Lighter Bike Search

[Mellow]

Didn't WOQNX just turn over 350,000 miles on his ST? Wonder if he has had a shaft failure?

No failures because;
"3 Ujoints. They seem to have a normal life of 125,000 for me."

He's actually replaced a lot of stuff to keep the bike on the road, it's not like it's 100% stock and original equipment.

If it were me I'd replace every 50k since that's when my ST1300 had an issue.

@Shuey had a failure on the road - can't find that thread and may have been lost after a hosting move.

@Gandolkf had one that started a small fire as I remember

Yes, not a lot.. but they do happen... EVERY bike has issue and things you have to watch out for, you just get the bike that works for you at the moment and be as aware as you can of it's shortcomings or weaknesses and what you might need to do to address those on the road - if you can.

I know some BMW riders w/1150s would even carry spare final drives just in case.. lol.. Another reason why I stayed away from them until now as now they are designed much more like Honda final drives.. but not perfect.. you still have to do some periodic checking on the u-joint which is actually easier since it's towards the rear of the bike vs at the transmission output shaft like on the ST.

Anyway... what were we talking about again lol... oh.. light bikes... lets see.. a GL1800 is heavier than an ST1300 but feels lighter... lol

 

[diferg]

Over-tightening is particularly wear-inducing to chains on dual sports, as they typically have more suspension travel than pure streetbikes, thus stressing and stretching a chain to a larger degree, which as one might expect, wears both sprockets faster at the same time. So yes, a little looser is a lot better.
Note to self: probably not the time or place to bring up the dreaded "which is the best chain lube", so I won't do it.
So please excuse me now, while I go duck and cover...

The BEST chain lube is a shaft drive!

 

[Ken Valkyrie]

Hondas have had shaft issues.. but, for the ST1300s anyway, it's been u-joint failures and it begins as a slight vibration but has ended in a fire in some cases or destroyed final drive section as the u-joint locks up. Still rare but has happened. My U-joint went out at 50k miles but I caught it in the garage.

The Valkyrie had many drive spline issues but that seemed to be related to dealers / owners NOT using moly when doing a tire change and reinstalling wheels. That was actually somewhat common given the small niche market / sales associated with the Valk.

Replaced u-j on my 2001 Valkyrie about 50k, sold it at 80k and 2nd owner still enjoying it
Thankfully u-j still going strong at 76k on my ST

 

[Sadlsor]

Although today's chains are less problematic than they were prior to the invention of the sealed O ring and X ring chains, they are still problematic, in that if you ride a chain drive bike on a tour, you cannot take off without the tools and lube to service that chain on the road.

As @Mellow reminds us below, the original topic was "a lighter bike", and shaft drive inevitably lends to a heavier bike. Chain adjust tools don't require anything outside what I normally would carry in my tool roll for all my dualsports.
So, not to continue beating the deceased equine, it's just another piece of motorcycle maintenance, but as we ARE on a forum dedicated to shaft-driven Hondas, it's understandable that others feel as you do.
As I mentioned earlier, I DO appreciate the shaft on my 1300, as well as the push-button windscreen adjustment.

@Gandolkf had one that started a small fire as I remember

The "occasional" fire at the final drive was widely circulated with the BMWs after they went to the "big bearing" around 2005, which was eventually traced to incorrect bearing alignment and torque upon initial assembly. The videos went viral, amid the hysteria.

I know some BMW riders w/1150s would even carry spare final drives just in case.. lol..
<SNIP>
Anyway... what were we talking about again lol... oh.. light bikes... lets see.. a GL1800 is heavier than an ST1300 but feels lighter... lol

I'll never forget around that same time, the die-hard BMW fanboys of the Iron Butt community would in fact, carry a spare final drive "just in case", so as not to allow that remote eventuality crush their Iron Butt Rally Finisher dreams.
Some former IBA beemerphiles actually did leave their long-beloved Bavarian steeds in favor of the GoldWing, vowing never to return.
Sadly, there were a couple of IB entrants who failed their bi-annual quest due to a failed BMW final drive.
Der Korp made it worse, in my view, with their hit-or-miss warranty replacements. No apparent consistent policy decisions.

