Clutch biting when hot

acaffair

acaffair

Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
41
Location
Scotland
Bike
ST1100
Hi , My 2000 st1100 has a clutch problem that's bugging me?
When cold i get a nice take off from a standing start,works great! then when she is
hot ?? when taking off and releasing the clutch it seems to bite real early and you can
feel it on the rear cush rubbers taking up the clutch snapping on.
I have stripped down the clutch and could find nothing wrong, i fitted a new set of plates
whilst i was at it, and a new basket, but still the same problem re-appears.
Anyone any suggestions - driving me crazy
Sid
PS i have changed the oil twice with two different suppliers just in case that could have been the problem.
 
I thought I would ask since you didn't mention it- did you try flushing and bleeding the hydraulic system? Often cures many a strange symptom.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
I thought I would ask since you didn't mention it- did you try flushing and bleeding the hydraulic system? Often cures many a strange symptom.
Click to expand...

Yep dot 4 first thing i tried???
I'm thinking it might be theslave cylinder piston expanding when hot and sticking?? long shot i know
 
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I would try an overhaul kit that includes the slave cylinder working parts..... then a full flush and bleed.... if that doesn't cure it, I would check that the clutch hose is not expanding when hot and causing insufficient pressure at the business end.... it doesn't need to expand much.... but if soft and feels a little overly flexible when hot, I would replace it.
 
Firstpeke said:
I would try an overhaul kit that includes the slave cylinder working parts..... then a full flush and bleed.... if that doesn't cure it, I would check that the clutch hose is not expanding when hot and causing insufficient pressure at the business end.... it doesn't need to expand much.... but if soft and feels a little overly flexible when hot, I would replace it.
Click to expand...

Hi Thanks

Have a steel braided hose fitted to replace the original one - could be this but! this is a strange one. All of a sudden this problem occurs and it won't go away
 
It does sound very odd, as if the clutch is not fully disengaging..... I would also try stripping and cleaning the master cylinder off the bike, flushing it out completely to clear the ports.... if you can strip it, clean it and degrease it then blow through with an airline this may help....

Wondering if the return port is not clear properly and something is blocking it after first few operations....
 
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God knows Firstpeke
I,ll order a couple of kits for the master and slave cylinder and give that a try,
 
Ok. Stripped clutch again, didn't find anything, but changed back to the old basket and soaked the plates again.
just in case? Stripped the master cylinder and fitted new kit, checked the slave cylinder all good.
Changed the hose for good measure.
Still the Bloody same, perfect when cold and biting felt on the rear cush rubbers felt when hot. Cush rubbers and inserts replaced also

Getting ready with cutting torch.

The only parts not changed are the steel clutch plates but I checked them on a glass and there was no warping , used a feeler guage .

Wondering if it is the drive shaft Damper spring but why when hot?

The tale resumes this week end, perhaps it is the rear drive somewhere and not the clutch, we shall see.
 
Does the clutch grab and make a squawking noise when it is hot? If so what you are experiencing is called clutch chatter. Oil type has everything to do with clutch chatter. It can take quite a while for chattering to stop after changing oils as the oil additives that cause this will impregnate the clutch plates. It is caused by the anti-friction additives added to automotive oils. A motorcycle specific oil will prevent clutch chattering.
 
bdalameda said:
Does the clutch grab and make a squawking noise when it is hot? If so what you are experiencing is called clutch chatter. Oil type has everything to do with clutch chatter. It can take quite a while for chattering to stop after changing oils as the oil additives that cause this will impregnate the clutch plates. It is caused by the anti-friction additives added to automotive oils. A motorcycle specific oil will prevent clutch chattering.
Click to expand...

No, their is no noise or chatter from the clutch, I use Motorex semi synthetic oil (motorcycle) 10w-40. I use the same oil on my Fjr1300.
Just when hot and moving from a standing start do you feel it snatch at the rear wheel (cush rubbers)when letting out the last movement on the clutch lever
I'll change my oil to some other brand, maybe fully syn - but not convinced

Going nuts
[h=1][/h]
 
I would dis-assemble and inspect both the master cylinder and the slave cylinder. You may be surprised how much gunk & rust you find in the slave cylinder. And IF the lips on the rubber seals looks OK , believe it or not, you may be able to re-assemble using the old seals after cleaning up the bores and your problem may be solved, using the old seals !!!

