Grok answers which is better, the ST1100 or ST1300

ST1100Y said:
Huh?! :unsure:
Is that a US-spec/emission control related issue?

Our Grossglockner Alpine Pass heads up to 2571m/8435ft and I had no issues there (quite a number of beemers stall and are reluctant to fire again though...)

Rode the Col de la Bonette in France which goes to 2715m/8907ft and again, lower idle, but otherwise no issues...

So please elighten me why the US spec (rumored to even have "altitude control") shouldn't perform at such altitudes?
Shouldn't your smaller jets not even help to overcome enriched mixture at altitude?
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US spec variation is not only on the bike, it is also on what we call "altitude".

The peak formerly known as Mount Evans and Pikes Peak culminate at about 4200 m, close to 200 mb less atmospheric pressure than on the "Big Clock"

Some of the more common CO passes still go up to 3600 m, still 100 mb less than on the Clock.
 
Al st1100 said:
and they don't run well in hi altitudes
ST1100Y said:
So please elighten me why the US spec (rumored to even have "altitude control") shouldn't perform at such altitudes?
Shouldn't your smaller jets not even help to overcome enriched mixture at altitude?
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Click to expand...
My 1100's have had no problem that I noticed at altitude. 11000 ft+, Pikes Peak, Rocky Mt NP, Beartooth Hwy 8000ft+
 
I owned an 93 1100 for 20 years, upgraded the suspension, added a Bill Mayer seat and a HID headlight and such. With all that, due to work situations I only did long day rides with one 5 day Sedona, Flagstaff, Grand Canyon trip with the Missus thrown in. I live in San Diego by the way. Eight years ago I bit the bullet and bought a 2008 1300. I held on to the 1100 for almost 8 months before letting it go. I was afraid that if I decided I did not like the 1300 I would have to start over tailoring an 1100 to my tastes.

According to my Clymer manual Honda Germany did the original 1100 design, something to compete with the long haul, high speed BMW’s on the autobahn. More Tourer than Sport. When the redesign was done Honda Japan took over. More horsepower, better brakes, lower gearing, split tank, slightly shorter wheelbase. More Sport than Tourer. The result, to my fanny in the seat is: happy with the extra ponies and torque, constantly trying to shift into a 6th gear that is never there, top heavy when full of gas, and obvious the shorter wheelbase affected the riders seat area. And mostly hate the orange/black TFT screen. But I do love the brakes, electric windshield, EFI and looks.

Since I retired I have taken the 1300 from So Cal to New England and back twice. Each trip was 80% + US Highways, scenic highways and secondary roads, including what I call moonshiner roads near my nieces house in KY that has become my Pony Express stop on at least one leg of the trip. As I am not by any means taking a direct route each trip is 6,000-7,400 miles. I have learned to live with the differences but wish that the engine turned about 500 less rpm at an indicated 80mph when inevitable Interstate stretches occur. My perfect ST is the original 1100 wheelbase, gearing and all under seat tank with the styling, horsepower, windscreen and brakes of the 1300. And the 1300 fuel injection meant no power loss over 10,000’ + passes in the Rockies. Just a touch of throttle abruptness though.

As I age I am looking for something at least 100# lighter. I ride 2 wheels only solo so do not have to consider passenger accommodations and have the luggage all to my self. The Triumph Sport 800 and Honda NT100 will both be getting a look.
 
Snowmanwest said:
And the 1300 fuel injection meant no power loss over 10,000’ + passes in the Rockies.....
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How? Did you install a turbo to compensate for the lower intake pressure at altitude?

Even the gasoline octane reflects the expected lower cylinder pressure, 91 in CO vs 93 in Tx. Lower pressure, lower power. No way around it.
 
DeanR said:
My 1100's have had no problem that I noticed at altitude. 11000 ft+, Pikes Peak, Rocky Mt NP, Beartooth Hwy 8000ft+
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ST1100Y said:
Huh?! :unsure:
Is that a US-spec/emission control related issue?

Our Grossglockner Alpine Pass heads up to 2571m/8435ft and I had no issues there (quite a number of beemers stall and are reluctant to fire again though...)

Rode the Col de la Bonette in France which goes to 2715m/8907ft and again, lower idle, but otherwise no issues...

So please elighten me why the US spec (rumored to even have "altitude control") shouldn't perform at such altitudes?
Shouldn't your smaller jets not even help to overcome enriched mixture at altitude?
Click to expand...

Bogged down in high altitude? | ST1100 Related

93' 1100, Beautiful bike. 26k miles, stock. I bought it a month ago. Left Las Vegas and shot up to Mt. Charleston with the wife today. Nice ride until I hit 8400 feet, bogged down and felt like it was going nowhere at 8400 feet. Turned around and went back down to the heat of Vegas. Then...
www.st-owners.com www.st-owners.com
I had my carbs adjusted a bit richer because they are factory set lean. I had issues over 8-9000 ft as others. There in honda service manual somewhere they recomend adjusting mixture screws in about a full turn for prolong hi altitude riding. Mine was a dog at those altitudes. Others had issues see https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/bogged-down-in-high-altitude.138437/
 
If you want lack of power at altitude,try a 500 Gl500i 81 Silverwing interstate, the summit between Kelowna and Merritt BC is 5800 ft bike could only make 90 km or 55 mph up hill, speed limit is 120 kms . Not a problem with the St
 
HUM... let's see, how many timing belts have I changed on my five ST1300s over the 400,000 miles, I've put on them since November 2005?

None, WHY? Because they don't have TIMING BELTS!

How many times have I had to remove my carburetors, to clean them or rebuild them, on my ST1300s?

