Factory air filters versus aftermarket air filters ST 1300.

[Igofar]

Just like tires and oil filters, sometimes OEM specifications are completely different from the exact aftermarket fitment.
A good example, or explanation would be fortnines video on how mfrs trick the public on motorcycle tires etc.
I’ve found oil filters, made by champion labs, OEM filters completely different than champion lab filters with fitment (aftermarket) for the same make and model.
Usually any product made “to fit” a vehicle will be found to have taken short cuts to make a profit margin.
I've found that the Hiflow filters that come OEM on several scooters, to be pretty good quality, very neatly sealed, and evenly spaced pleats on the media, however, the Hiflow filters you pick up at the local cycle gear, or bike shops, that "replace the OEM model" for your vehicle, poorly thrown together, glue stuck on the pleats, and in the body, and one half of the media crushed, or pushed together.
Obviously, someone was cutting corners with the build to cost spec's etc.

 

[RobbieAG]

EMGO or HIFLOWFILTO paper replacement filters should work as well as the OEM filters, with the exception that the screen and quality may not be as good as factory ones.
Being that the ST’s run pretty lean from the factory, I would stay away from the K&N filters, due to lean issues and poor fitment.
K&N also made two different sizes without indicating it for the ST’s, some fit, some don’t.

You may try hiflow, but you won’t use K&N ?
Did you miss the comment that hiflow makes K&N filters?

Is Hiflow the same as HIFLOWFILTO? Sounds like the quality is similar to EMGO which I thought were fine so I'm willing to give them a try. I'm okay with aftermarket OEM style filters if they're good quality. K & N filters are an entirely different thing needing to be cleaned and treated with oil, supposedly passing more air. I don't think it's that relevant that it may be made by Hiflo/HIFLOWFILTO. They're a completely different design with different airflow etc.

 

[Igofar]

Is Hiflow the same as HIFLOWFILTO? Sounds like the quality is similar to EMGO which I thought were fine so I'm willing to give them a try. I'm okay with aftermarket OEM style filters if they're good quality. K & N filters are an entirely different thing needing to be cleaned and treated with oil, supposedly passing more air. I don't think it's that relevant that it may be made by Hiflo/HIFLOWFILTO. They're a completely different design with different airflow etc.

Yes. Hiflowfiltro makes many OEM filters, both OIL and AIR for many factory vehicles.
While you should not have any issues using their AIR filters, unless your in an area with a lot of rodents, as our packrats can chew through just about all of the aftermarket air filters, but can't chew through the heavy mesh screen Honda uses on their air filters etc.
Oil filters, I would not trust a K&N in any vehicle, nor would I use a replacement/fitment Hiflowfiltro in any of my bikes, just my choice.

 

[Kevcules]

Below is a picture of a slightly used HifloFiltro air filter. It's looks pretty well made to me.
I removed this one as I thought I would replace it as I had taken the air box apart for another job. I changed it because I had a new one ready but it looks so good, I might just hang onto it.
My ST1300 seems to love it too.

 

[cruzer1800]

OK, guess I am late to the party but what is the problem with K&N filters? I read they had a bad batch of oil filters (years?) ago but air filters too? Just curious if someone can point me to post about it. I searched but to no avail... thank you!

 

[Igofar]

OK, guess I am late to the party but what is the problem with K&N filters? I read they had a bad batch of oil filters (years?) ago but air filters too? Just curious if someone can point me to post about it. I searched but to no avail... thank you!

ST’s run pretty lean from the factory, I would stay away from the K&N filters, due to lean issues and poor fitment.
K&N also made two different sizes without indicating it for the ST’s, some fit, some don’t.

 

[Igofar]

Below is a picture of a slightly used HifloFiltro air filter. It's looks pretty well made to me.
I removed this one as I thought I would replace it as I had taken the air box apart for another job. I changed it because I had a new one ready but it looks so good, I might just hang onto it.
My ST1300 seems to love it too.