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.
-- Mary Chapin Carpenter

 

[CDNolddude]

I don’t ride two up like the OP which may limit the number of choices for him, but I would rather choose a smaller bike with a chain and mag wheels/tubeless tires, than one with shaft drive and spokes/tube tires.
ie

 

[dduelin]

I know BMW had a final drive issue (reportedly affecting 5% of the BMW's) but I don't recall shaft drives being particularly bothersome on Japanese bikes...or Moto Guzzi's for that matter. I hate to think how many millions of miles have been put on Goldwing's and FJR's shaft drives since 1976, and although I am sure there have been some failures, I'm also sure that number has been so small as to be considered outliers.

Although today's chains are less problematic than they were prior to the invention of the sealed O ring and X ring chains, they are still problematic, in that if you ride a chain drive bike on a tour, you cannot take off without the tools and lube to service that chain on the road. Nobody I know takes off with tools to service their shaft systems. Additionally, many of us have driven a hundred thousand miles or more on shaft drive bikes with very little maintenance, some moly on the splines and a few ounces of rear end fluid once a year. If you ride 100,000 miles on a chain drive bike you are for certain, without doubt, going to have to change out the whole system, chain plus front and rear sprockets, at least twice probably more.

Chain systems are very reliable (although they do fail too), relatively cheap to manufacture and replace, but IMO best used on motorcycles not meant to be ridden a lot of miles because of their finite life. At least that's my opinion. But like I said earlier MOST motorcyclists don't ride many miles and don't keep their bikes very long, so a chain for them is not an issue, they are never going to replace it anyway.

Some shaft drive touring riders take tools to remove the wheels for flat repair or tire replacement on the road. Take these tools and a 12 and 14 mm wrench at most and one has everything necessary to adjust a chain on the road or at home. A sandwich bag contains the materials to lube the chain many many times. Not many chain drive touring riders take off from home and ride enough miles to even require a chain adjustment much less replacement of chains and sprockets.

 

[Larry Fine]

I came up with a chain-adjustment method that minimizes slack, which should help maximize mileage, while avoiding over-tightening:

The factory recommends 3/4 to 1-1/2 inches of slack with the bike on the side-stand, but how accurate is that?

The ideal slack is as little as possible without ever getting tight, so I use my own procedure. I start by lubing it after a warm-up ride, then let it cool, maybe overnight, and on the center stand.

I remove the seat and route a tie-down strap over the bike frame, under the swing-arm on both sides, back over the bike frame, and hook the strap ends together. I then tighten the strap, compressing the rear springs, until the sprockets are in a straight line with the swing-arm pivot, which is where the chain will be tightest.

I then rotate the rear wheel several times while checking the chain for the least slack, as chains don't wear evenly. Once I find the position with the least slack, I adjust the chain for very little play, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch. That's as tight as it can be without the risk of it being too tight.

 

[dduelin]

I came up with a chain-adjustment method that minimizes slack, which should help maximize mileage, while avoiding over-tightening:

The factory recommends 3/4 to 1-1/2 inches of slack with the bike on the side-stand, but how accurate is that?

The ideal slack is as little as possible without ever getting tight, so I use my own procedure. I start by lubing it after a warm-up ride, then let it cool, maybe overnight, and on the center stand.

I remove the seat and route a tie-down strap over the bike frame, under the swing-arm on both sides, back over the bike frame, and hook the strap ends together. I then tighten the strap, compressing the rear springs, until the sprockets are in a straight line with the swing-arm pivot, which is where the chain will be tightest.

I then rotate the rear wheel several times while checking the chain for the least slack, as chains don't wear evenly. Once I find the position with the least slack, I adjust the chain for very little play, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch. That's as tight as it can be without the risk of it being too tight.

