped (to my notice) after they engaged.
OP
OP
I got the water pump cover off, and removed the front crankcase cover. The impeller was pressed out using a hydraulic press, according to the manual, and the impeller ball bearing was removed with a bearing puller and slide hammer (after heating the bearing seating area. The mechanical seal was removed using the hydraulic press, so I'm down to reassembling the new parts.
Using the shop manual and parts fische, observing where things were prior to disassembly, and checking what fits where, I've established where everything but one part goes. There's a small seal that appears to fit underneath the impeller ball bearing on the back side of the crankcase cover. Nothing else fits the small depression in the casting that houses the bearing. I assume that the old seal popped out when the bearing was pulled, but we haven't found it. This seal is #9 (oil seal) on the parts fische: http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2005-honda-st1300-st1300/o/m2528#sch409983
This seal is solid on one side, and has a groove (with a tensioning spring) on the other side. I don't know which direction the groove faces. If it's there to keep crankcase oil from flowing forward into the pump on the front side of the crankcase cover, I would assume that the groove should face rearward towards where the engine oil is.
Any guidance from those who've done this job, or who have a better understanding of seal placement than I?
Clicking on the photos should make them a bit clearer.
Using the shop manual and parts fische, observing where things were prior to disassembly, and checking what fits where, I've established where everything but one part goes. There's a small seal that appears to fit underneath the impeller ball bearing on the back side of the crankcase cover. Nothing else fits the small depression in the casting that houses the bearing. I assume that the old seal popped out when the bearing was pulled, but we haven't found it. This seal is #9 (oil seal) on the parts fische: http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2005-honda-st1300-st1300/o/m2528#sch409983
This seal is solid on one side, and has a groove (with a tensioning spring) on the other side. I don't know which direction the groove faces. If it's there to keep crankcase oil from flowing forward into the pump on the front side of the crankcase cover, I would assume that the groove should face rearward towards where the engine oil is.
Any guidance from those who've done this job, or who have a better understanding of seal placement than I?
Clicking on the photos should make them a bit clearer.
OP
OP
For future reference: the open side of the seal faces back, towards the bearing. Also, the ceramic seal slips onto the impeller shaft, with the rubber side facing the impeller and the ceramic surface facing rearward. This wasn't visible in the shop manual, and isn't readily apparent on the parts fische. It looks like there may be a bit of wear on the ceramic surface after 110K miles, and the mechanical seal looked a bit tired, but I was surprised at how good everything else looked. Also, the inside of the crankcase was pristine; a testament to the Mobil 1 4T and the K&N filters, I guess. The worst part of the job is getting the gasket off the front crankcase cover. Some Permatex gasket remover and a slightly dull flat Xacto gouge (don't want it sharp enough to take out the aluminum) did the job in a couple of hours.
Scooter
This space for rent...
Timely information Roger, thanks. I was going to press out the impeller tomorrow.
On another note, if you have the new clutch plates on hand can you measure the thickness on a couple of the friction plates? I'm curious what new plates measure at. I'm going to order new springs because I'm right at the service limit on those but my plates seem to be in fairly good shape at around 3.78mm. My manual gives the standard range for the disc thickness at 3.72 - 3.88mm with a service limit of 3.5mm...
acedantinne
Site Supporter
I got the water pump cover off, and removed the front crankcase cover. The impeller was pressed out using a hydraulic press, according to the manual, and the impeller ball bearing was removed with a bearing puller and slide hammer (after heating the bearing seating area. The mechanical seal was removed using the hydraulic press, so I'm down to reassembling the new parts.
Using the shop manual and parts fische, observing where things were prior to disassembly, and checking what fits where, I've established where everything but one part goes. There's a small seal that appears to fit underneath the impeller ball bearing on the back side of the crankcase cover. Nothing else fits the small depression in the casting that houses the bearing. I assume that the old seal popped out when the bearing was pulled, but we haven't found it. This seal is #9 (oil seal) on the parts fische: http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2005-honda-st1300-st1300/o/m2528#sch409983
This seal is solid on one side, and has a groove (with a tensioning spring) on the other side. I don't know which direction the groove faces. If it's there to keep crankcase oil from flowing forward into the pump on the front side of the crankcase cover, I would assume that the groove should face rearward towards where the engine oil is.
Any guidance from those who've done this job, or who have a better understanding of seal placement than I?
Clicking on the photos should make them a bit clearer.
Sorry just caught this 1. The spring side of seal all ways goes to the fluid side. I hope this helps U. U have it as open side. Take notice that the bearing holds the oil seal in there. I used a little Sil-glide on seal & pressed in with my finger up against the small housing rim. DO NOT FORCE THE SEAL IN, hard against the rim on housing. Before all that has happen clean drip hole out with pipe cleaner.
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OP
OP
The new plates are .15 (3.81mm); it looks like there's .01 between new and worn out. My old plates were .145, halfway worn out. I'm replacing them anyway, since I have everything opened up and don't want to do it again. (And, I have the parts on hand.)
Scooter
This space for rent...
Good info Roger, thanks...
Smallville
Scott
When the shop replaced my water pump on my 06 under warranty, they had to do it twice as the first one leaked. Not sure what the issue was.
Also when they removed the gasket from the crankcase side, they forgot to block off the bottom of the engine and gasket material ended up in the oil pan and plugged up the front oil pickup. Be sure to cover that area when working there.
Also when they removed the gasket from the crankcase side, they forgot to block off the bottom of the engine and gasket material ended up in the oil pan and plugged up the front oil pickup. Be sure to cover that area when working there.
acedantinne
Site Supporter
With what U stated. After getting the ST back together, Running, take a ride, 500 miles or more get all that gasket material flushed down in the lower oil sump. Pull the oil pan & clean both pick up screens. Easy job to do. I drain oil hot leave bike drain for 2 days.
Well as all I can say is thanks for all the info. I have an 07 that I'm getting ready to tackel. Just for information, I contacted the dealer to get a price and they want about $400+ parts, they claim at least 4 hours and I have to wait for a couple of weeks so they can work it in. The parts on line are only about $120. I figure with a few of my friends I have all the faith I can tackle this easily, as long as I take my time. Thanks for the info on assuring the sprocket doesn't come off when I remove the cover. I figure if I can get past that possible snafu, the remaining part should be well worth me saving the $$$ on labor. I'll report the progress and hopefully the completion.
I don't see any mention of the dimensions when pressing the water pump shaft and impeller assembly back in... my shop manual says that it is supposed to be 21mm from the back of the bearing to the end of the shaft. When I put it in this dimension, the impeller rubbed against the outer pump casing, making a horrible noise. I pulled it apart again and found that I had pushed the bearing out of the housing at some point and the dimensions were off. Second go around, still making racket, like the impeller is rubbing on the casing face, as before, but not as loud. How critical is that 21mm? is it a min or max dimension? I am gonna pull it apart again and press it until the impeller no longer rubs on the housing but I would like to know why that dimension is there... anyone? anyone? bueller?
Thanks,
Harv
Thanks,
Harv
Thanks for the help! I used 24mm, reassembled and only this morning read the link, due to some PC issues. He says 23.5mm. either way, it is better than the first go round. Sadly, when I came in to surf the web for a solution and whine about it, I left the ignition on and did not realize until Monday afternoon, when I tried to retest it. SMH... hope to have time to get back out in the shop today.
Thanks again!
Harv