It’s not a really bad replacement, it’s just the OEM one has much better quality and higher standards.
The screen is fit and attached better, as well as being better material, that seems to keep rodents out better, and the sealing foam on the Honda one is thick and dense, and holds oil better, unlike the one in your picture is a lesser grade, common foam, more for appearance than fit and sealing etc.
They will both work.
Some folks just prefer higher standards.

 

[Kevcules]

[QUOTE="cruzer1800, post: 2391436, member: 55284"
OK, guess I am late to the party but what is the problem with K&N filters? I read they had a bad batch of oil filters (years?) ago but air filters too? Just curious if someone can point me to post about it. I searched but to no avail... thank you!
[/QUOTE]

The only issue I've heard about using K&N air filters was that when they are oiled too much, they can cause the downstream sensors to mess up. I've used them in cars, trucks and other machines for years though without issue. My 06 Corolla didn't skip a beat or burn a drop of oil by having that filter installed even after 295,000 kms. I guess I didn't tell her I did that to her.
I'll take the advice here and stay away from their oil filters though.

 

[STPaulK]

Make sure you slide the upper tank all the way back, and carefully tip it so you hopefully don't break the hose between the upper and lower tanks. It's an odd hose that is bigger on one end and if you break it you'll have fuel all over the place (if the upper tank still has fuel in it) and you'll have to buy a new hose from mother Honda.

I recommend taking the opportunity to replace that hose. I had one start leaking in the dead of winter so now I change mine out anytime the tank is tipped. The hose isn't all that spendy.

 

[Chris09]

Honda Centre Burnaby gave me a HIFLOFILTRO oil filter same as the above pic.

 

[Duporth]

I have used a HiFlo filter but have stuck to OEMs since. I always had a concern about the top and bottom sealing fit in the air box with the HiFlo or other after market filters. The seal is critical.
This is not to say the HiFlo or any particular after market filter seals poorly but by using an OEM I assume the filter sealing is as it should and that the ST can breathe in the best way. One less matter to think about
Cheers, D

 

[Oldbikefixr]

The takeaway from Michael's post is that sometimes there is a technical reason for the price difference, and sometimes there is not. The problem is that we don't always know.

e.g.
When I worked at a GM dealership at one point there was a problem with diesel injection pump failures. It was expensive to fix because the entire injection pump had to be removed and sent out to a diesel shop to be rebuilt. It became a big enough problem that GM launched an investigation because the warranty claims were piling up all over North America. The investigation revealed that the injection pump passages were clogged up with debris. As part of the investigation, instructions from GM were to replace the fuel filter and return the old one to GM regardless of which brand it was. The investigation revealed that aftermarket fuel filters were causing the problem. The curious thing is that these aftermarket fuel filters were being made by the same company that made the filters for GM, so this concerned GM.

The end result was that the filters that were being made for GM were being made to GM specifications. The filters that this same company made for the jobber parts market were not. The only difference was that they were using a different epoxy to bond the filter media to itself and to the filter container. They did so because this epoxy was cheaper and had a simpler application and shorter curing time than the epoxy that GM had specified for use. This meant that they could produce more filters more quickly and cheaper. The problem was that this inferior epoxy deteriorated after long exposure to diesel fuel. I guess someone hadn't tested it for long enough before approving it for use. Small pieces of epoxy would brake loose and find their way in to the injection pump and clog it's tiny passages.

After such investigations GM always releases a service bulletin. The bulletin advised against the use of aftermarket filters and explained why. Customers could continue to use them of course, but GM would no longer warranty any injection pump failure that was a result of clogged passages on a vehicle that had a jobber fuel filter.

There is not much of a danger in using a jobber air filter of course. Just pointing out that we don't always know the reason for the price difference. Sometimes the difference is not justified, sometimes the aftermarket part is just as good or better, but sometimes the price difference for OEM is justified. The real problem is knowing which is which.

During my 'life' as a reliability engineer in the aviation business this was one of the most frequent causes of unscheduled repairs. Usually due to someone in the purchasing department insisting on an unreasonable price reduction from a component manufacturer, or changing suppliers altogether without bothering with the necessary engineering involvement. Basically unapproved design changes resulted....and were completely invisible to our inspection departments....until an engineering investigation resulted, usually due to customer complaints or worse. Some people are the weakest link in any technical system.
The best laid plans of mice and men.....