Why not measure the difference between slack at full extension of the swing arm and slack on the side stand and add that amount to Honda’s recommended slack of .75” to 1.5” on the side stand? Then with that figure you could accurately set it on the center stand without the gyrations of removing parts and compressing the rear suspension. This is what I do with my NC700X. Honda calls for 30-40 mm slack on the side stand. With the bike on the side stand and slack set at 35 mm - average of 4 measurements to account for chain wear at different check points. I then measured it on the center stand. It was 40 mm or 5 mm more than the side stand measurement. So going forward I simply measure it on the center stand for a range between 35 and 45 mm. It can be done anywhere at any time.

 

[bdalameda]

I came up with a chain-adjustment method that minimizes slack, which should help maximize mileage, while avoiding over-tightening:

The factory recommends 3/4 to 1-1/2 inches of slack with the bike on the side-stand, but how accurate is that?

The ideal slack is as little as possible without ever getting tight, so I use my own procedure. I start by lubing it after a warm-up ride, then let it cool, maybe overnight, and on the center stand.

I remove the seat and route a tie-down strap over the bike frame, under the swing-arm on both sides, back over the bike frame, and hook the strap ends together. I then tighten the strap, compressing the rear springs, until the sprockets are in a straight line with the swing-arm pivot, which is where the chain will be tightest.

I then rotate the rear wheel several times while checking the chain for the least slack, as chains don't wear evenly. Once I find the position with the least slack, I adjust the chain for very little play, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch. That's as tight as it can be without the risk of it being too tight.

Once you do this one time you can measure the slack with the bike on the center stand and make easy adjustments in the future. This is basically what I did with my Africa Twin, once I got it right I now have the slack measurement which happens to be exactly right when I pull up on the chain in the center between sprockets and the chain can just touch the swingarm chain slider. I removed the shock link arm bolt and could simply move the wheel up to where the chain was at the tightest point and then was able to measure the slack to get an accurate measurement.

 

[bdalameda]

If I had an extra $15K lying around that Motoguzzi V100 Mondello would make a great stablemate for my Africa Twin. Too bad dealer support for the Guzzi is lacking here in the states. I came really close to buying the V85TT before I bought my AT.

 

[core-aggie]

Too bad dealer support for the Guzzi is lacking here in the states.

There's the top reason I'd never consider a Guzzi.

 

[Ken Valkyrie]

Because its always in gear, lean on that little tab just a little bit and the bike will take off with no way to disengage the power. (No clutch)

I have never rode a model with DCT, but the Rebel 1100T DCT is on my current short list.
I have to make about 5 point turns to get my ST parallel to my front garage wall, for our cars to fit.
If I am understanding you correctly, the DCT would be very difficult for me to do that kind of forward & reverse to parallel park.
Now I have no problem with the ST clutch, engine forward, feet for reverse.
I would appreciate more clarity on the DCT function, even safety in tight maneuvering.

 

[mello dude]

I like the NC750X that Mr Ferret describes. As others have mentioned, it's the chain drive that puts me off... and I'm reluctant to lose the V4 engine. That's why I have a VFR1200X Crosstourer.

But for those who can tolerate a chain and want something in the 800cc range, how about the Crossrunner VFR800X?



It's 98hp, and has a V-TEC V4 engine. It's a bit heavier than the NC750X though at 242kg (534lb).

In USA, stating the obvious.... what about a VFR800? ... Worried about chain adjustment? With the single sided swingarm, chain adjustment is stupid simple.
Same running gear as the Crossrunner above...

Still a lighter bike is going to be a stretch for two up... your wifefy will compare everything to the ST.

 

[TPadden]

In USA, stating the obvious.... what about a VFR800? ... Worried about chain adjustment? With the single sided swingarm, chain adjustment is stupid simple.
Same running gear as the Crossrunner above...

Still a lighter bike is going to be a stretch for two up... your wifefy will compare everything to the ST.

VFR800F, VFR800X Crossrunner and VFR1200X Crosstourer were all dropped from Honda's range with the introduction of Euro5 in 2021.

