Is the classic sport-touring motorcycle doomed to extinction?

[W0QNX]

Sport Tourers are dead Jim, stick a fork in it.

 

[the Ferret]

Another factor could be the demographic of those with enough money to buy touring bikes. ie. older people like most of us. A more upright riding position and wider bars make for a more comfortable ride (at least for

I just finished 2 weeks in the NW of Spain on an NC750X. Turns out to have been a great bike for the roads we went on (narrow 1.5-2 lane, very twisty). It had a TON of luggage capacity, more than ample power (if kept above 4k rpm), could cruise comfortably at 80-90 on the freeway. I could see replacing the ST with something akin to that when/if the time comes.

So.....Touring bikes are not dead. They are just being redefined based on many factors; not the least of which is market.

I was wondering how your time on the NC 750X worked out. Was it the DCT like you thought?

I'm now older demographic. 75 on my next cake day. I'm small, and not very strong anymore. Some medical issues. Personally, I can no longer handle the 600 & 700 pound sport tourers anymore, going from my ST 1300 to an FJR 1300 to a sub 500 pound NC 750X DCT, and find the light weight and upright seating position more pleasurable now, and more important than outright horsepower now that I am older.

I would have considered an NT 1100 DCT had Honda brought it stateside 3 years ago, but I'm afraid at this point even if they brought it in now, I'd have to pass. The NC 750 is doing everything I am asking of it. Could it use more power? Sure just for the thrill of it. But for under $10 K brand new, it's a wonderful motorcycle...very capable, and on my last tank I got 81 mpg on regular gas which allows me to ride that much further for my motorcycling dollar.

 

[TerryS]

I would say whether or not the ST market is dead or alive, we can be grateful we got in when the ST bikes were available- this past Sunday when on a walk, a rider with a new (2018+) GW passed me and that smooth opposed 6 sound got to me…went home and broke out the 94 for a very nice ride. I originally thought how nice one of the GWs would be, but then those thoughts faded as I rode the 94- 30 years old and still a great bike. Newer bikes have more stuff and better tech, but I’ll stick with old and reliable (and paid in full).

I will admit I was interested in the NT1100 for a while, but that never made it to the US. Looks nice (except has chain drive):

I test rode the NT11 when it came out and had a real "meh" response to it. Certainly light, and reasonably peppy, but all the time I rode it, the thought was "this ain't no ST". Yes the 1300 is heavy but that also provides a rock-solid feeling. The NT felt kind of "disposable" by comparison.

There is a great deal of satisfaction to be had from riding something old and cheap; I do love riding my 6-year old MT-10 with most of the bells and whistles, but a long day cranking on my 25-year old VFR800 that cost 1/3 as much is very satisfying, as is my high-mileage ST1300.

 

[Big_Jim59]

I am just glad I finally got my ST, even if it is a bit rough around the edges. I thought I would forever lament selling my fifth gen VFR800 but for my stage in life I like my ST even more. The specific sport touring model, like the ST is probably dead due to declining ridership, declining purchasing power and declining interest in riding as leisure. This has everything to do with Boomers shuffling off this mortal coil. Their taste in bikes is dying too. It's the Harley-Davidson problem. In any case, I am just glad to have mine even if my family has to sell it for scrap after my demise.

 

[rwthomas1]

Maybe I'm the anomaly, wouldn't be the first time... 99% of my riding is commuting, 84 mile round trip, any day weather permits. The ST1100 is great at that mission, and though I'm an advocate of this bike and older machines, I also understand reality. Most don't want to deal with doing all their own maintenance and sourcing obsolete and used parts to keep the old girl rolling. There are very few options that check all the boxes for my mission, at any price.

The ST1100 will carry a rolled up Aerostich suit in one of the hard bags. At any given time I have mixture of a lunch cooler, heated gear, gloves, mesh gear, bike cover, etc. etc. I don't see a lot of options to replace the ST for reasonable cost. I actually like the NC750X, with a larger windshield it might be a good option. But no hard bags. Honda, are you listening? How about a set of integrated bags? Yes, I know, a top box. But no, loaded I don't like the effect of weight up high and out in back. Givi's always look like what they are, a second thought. So close but no cigar....

I'll probably end up with a GW bagger once the used prices come down, or a BMW, if I'm still doing this in a few years. Then again, maybe not. A friend just scored a really, really nice '96 ST1100 with 48K on it. Popped a coolant hose under the carbs, and the owner didn't want to deal with it. $200 on Craigslist.....