 

[Upt' North]

I do understand why someone/anyone would want to save a £ or two. HiFlo oil filters are a good example of a trustworthy product.
But why then do folk change them twice as often?
The service schedule as set out by HoYamSuAki is there for a reason, no?
There seems little logic to actively source cheaper parts and then change them more often, or am I missing something. How many times have we read here that folks will save a $ on a gallon of oil but then change it at 4000 miles just in case.
Buy what you like fellas, fit what you like, but the reason there's an oil/filter/brakes thread has a lot to do with just trying that bargain.
And bargains aren't always what they appear.
Upt'North.

 

[Igofar]

Honda Centre Burnaby gave me a HIFLOFILTRO oil filter same as the above pic.

Of course they did, for profit for them.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Honda Centre Burnaby gave me a HIFLOFILTRO oil filter same as the above pic.

Which is fine if they made it clear that that is what they were selling you, and you were willing to accept that. If they represented it as being the Honda filter, or if you asked for the Honda filter and they didn't let you know that it wasn't, you should be going back to see them.

 

[Chris09]

I just asked for a filter, expected the red label and honda part number, maybe that's all they had, but he's a guy that's come up in conversation over the years with a number of people, big red honda sign on the store, good enough for him, good enough for me.

 

[Upt' North]

I just asked for a filter, expected the red label and honda part number, maybe that's all they had, but he's a guy that's come up in conversation over the years with a number of people, big red honda sign on the store, good enough for him, good enough for me.

As long as it was sold at HiFlo prices I think you've got a sensible dealer.
Upt'North.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

I do understand why someone/anyone would want to save a £ or two. HiFlo oil filters are a good example of a trustworthy product.
But why then do folk change them twice as often?
The service schedule as set out by HoYamSuAki is there for a reason, no?
There seems little logic to actively source cheaper parts and then change them more often, or am I missing something. How many times have we read here that folks will save a $ on a gallon of oil but then change it at 4000 miles just in case.
Buy what you like fellas, fit what you like, but the reason there's an oil/filter/brakes thread has a lot to do with just trying that bargain.
And bargains aren't always what they appear.
Upt'North.

I think the excessively frequent oil changes are a lingering result of our experiences from early 1960's thru the 1980's. Dino oils usually didn't look all that great after 3000 miles or so. Unfiltered bike oil was gray/black much sooner than that on occasion, especially if the bike wasn't ridden regularly. Not all engines were designed, built or abused the same....which also affected oil appearance on the dipstick. It all got better mechanically and along came synthetics. The idea of running the oil 7000 miles or or more still turns on some form of 'genetic caution' among those of us who experienced early engine/oil behaviors.....and passed that 'wisdom' on to our kids.
Wisdom is not species-cumulative, we begin at 0 every time a new one is born. That is also a plus as new ideas are created and accepted faster because of that reboot every generation.
'Flying machines won't be practical for another thousand years' and similar thought processes don't burden us, as a species, forever, as a result.
Just take oil attitudes for what they are, be tolerant, and move on.

 

[Upt' North]

Amen brother.
My personal pet hate is the extended oil change intervals on LL oil in my Beemer. It's still under extended warranty so it returns to them once in a while when the service light of doom appears. I do like to change the LL oil every 12 months which obviously isn't recognised by the service department as the correct change time because it's mileage and not date related.
It's probably not required and my views are probably stuck in the 80's too when yearly service was the norm.
I did manage to convince my head interior that the BeaST would be fine on last years oil for its last European jaunt which took the oil to around 7000 miles of so. Guess what, it was just that, fine and dandy.
Upt'North.

 

[Fawlty]

I also prefer to change the oil in my car every year, in spite of manufacturers quoted extended intervals. I think these intervals are designed for fleet cars more than the private owner that generally keeps the vehicle for a few years.