ECM FAILURE POLL AND DISCUSSION

[CruSTy]

Has anyone tried to use 2008 or later ECM> I think it should work fine but would require the connectors to be re-pinned and upgraded to 33 pin style.

 

[Larry Fine]

Has anyone tried to use 2008 or later ECM> I think it should work fine but would require the connectors to be re-pinned and upgraded to 33 pin style.

IF the only difference is pin-out related. As a test, can an engine from an '07 or earlier be transplanted into an '08 or later bike with no other electrical modifications; i.e., keeping the '08+ ECM?

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

Adding this here. In the wanted section

Wanted - Broken ECM 03-07 ST1300, 01-06 Goldwing, 03-07 Aquatrax | Buy/Sell/Wanted

I am harvesting connector headers from these ECMs to build adapter harnesses. This will convert the existing 03-07 ECM harness to an 08-17 ECM. I will pay shipping. Old ECM Can be bricked or failed I just need intact connector headers.

www.st-owners.com

 

[devro]

2009 St1300a.
Where is the Diagnostic Connector?
And, how does one read the FI Codes?

 

[Andrew Shadow]

2009 St1300a.
Where is the Diagnostic Connector?
And, how does one read the FI Codes?

I replied to you in the other thread- See below;

Fuel Pump Problems, need advise | ST1300 Related

2009 ST 1300a I'm asking for help to make sure I'm going in the right direction before I pull/replace the fuel pump. The fuel pump is not working. Does not momentarily run when the ignition is turned on. I read and used an extensive write-up on how to check the relays, bank angle sensor, ect...

www.st-owners.com

 

[MPR]

reparada

 

[askadolph]

This will be something that is more an more common, already is, as time goes on.

I'll use this thread to:
1 - track what category of bikes seem to have the issue - seems obvious the oldest bikes will have this first but maybe not.
2 - track the symptoms (FI codes) and trouble shooting steps before taking the big step towards a new ECM
3 - Discuss possible workarounds.

Also, no one here is an expert in spite of what they may think and a forum exists to discuss subjects and collaborate on those subjects. Anyone that does not adhere to that level of collaborative respect will be banned from this thread and possibly more.

I'll try to keep this thread updated as we move forward.

Symptoms:
- FI Code 26 - Right Knock Sensor - this is the code most will get and sometimes it is the sensor.
- Other FI codes have also appeared but 26 is the is the common one
- Reduced gas mileage, more heat.

Troubleshooting/Causes:
- HERE is a link for checking and resetting the code
- FI Code 26 - Right Knock Sensor - this is the code most will get and sometimes it is the sensor.
- The Honda 070MZ-MCA0100 ECM, Test Harness currently goes for over $2000 and there's probably other proprietary software you can't get unless you're a dealer
- Some have said the ECM fails due to age, heat, moisture, vibrations, etc... basically external environmental affects.

Solutions/Workarounds:
- Repair or Refurbish options - The ECM is sealed therefore not typically something serviceable.
- Replacement ECMs are currently anywhere from $600 to $1300 new, cheaper on ebay but you don't know the history and impossible to check if it has issues. Also, pre 2008 ECMs are tough to find.
- 2008 and newer ECM Part number - 38770-MCS-R12
- 2002 thru 2007 ECM Part number - 38770-MCS-L01 - Police version (38770-MCS-A31) will have a 120mph speed limiter
- A member noticed: "The only time it flags a light is when I push it over 4000 rpm in high gear. It kicks the timing back as soon as it flags the light, and that brings more heat and poorer mileage. Anything below that rpm in high gear and its fine. I can run it up red line through the rest of the gears, no problem."
- Manufacturers typically have to keep making replacement parts for 10 years after the last model - not sure how stringent that is but could be a big issue in a few more years as parts become more rare.
- It may be impossible for a company to create a replacement ECM or some type of bypass to fool the ECM into thinking all is ok as the market is a small one and the development effort will probably never be met.
- It's also possible the code 26... might be an electrical short and an accurate code, however that short may be what takes out the ECM. The knock sensors are close to the exhaust headers and the wire insulation doesn't last long in those areas, check yours as it may just crumble... perhaps some heat tape in that area will be a preventative maintenance issue?
- Also one possibility is some wire that has nothing to do with the knock sensor corrodes and grounds/shorts out and the knock sensor portion of the ECM is just the weakest path and that kills the ECM so the knock sensor could be a false indication of what is happening.

have 2007 non abs. got code 25. have backup ecm... first changed knock sensor and sub harness.... did not see any visible damage to harness... took a few months to check due to weather..... went for 250 mile ride .....no fi lights.....still have backup ecm.......25000 miles on bike

 

[MPR]

Before spending money you have to make an accurate diagnosis.
I am going to explain step by step to make an accurate diagnosis and not waste money on unnecessary parts.
After suffering the breakdown and having the code 25 or 26, the first thing you have to do is exchange the 2 sensors, if the error code changes you have the broken sensor but if the code does not change you have to move on to the next test.
You have to exchange the cables of the side sensors, if the code changes you have a fault in the electrical installation but if the code remains the same the fault is in the electronic control unit of the motorcycle and then it must be repaired

---

Sugerencias

 

[Andrew Shadow]

reparada

Where did you have it repaired?
What exactly did they do?
i.e. Repair back to factory functionality or disable ability to register code 25/26.