 

[Erdoc48]

‘Popped a coolant hose under the carbs, and the owner didn't want to deal with it. $200 on Craigslist.....’

Man, that’s a steal. Well purchased.

 

[the Ferret]

The ST1100 will carry a rolled up Aerostich suit in one of the hard bags. At any given time I have mixture of a lunch cooler, heated gear, gloves, mesh gear, bike cover, etc. etc. I don't see a lot of options to replace the ST for reasonable cost. I actually like the NC750X, with a larger windshield it might be a good option. But no hard bags. Honda, are you listening? How about a set of integrated bags?

Honda does make bags for the NC 750, you just have to buy them separately

here's my buddy Jim's blue 2019 with Honda bags

 

[rwthomas1]

Honda does make bags for the NC 750, you just have to buy them separately

here's my buddy Jim's blue 2019 with Honda bags

Thats actually not too bad. Size of the bags? Full face helmet fit? I don't put my helmet in the bags but its a useful unit of measure... Thanks

 

[dduelin]

Maybe I'm the anomaly, wouldn't be the first time... 99% of my riding is commuting, 84 mile round trip, any day weather permits. The ST1100 is great at that mission, and though I'm an advocate of this bike and older machines, I also understand reality. Most don't want to deal with doing all their own maintenance and sourcing obsolete and used parts to keep the old girl rolling. There are very few options that check all the boxes for my mission, at any price.

The ST1100 will carry a rolled up Aerostich suit in one of the hard bags. At any given time I have mixture of a lunch cooler, heated gear, gloves, mesh gear, bike cover, etc. etc. I don't see a lot of options to replace the ST for reasonable cost. I actually like the NC750X, with a larger windshield it might be a good option. But no hard bags. Honda, are you listening? How about a set of integrated bags? Yes, I know, a top box. But no, loaded I don't like the effect of weight up high and out in back. Givi's always look like what they are, a second thought. So close but no cigar....

I'll probably end up with a GW bagger once the used prices come down, or a BMW, if I'm still doing this in a few years. Then again, maybe not. A friend just scored a really, really nice '96 ST1100 with 48K on it. Popped a coolant hose under the carbs, and the owner didn't want to deal with it. $200 on Craigslist.....

There are a multitude of hard bags available that fit NC700/750X racks from Givi, Shad, SW Moth, etc if that is a real objection. None of them look as old fashioned as the ones on the ST1100 however, I do grant you that. Few bikes are anymore, that bike was designed over 30 years ago. Honda accessory hard bags are small but are integrated into the styling. With a top box they are large enough for me to carry what I need for camping trips. When the bags are off the mounts are unobtrusive. The NC's storage compartment where the gas tank would be is large enough to carry heated gear, gloves, bike cover, tools, air compressor, thermos, bottle of whine, etc. 12 years in the market now they can be had for CHEAP, built for the job of commuting, easy on tires, brakes, and deliver the fuel economy of a scooter even at highway speeds. It's no sport tourer however though I've taken one on many trips.

 

[Big_Jim59]

I have come to love the bags on my ST. The wife called me at the gym and sent me to the grocery store. I got all kinds of things and they were stowed quite nicely in my bags. I got home and she was surprised. "I didn't know you were on your bike?" Even the fairing pockets are handy. The best I could do before was soft luggage for longer rides and a tank bag for around town. Soft luggage works as long as you don't have to get to anything too quickly. This is the way I used to travel. It works but the ST is a lot more versatile.

 

[red one]

I pray that when mine bites the dust I will find a worthy replacement. So far the only serious consideration is the FJR 1300. I want dependability to be my main factor in choosing my traveling companion and my 24 year old ST1100 has it spades. These bikes that are dual purpose or trail bikes that bags are attached are a compromise and imho show a weakness in 500 plus miles of fast super slab riding. Again the Honda ST series were in a league of their own.

 

[dduelin]

‘Popped a coolant hose under the carbs, and the owner didn't want to deal with it. $200 on Craigslist.....’

Man, that’s a steal. Well purchased.

Yes if all good. Did it overheat when it popped the hose and then stress or crack the block? There's enough threads in this forum on leaking ST1100 engine blocks to bring up the concern. Still a good parts bike even if the engine is toast.

 

[drrod]

I was wondering how your time on the NC 750X worked out. Was it the DCT like you thought?

It had a conventional gearbox and as much as I was looking forward to riding a bike with a DCT, I am glad for the regular box. The roads we were on were not conducive to learning a new method of handling the gears.