None, WHY? ST1300 are fuel injected and I have had NO issues with any of the Throttle bodies.

Water pumps...they both have them and they get replaced.

Alternators... recommended that pre 1996 ST1100 get the 40amp transplant.

It took me a few years and about 50,000 miles on my ST1300s to dial them in to suit me for long rides, although I did lots of long rides before that.

I had that 1996 ST1100 in my garage for 6 months, (and with prior experience with V45 & V65 Sabres) I wasn't about to tear into those carbs!

Yet, I haven't had too many issues removing throttle bodies from ST1300s. At least I don't have to worry about rebuilding those throttle bodies all the time!

And, here I am restoring yet another ST1300 (that someone else destroyed the engine in, by running it out of oil). At least, this one wasn't wrecked, as three of mine were before I bought them . ;)
 
Our Grossglockner Alpine Pass heads up to 2571m/8435ft and I had no issues there (quite a number of beemers stall and are reluctant to fire again though...)

Rode the Col de la Bonette in France which goes to 2715m/8907ft and again, lower idle, but otherwise no issues...
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I would not expect any noticeable power loss at those elevations anyway. I have owned a Canadian market 1999 and a 2000 ST1100 from new, both of which I believe those were jetted the same as the US models. In both cases power loss was never an issue below 10, 000 feet / 3,000m.
 
SupraSabre said:
HUM... let's see, how many timing belts have I changed on my five ST1300s over the 400,000 miles, I've put on them since November 2005?

None, WHY? Because they don't have TIMING BELTS!

How many times have I had to remove my carburetors, to clean them or rebuild them, on my ST1300s?
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How many times have I had to remove my carbs and clean them in 1/2 million miles between 4 ST1100s?
ZERO - Not an issue if you ride them regular and don't tinker with them! :biggrin:

I did have to do that to the one that I bought that had been sitting for a few years.
But if you ride the carbs seem to work pretty well.
And from what I've heard, I believe I'll take a ST1100 waterpump replacement over a ST1300 one (which you can change the timing belt while you are in there). ;)
 
Uncle Phil said:
How many times have I had to remove my carbs and clean them in 1/2 million miles between 4 ST1100s?
ZERO - Not an issue if you ride them regular and don't tinker with them! :biggrin:

I did have to do that to the one that I bought that had been sitting for a few years.
But if you ride the carbs seem to work pretty well.
And from what I've heard, I believe I'll take a ST1100 waterpump replacement over a ST1300 one (which you can change the timing belt while you are in there). ;)
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I've replaced four water pumps on the ST1300s (05, both 04s and the 10), really not that bad, once you do one. And while you're in there, check the clutch wear.

Well, and that's the issue with most bikes, people just don't ride them enough! ;)

I don't feel like I've gotten my money's worth out of a bike, until I've gotten at least 50K miles on them, myself.

There are a number on the forum that can claim that kind of mileage, but how many?

I'll be sticking to my ST1300s, thank you!

:hat3: :hat3: :hat3: :hat3: :hat3:
 
MidLife said:
Loss at Glockner elevations will be about 25% and 30% by the time you reach 10'000 ft. No dyno required to notice.
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I have never ridden there but I can't imagine that 10,000' there has a significantly different effect on an 1100 than 10,000' any where else so I can only offer the same response- Where I have ridden my 1100's higher elevations were not an issue below 10,000'.

On my V-Twin 1100 at the same elevations it was a completely different story. On long uphill grades at similar elevations I would have to down-shift a gear.
 
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Larry Fine said:
Any chance you have the mileages?
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2005 - 116,000
2004#1 - 68,000
2004#2 - No idea, since it didn't come with a speedometer
2010 - I replaced the water pump, because the clutch went out. And since that bike didn't come with a speedometer either...don't know I had put about 64,000 miles on it.

Because I was using the 2004#2 & the 2010 for most of my commuting, after I got rid of the 2005, those were pretty hard miles due to the traffic patterns I had to put up with.
 
Al st1100 said:
I had my carbs adjusted a bit richer...
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Yeah, that'll do it though...
I strictly stay on the 2 1/8th turns (AR version) given in the shop manual... best of both worlds so far...

Sure, any of today's EFI sensoric can correct the mixture at altitude, but still can't add oxygen to the less dense air... so also those will start to snort at some point...

My issues with the 1300 are various and distinctive... but such debates always end in religious crusades so I'll mute... ;)

I only hung on the statement "the 1100 won't work at altitude"... debunked... ;)
 
SupraSabre said:
I've replaced four water pumps on the ST1300s (05, both 04s and the 10), really not that bad, once you do one. And while you're in there, check the clutch wear.

Well, and that's the issue with most bikes, people just don't ride them enough! ;)

I don't feel like I've gotten my money's worth out of a bike, until I've gotten at least 50K miles on them, myself.

There are a number on the forum that can claim that kind of mileage, but how many?

I'll be sticking to my ST1300s, thank you!

:hat3: :hat3: :hat3: :hat3: :hat3:
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You are 2 water pumps up on me ... one replaced (140,000 miles) and one cratered (130,000 miles) so I just replaced the engine. ;)
Riding them frequently is the key - as I often tell Black Pearl's captain - 'There is them that talk, and then there's them that ride - and you ride!':oilleak:
I may have had the location of the ST1300 water pump confused with the location of alternator - those sort of things happen as you get older. :biggrin:
Based on 50K miles as 'money's worth', I should be getting at least 3 refund or a bonus checks sometime soon ... :think1:
And I reckon I will be sticking to my ST1100s, thank you!

:hat1::hat1::hat1::hat1::hat1::hat1:
 
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