 

[MPR]

Where did you have it repaired?
What exactly did they do?
i.e. Repair back to factory functionality or disable ability to register code 25/26.

No cheating, no code overrides.
I repair it like when it leaves the factory

 

[MidLife]

Where did you have it repaired?
What exactly did they do?
i.e. Repair back to factory functionality or disable ability to register code 25/26.

@MPR posted in this thread earlier last year. He fixes Gold Wings ECUs with the code, he said he managed to purchase the last few available Signal Processing chips for the Knock Sensing Circuit and can replace the failed one on the Wing ECU board.

However, he has no replacement chips for the ST...but claims he can still fix ST ECUs.....but doesn't want to go into what he actually does, unlike others who have tried (and failed) in their attempt to repair the ST ECU.

Not sure how he can revive the retarding on knock sensing when the chip is no longer talking to the CPU and cannot be replaced....and it is not easy to verify the functionality has really been reinstated.

His comment after asking for details....

I'm sorry but I'm not here to teach, I'm just trying to solve the problem.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

No cheating, no code overrides.
I repair it like when it leaves the factory

You previously wrote that there are no parts available to repair this problem on the ST1300 ECM. This statement is what raised my curiosity as to how you fix it without the necessary parts.
If you are not willing to share your knowledge for the benefit of other ST1300 owners suffering from this problem that is your prerogative.

Are you willing to repair ST1300 ECM's for other ST1300 owners?
I do not need this repair but who knows about the future. I ask now on behalf of those who do need it as we are all just trying to find a solution to this problem for the benefit of everyone.

 

[MPR]

Friend, I am a professional and I have invested a large amount of time, effort and money to develop a solution.
Of course I am willing to repair broken units.
If there is anyone affected in Spain who wants to solve their problem, send me their ecu and then comment on the result.
I am also developing a specific website for this problem and to facilitate shipments from anywhere.

 

[MidLife]

Friend, I am a professional and I have invested a large amount of time, effort and money to develop a solution.
Of course I am willing to repair broken units.
If there is anyone affected in Spain who wants to solve their problem, send me their ecu and then comment on the result.
I am also developing a specific website for this problem and to facilitate shipments from anywhere.

Hola Amigo,

This is great news of course.

But all the very capable professionals over the world who have invested in trying to break into the ST1300 ECU over the last quarter century have failed.

It would be interesting to know what breakthrough allowed you to get there, even if you do not go into too many details to safeguard your trade secrets.

And also, how do you validate the repair? Do you have a set up where you can have a knock like input to the sensor and can show how it affects the ignition timing?

Gracias.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Friend, I am a professional and I have invested a large amount of time, effort and money to develop a solution.
Of course I am willing to repair broken units.
If there is anyone affected in Spain who wants to solve their problem, send me their ecu and then comment on the result.
I am also developing a specific website for this problem and to facilitate shipments from anywhere.

Good to know.
When you have that website up and running don't forget to post it on here so we will all be made aware of what service you are offering.

 

[MattSTlouis]

I have an interesting code 26 problem and I fixed it or something.

I bought a 2003 ST1300 about 2 months ago. It was a one owner 27,000 mile bike that looked very well taken care of. The guy was getting older and the daughter and son in law thought it needed an ECU because it ran horribly and would occasionally get a 26 error. So for $900 I was like sure, I'll take it. The battery was gone and a few bolts and screws were missing but nothing major. Got it home and put a battery in it and it started right up and ran OK, but not great. I added some new fuel and it ran decent so I took it on a 60 mile trip. The more I ran it the worse it got and the evil code 26 started showing up. I got it home and sycned the throttle bodies, cleaned the T, replaced the vacuum lines and found some broken grounds under the tank but made no difference. It would idle from 600 to 1300 and bounce back and forth. I grabbed one of the code 26 ECUs from my 2005 that I had laying around and swapped it out. Still ran horrible. Pulled the spark plugs out and they were denso but the correct ones. I replaced them with some 50,000 mile NKGs that I saved in my tool box from another ST. This time it fired right up and ran perfect. Since then I have put 160 mile on it and has ran flawlessly and no CI code(with the code 26 ECU I used from my other bike, that I replaced the wiring harness and ECU on to make the code 26 go away and the 50,000 mile NGKs).

So now I am wondering if the problem was just the wiring harness on the 2005 and I have 2 good ECUs lying around. I think I will swap out the ECU in the 2003 with the other 2 I have and see if they are code free. I might have hit the ST1300 lottery or the magical moto ferries have granted me reprieve after many bikes and lots of wrenching but it looks like I might have an almost mint 2003 for a little under $1100 total invested. It even has the electric windshield upgrade, mcl highway wings and heli risers with a power port and ram ball.