As for luggage capacity......it had the Honda bags and topbox. The storage capacity was HUGE. I carried all I needed in the side cases. Top box was reserved for odds and ends like computer bag, tools, etc. The under tank storage easily held my Schuberth C4 and I could keep other stuff in there like visor wipes, power bank, extra gloves, etc.
More storage than my ST. I didn't try to fit my helmet in the side bags or top case but I am sure it would have fit both.
Overall, quite an good bike for the price.

 

[the Ferret]

Thats actually not too bad. Size of the bags? Full face helmet fit? I don't put my helmet in the bags but its a useful unit of measure... Thanks

I'm not sure of the capacity and Jim doesn't put his helmet in his just jackets, rain gear, clothing on trips etc,

See ddrrod's post directly above this one

Edit..found this they are 29 liter

https://cdn.powersports.honda.com/documentum/MW01/08L76-MGS-A52.pdf

 

[Daboo]

...What the new bikes don't offer is value: price vs performance. Our classic ST offers plenty of fun and utility for far less than the new wannabes. And thanks to great engineering, they are still relatively low cost to maintain when they need it.
... My smiles per mile are pretty cheap, and no electronic GPS, EFI, 13-inch super OLED display or other crap to fail. It just goes.

No offense to Mellow, but the idea of owning a ST1100/ST1300 vs a new BMW RS seems smart to me. The electronics of the new bikes, is like frosting on the cake. What the bike is like to ride down the road is more important to me.

I have to disagree... I feel the RT is the best bike I've ever had so far...

I liked my wings but they got long and heavy in twisties... I liked my STs but they were heavy all the time lol.

Those are personal comments that apply to ME. I've tried several other bikes V-Strom/Super Ten/Tracer 900.. they were all great as sport touring bikes and they all had positive and negative aspects when compared to the others.

Yamaha and Suzuki are the only manufacturers that even have a category called 'sport touring'. The others are sport, tour, street or don't even categorized bikes like Ducati and Moto Guzzi.

I think changes are good, many are safety related like cornering abs, slipper clutches, etc... I'll take all the help I can get.

Bottom line is find the bike that works for you and if not, look for a different one... once you fine a gem stick with it as long as it makes sense to do so FOR YOU.

That "bottom line" comment is really spot on. Ride what works for you.

I do have to chuckle, sort of. I looked at reviews of bikes like we all have done and thought the next bike I get was going to have cornering ABS and cornering traction control. I want all the safety features I can get. Well, when I look back on my accident last June, I don't think I touched the brakes at all, and traction wasn't a factor.

Yep, the market has changed. So what? I will not ever own an "adventure bike". They are fugly, period. I do not, and will not ever need offroad, or even dirt road ability. Not in my mission profile. Regarding the statements that sport touring bikes don't offer enough performance, that the adventure type bikes do it better. Maybe. But do the adventure bikes offer a 250+ mile fuel tank, really good wind protection and nicely integrated had bags? To my mind, if I have to figure out better wind protection and storage, I've bought the wrong bike. Looks like the other performance bikes mentioned just canyon carving rockets with hard luggage. Sounds like fun, but will my wrists, hips and knees tolerate it for hours?

Consider also the cost of manufacturing. AFAIK motorcycling worldwide is becoming less popular. Emissions regulations are getting tougher. Manufacturing a 4cylinder, shaft drive, full fairing machine with hard bags is going to be a lot more expensive than a 2cylinder, chain drive, half fairing ( or less) with optional hard bags. Settling on one two cylinder engine family that can be used in multiple models, sharing parts, and more importantly, emissions controls, has to be a huge financial driver. Just look at the pricing of the few remaining traditional sport touring machines VS the ADV's. If I had to guess, there is more profit in the ADV's.

Call me a cynic, but markets may be based in demand, but demand can be manufactured. Used to be magazines, now its online, but reviews and reviewers are paid for. Social media is sponsored. The manufacturers are happy to sell something with a higher margin. And then there is the "look", the "lifestyle". Take jeeps for example, I see them everyday with offroad tires, jacks, winches, etc. the large percentage of them will never see a dirt road.

I'm alright with being a dinosaur. I'll soldier on with used machines as long as I want to ride.

Some of the adventure bikes are fugly. I totally agree. It's a personal feeling only, but I could never own a Tracer. Only its mother could love the looks of that bike.

