How to modify H4 led to reduce glare ST1300

Nice work on these lights. RaYzerman just posted information on the FJRforum, so this might get even more attention.

The Philips H4 LED is a spectacularly engineered light, although it is rated at 1000/1500 LM the pattern should be very tight. The price is out of sight, but XenonDepot is running a 20% Christmas discount (XMAS20) that gets a pair down to $215. Still pretty rich for my blood.

The Philips is 23 watts, and I understand the G6 is 18 watts. Shouldn't this translate to less lumens?
 
No not necessarily, more watts does not mean more light. LED efficiency has greatly improved. The smaller emitters may not be as efficient as the larger one. It would be best if someone could compare the two lights with a light meter.

I have been using LED's in all my vehicles for the past year+ Just the other day I was asked to drive someone else's car which had halogen lights. Oh my that was awful. I can see farther with my LED low beams than I could with the halogen high beams...

As to the rubber boot question re-read my very first post on this thread. My rubber boot has been through so many different led bulbs this past year that they are thrashed. I am running with out them. but on the new G6 led bulb the ring comes off and you mount it first. then put on the boot (which will have to be trimmed) then you should be able to mount the light. My current boot has a hole that will now fit over the light. At the power level these lights run at they need the air flow of the fan. If you completely cover the heat sink so there is no air flow you will significantly reduce the life and output of the led.
 
I just read about this thread over at the FJR Forum. Thanks for posting it RaYzerman! And thank you for the great work on this, spiderman302! I have just sent Cindy an email. I'm looking forward to ordering a set of these to try out. :) The Alibaba site claims the bulbs are 100% waterproof so the boots should not be necessary. I'll see if I can mount them with the boots first when the bulbs arrive.
 
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Ok do not hold my feet to the fire over these numbers. I am not using a calibrated instrument. These numbers show that these lights are very similar.

when I measured the original G3 3800 lumen led this is what I got.
The center bar is about 100 fc. light 6 inches above cutoff is 4 fc. The high bean is an awesome 220 fc.

The new G6 led bulb measures from the same spot.
The center bar is about 130 fc. light 6 inches above cutoff is 5 fc. The high bean is an awesome 250 fc.

just remember that 0.010 of a difference in the focus point could make those numbers be reversed. Since it is an average of one measurement I would call it a tie.

I was mistaken, the focus in the H4 system is not at the mid point but rather closer to the high beam filament. This explains why the high beam is brighter and has more punch than the low beam.

Since the original G3 had all four leds lit up on high beam (7 watts per led) there was more light on the sides of the road. Some think that this hinders ones ability to see farther down the road.
The new G6 turns off the low beam leds and puts more power into the high beam leds (9 watts per led) there is less glare from the sides of the road and more light down road. Now I know there are arguments either way. I have asked the OEM to rewire the power module to give us both options but you may have to wait a while. In the mean time I am enjoying the G6 led. I even went off my beaten path tonight to find some darker roads. I think the wait is over...
 
spiderman302 said:
I got the lights and they work very well. I will post some pictures later when I get time...... stay tuned.

Oh one small detail I forgot to mention..

Look carefully at a H4 halogen bulb from the top down and you will find that there is a slight 15 degree twist in its mounting. This makes the shield lower on the driver side of the bulb and higher on the passenger side. This will create the up tilt on the right side of the road. The original 3800 lumen H4 does not have this twist since it had no shield so it will give a flat beam in the ST.

However, if you look at a DRZ headlight, the mounting slots are offset by 15 degrees to make the H4 halogen a flat beam. If you put the shielded 3800 LED into the DRZ housing you are now twisted 15 degrees in the WRONG direction! (or 30 degrees from where is should be.) Fortunately the way the 3800 gets mounted you can twist it back to being straight up and down.
There are more that might have this problem. But if you live in a country where they drive on the other side of the road you are good to go...

Or just take off the plate (Phillips head screws) and drill/slot the two small holes 15 degrees offset from the original to make it flat and/or 30 degrees to get the up tilt...

but one of the new lights added the twist so it will be a plug and play option. Just mounted it up.
Click to expand...


Spiderman302 - I'm left a bit confused, regarding this 15 degree twist issue. If I have the American version of the ST1300, and ride it in America AND I contact Cindy in China for these new G6 bulbs - will I have to modify them before they will work correctly, by changing their twist angle and/or removing the tabs to match mounting? At some points in this thread, it reads as though the G6 is 100% plug and play, but at other points it is less clear to me.

Thanks for your reply, and thanks especially for all the research and testing you've put into this effort!
 
Sorry about that...

Plug and play regarding the Shield. Yes I did have to cut off the two lower tabs to put it in the Honda. But wait, I just asked that question yesterday to Cindy and she sent me a picture of some adapter rings that they have for their HID's. I said it was the second one in the bag but I need it to mount to the G6 so I am waiting on a reply..

Because the G6 has the same "twist" as the halogen H4. It will work like the H4 and you do not have to do anything.

If you bought the original G3 bulb that had no twist and you did my Shield modification then you may end up with the 15 degree flare on the wrong (left) side of the road. Slotting the screw holes one could flatten out the beam. This error can be hand twisted out and is why I missed it in my earlier tests...

Remember that the H4 Halogen only blocks 165 degrees of light. So if it is set flat then there should be a 7.5 degree up tilt on both sides. But with the external shields on the G6 you can fine tune them flat or add more side flare if you want.