Tom

 

[the Ferret]

I have never rode a model with DCT, but the Rebel 1100T DCT is on my current short list.
I have to make about 5 point turns to get my ST parallel to my front garage wall, for our cars to fit.
If I am understanding you correctly, the DCT would be very difficult for me to do that kind of forward & reverse to parallel park.
Now I have no problem with the ST clutch, engine forward, feet for reverse.
I would appreciate more clarity on the DCT function, even safety in tight maneuvering.

Its kind of hard to explain but the DCT is kind of like a scooter in that at idle you are sort of in neutral as the DCT clutches disengage (similar in function as a CVT), so t won't go forward without giving it gas. Once you give it some gas the DCT clutches engage (like the CVT expanding). You can inch forward on a DCT, I walk mine into my garage/ parking spot at 1 mph, but it's only about 10 feet, so I don't think you would have an issue with your 5 point turn, but for grins I will try some jockeying on mine this afternoon and let you know how it goes. I back mine out of the garage by hand and swing it around so it's pointing up hill to leave.

dduelin also rides a DCT 700 I think, so he may be able to answer that better than I.

 

[dduelin]

I have never rode a model with DCT, but the Rebel 1100T DCT is on my current short list.
I have to make about 5 point turns to get my ST parallel to my front garage wall, for our cars to fit.
If I am understanding you correctly, the DCT would be very difficult for me to do that kind of forward & reverse to parallel park.
Now I have no problem with the ST clutch, engine forward, feet for reverse.
I would appreciate more clarity on the DCT function, even safety in tight maneuvering.

DCT bikes have an automatic clutch that disengages below a certain low rpm such as 1000-1200 rpm. It begins to engage when you increase rpms. There is a small friction zone where the clutch is slipping and not fully engaged. If the bike is in one of the forward drive modes the clutch engagement / disengagement is entirely rpm dependent

When the DCT bike is in first gear at idle or running an rpm below the clutch engagement rpm the bike is just like a manual transmission bike in first gear with the clutch pulled in. To inch forward you would just open the throttle slightly and as rpms increase the clutch begins to take up just as if you let out on the clutch lever of a manual bike. To stop inching forward you close the throttle to idle.

 

[the Ferret]

I did some 3 point turns this afternoon... forward one direction, stop, turn bars while paddling backwards, stop, and then turn bars and pull forward the opposite direction. Easy peasy so I 'd imagine you have no problem with 5 point turns.

 

[bdalameda]

I have never rode a model with DCT, but the Rebel 1100T DCT is on my current short list.
I have to make about 5 point turns to get my ST parallel to my front garage wall, for our cars to fit.
If I am understanding you correctly, the DCT would be very difficult for me to do that kind of forward & reverse to parallel park.
Now I have no problem with the ST clutch, engine forward, feet for reverse.
I would appreciate more clarity on the DCT function, even safety in tight maneuvering.

I don't think you will have any problem parking a DCT bike. I don't have any issue maneuvering my DCT moving it in my garage or getting in or out of a parking space. The DCT at idle is just like pulling your clutch in and there is little drag preventing you from pushing back on the bike to move it back and forth.

 

[dduelin]

….. The DCT at idle is just like pulling your clutch in and there is little drag preventing you from pushing back on the bike to move it back and forth.

I’ve heard about this “drag” before about the Africa Twin DCT but the NC700/750 has no such drag when idling in gear. Did you ever do a clutch initialization on it to see if the drag was eliminated?

 

[bdalameda]

I’ve heard about this “drag” before about the Africa Twin DCT but the NC700/750 has no such drag when idling in gear. Did you ever do a clutch initialization on it to see if the drag was eliminated?

I guess I did not explain very clearly exactly what I meant. There is very little clutch drag at idle on my DCT, you can barely feel it at all. I can easily push backwards when in gear at idle. I did a DCT recalibrate/ initialization after about 1K miles when I first got the bike. Not that it needed it but I wanted to see how the procedure worked.