I'm surprised with my BMW F900 XR for range. It all depends on the fuel mileage I'm getting at the time. It can vary a lot depending on speeds and head winds. But I routinely see my range up in the 240+ mile area. I'm short, so what works for me, won't work nearly as well for a much taller rider. But I fit on that XR really well. Like the F800GT before it, it seems the fairing couldn't possibly protect you, yet it does. Put your hand down by your knee and it is in calm air. Move it out an inch or more, and you're in the full blast of the wind. One of the things I've liked about the two BMWs I've owned is how effortless they are to ride. At the end of a 10 or more hour day, I don't feel like I need to find a bed to flop in.

I used to avidly read each of the reviews on the big sport-touring bikes. I could only dream at the time, but the idea really appealed to me to own one. Then I found that F800GT. It did everything I could dream of in a sport-touring bike, but weighed as much as the Burgman 400 scooter I'd had before. I didn't have to worry about where I parked, so I could get out. It was light enough to back up while sitting on it. And so I skipped the big sport-touring bike ownership entirely.

"Call me a cynic, but markets may be based in demand, but demand can be manufactured. Used to be magazines, now its online, but reviews and reviewers are paid for. "
I've noticed that. I'm focused on the middle-weight segment, where it seems the only bike that can be mentioned is the Yamaha Tracer. Ummm...what happened to the Ducati, the Suzuki, Kawasaki and BMW offerings? If you look for it, you can find reviews that say the BMW F900 XR is "better" than the Yamaha Tracer...but the BMW is never mentioned. Nor is the Multistrada V2. Or the Honda NT1100. It makes me wonder how much kickback Yamaha pays for the mentions.


Change and gadgets are not always good. I think the reason I went off the road was I was looking down at my wonderful state-of-the-art TFT display. The second screen will show you your lean angles and I'd just been through some fast twisties. If the gadget wasn't there, I'd have never taken my eyes off the road. But it was there, and it required more time to find what I was looking for than was safe...and I went off the road. Change is not always an improvement.

Chris

 

[ddemair]

The title of this thread go me to wondering...

How many "classic sport-touring" motorcycles were there ever? The 2 Honda ST's, the FJR and the BMW R1200. I might be missing some outliers.

I don't think Harley ever made one, nor Suzuki and I think of the Concours as a touring bike.

So, was there ever much demand for this category?

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

The title of this thread go me to wondering...

How many "classic sport-touring" motorcycles were there ever? The 2 Honda ST's, the FJR and the BMW R1200. I might be missing some outliers.

I don't think Harley ever made one, nor Suzuki and I think of the Concours as a touring bike.

So, was there ever much demand for this category?

It may depend on how narrow the phrase is used, Honda VFR, and the STs. Kawasaki had two concours', Triumph was the Trophy and Sprint, Ducati had two also I think, Yamaha FJR for like 40 years, Suzuki had at least the GSX1250FA, BMW of course the RT, maybe the RS. Not sure of the current lineups here and abroad, and of course how one defines it.

 

[Daboo]

The title of this thread go me to wondering...

How many "classic sport-touring" motorcycles were there ever? The 2 Honda ST's, the FJR and the BMW R1200. I might be missing some outliers.

I don't think Harley ever made one, nor Suzuki and I think of the Concours as a touring bike.

So, was there ever much demand for this category?

Kawasaki Concours C10 and C14. Honda NT700V BMW R80? and R100




Chris

 

[Raia]

I have come to love the bags on my ST. The wife called me at the gym and sent me to the grocery store. I got all kinds of things and they were stowed quite nicely in my bags. I got home and she was surprised. "I didn't know you were on your bike?" Even the fairing pockets are handy. The best I could do before was soft luggage for longer rides and a tank bag for around town. Soft luggage works as long as you don't have to get to anything too quickly. This is the way I used to travel. It works but the ST is a lot more versatile.

The best motorcycle for grocery shopping is a PC 800 many trips to the store with one.

 

[dduelin]

It may depend on how narrow the phrase is used, Honda VFR, and the STs. Kawasaki had two concours', Triumph was the Trophy and Sprint, Ducati had two also I think, Yamaha FJR for like 40 years, Suzuki had at least the GSX1250FA, BMW of course the RT, maybe the RS. Not sure of the current lineups here and abroad, and of course how one defines it.

Add Aprila Futura and Moto Guzzi Norge. The original sport tourer was the 1977 BMW R100RS. The RT came along two years later.

I agree about how defined the genre is depends on the definer. In the UK the ST1300 is a heavy tourer, the BMW RT series a light tourer, the Goldwing a QE2.