A closer look at the ST1300 mounting shows that the H4 is rotated so that the beam should be flat. I noticed that the driver side shield on the right lamp was low in the back and that is what gave the right side up tilt. (my mistake) I tweaked it back up and now the beam is nice and flat. So if you get this light check the shield alignment. Again it is nice that you can tune it to your liking...

The more you know the better...

shieldG6.jpg
 
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You might have noticed that back in post 45 there was a photograph of another light on the bottom. I had set it aside since there were issues with it. It did have a good cut off but it had no fan. Not having a fan at this power level is a bad thing. Today I set it up in the lab with thermal couples and let it run. Initial power was 20 watts but after 15 minutes the power dropped to 12 watts. There is a protection circuit that will reduce power if the system gets too hot. The LED emitter quickly got up to 180 C. Max junction temp allowed is 150 C. I removed a glass cover to get the thermal couple on the led. The back of the heat sink/power module was 80 C.

I am also concerned about the new Phillips bulb since it too does not have a fan.

In one of my experiments with the 3800 led I made a shield out a small piece of aluminum tubing. The ring created a nice reflector oven that toasted the led. That is why my shield ended up being open to air flow within the reflector. Any cover that restricts air close to the LED is a bad thing. Yes it will work for a while but your nice yellow phosphor will start turning brown and the light output will be reduced. Covering up the fan is also a bad thing. These things need air flow if you want them to survive.

The G6 has a fan and the shield does not restrict the air very close to the LED. The others may have issues that will take time to find out...
I measured both the g6 and the 3800 with my shield and the LEDs only got to 110 C. that is only 40 C margin in a lab that is at 25 C.
 

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spiderman302 said:
Yes it will work for a while but your nice yellow phosphor will start turning brown and the light output will be reduced.
Click to expand...

It is hard to tell from your pic, but is the LED chip burning or is the brown in the 'lens' that is cast over the LED. Sure, the result will be the same (diminished light output) but might a glass lens cure the problem until the chip burns up? And, do the chips 'burn up' or do they just suddenly fail permanently when they hit a certain temp?
 
Oh, I was trying to keep it simple. There are multi modes of failure. Yes the white led is just a plastic fluorescent light. In this case (short term) the lens got smoked. long term, the phosphor will decay (turn brown). What you will not see is that the (blue) led underneath is a multi cell, multi story structure that will fall apart (delaminate). There is more. Yes, it will die if it gets too hot. If you keep it cool it will last a long time....
 
The G6 H4 may not be the do all solution for everybody. The G6 has a shield that will create a DOT compliant cut off that will enable the user to safely use it on road with traffic. No glare to on coming traffic and the rider can see further down the road.

If you are looking for an off road light for a non plated bike the original unshielded H4 G3 3800 led might be better suited but it does have glare and should NOT be used on road. For off road use only!

I have over 17,000 miles over the past year on my shielded H4 G3 prototype and it is still going strong. It works so well I no longer turn on any of my auxiliary lights that I had used with the halogens. I am now using the H4 G6, it works as well as my prototype. I have done all the homework. If you are looking for a DOT cut off light the H4 G6 is it, look no further. The magic is in the shield.

Phillips thought they were going to be first but now they are late to the party.
 
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I made a comment in another post about LED lights that I noticed that the bulbs were not level when I installed them. There was about a 10-15 degree twist to the left as seen from the front of the bike. I filed the center tab to correct this. Now I'm wondering if this was a mistake.

1f4e60d8020d7ec58a874a28b1e337fc.jpg
 
Yes it turns out the that the H4 halogen bulb has a 15 degree twist for automotive applications to create a 15 degree up tilt on the right side of the road. But it looks like all motorcycles have the 15 degree twist removed so that the beam is "flat". I mention this back in post 46. also look at the bottom photo on post 67. or just look at your old H4 halogen bulb..
 
Yes, The bulb needs to be level when mounted. You know if you got it right if the beam is flat. Might be easier to slot the small screw holes and leave the tab alone.
 
The G6 is a little longer. There is more room where the spring clip is and the heat sink is smooth so it does not get stuck in the spring like the G3 does. The smooth section will make a better seal with the dust cap to keep dust/water/mud out of the light but still keep the fan out where it can do its job. It is very easy to mount it into the ST1300 and it also fits nicely in my DRZ boot and housing. The ST has no boot. Unfortunately all my boots had been cut up to fit other lights. Time for new boots for my lights!

The ring can be removed from the light and mounted to the housing. Then you can put on the boot, then you can mount the light through the boot.


G6_mountingST_drz.jpg
 
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I just ordered six more sets one for my Jeep and the others for a bunch of [Search and Rescue team] DR350's.... [ now you know why I needed DOT compliance]
 
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Spiderman302 - after you cut the tabs off, so they fit the ST1300, are you then using an adapter ring - or does what's left of the mounting plate keep the bulb exactly where it needs to be in the housing without one?
 
Hey everyone - look at this image of the "new" version of the bulb that Cindy sent to me. The LEDs are a completely different design/shape! I now wonder if this means testing must begin all over again?
G6 2BH4 (2).jpg
 
Take some pictures of the Hi and Low beam pattern on a wall (~20 feet) and post it so we can see. When I get my new sets I will compare them with the old. If you can measure the power (or volts and amps).

no adapter ring necessary the top tab will put it into position with a little play. H4 tab is smaller than the Honda tab. Once in place , with the bulb installed I fine tune it level by twisting on the fan cover. Easy to do from the front of the bike reaching under by the forks.
 
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