I just dis-assembled ( just for S & G's ) the MC on my old GL1100I that I recently purchased and since the seal lip looked brand new, I re-used it.

Same with the seals on a set of 4-pot brake calipers that were pretty bound-up with gunk on a friends F4R. After we cleaned up the seals, they looked like new, so we re-used them. Saved him a chunk of change.
 
Jim Van said:
I would dis-assemble and inspect both the master cylinder and the slave cylinder. You may be surprised how much gunk & rust you find in the slave cylinder. And IF the lips on the rubber seals looks OK , believe it or not, you may be able to re-assemble using the old seals after cleaning up the bores and your problem may be solved, using the old seals !!!

I just dis-assembled ( just for S & G's ) the MC on my old GL1100I that I recently purchased and since the seal lip looked brand new, I re-used it.

Same with the seals on a set of 4-pot brake calipers that were pretty bound-up with gunk on a friends F4R. After we cleaned up the seals, they looked like new, so we re-used them. Saved him a chunk of change.
Click to expand...

Have done both , master and slave cylinder overhaul, even change the hydraulic hose.

Grinder out and ready to cut.
 
bdalameda said:
If the clutch is not making noise, I would pull the rear wheel and check the splines and the drive cushion.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking it could be something with the rear drive, what else can i do ! I know the rear spider spines are good and the cush rubbers -oh well - strip down tomorrow.

You only feel the snatching from the rear wheel area, but really funny that it's only when i have done a few miles that it appears? I'll put the cutting torch away till
after a final check.
 
I'll be interested in what you find. Mine does more or less the same thing. I hadn't noticed that it was only when warm. I'll be paying better attention now. I do find that I can avoid the noise if I slip the clutch a bit longer at the very end. I was going to tear into mine too because I worried I was losing a ujoint, but I decided to just keep riding and deal with it when it finally gets bad enough that I don't have to do an Easter egg hunt to find the problem. I had suspected the same things you have already checked, so now I'm really curious what you'll find.
 
Ok Stripped down the rear wheel and removed the cush rubbers. I don't know if this is normal but their was deep scores in the outer rim where they makes contact with the outer ridge on the cush rubbers., Was this restricting the cush rubber movement from taking up the slack from the clutch, i don't know, but no movement in these rubbers could be my problem. I sanded out these score marks and the rubbers slipped in nicely. Nothing else found so i reassembled the wheel.
Since I could not find anything distinctive, decided to change my engine oil back to Motul.
Had the bike out and the very slightest of clutch snatching the rear wheel was felt, nothing like it was. Waiting for the weather to break so i can give it the works.
If it was the engine oil it should get better as the plates get used to the new oil or if not the oil it will surely get worse as time goes by.
These cush rubbers were after market and wondering if they are harder than the originals, thus reducing the slack/movement when releasing the clutch, but why only when hot!
Anyway, lets hope it is the engine oil.
 
After-market ST1100 cush rubbers (dampers)...? Pray tell! Source, part identifier and cost?

When I replaced mine for the third time some time ago, my local Honda dealer parts clerk did a search and told me there were only ~50 of them in stock in the whole USA. TTBOMK, these rubber dampers are unique to the ST1100.

Edit: The scoring is NOT normal. And new Honda rubber dampers fit so tightly that they have to be pounded into their recesses in the wheel with a deadblow hammer.

John
 
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I have recently been experiencing a similar problem...

Bike doesnt get too hot, not even close to the red area, but the clutch starts to loosen up. and I live in the great 907 where temps arent even in the 80s on a nice day! as soon as I get going down the road just a bit it cools off and works fine...
 
John OoSTerhuis said:
After-market ST1100 cush rubbers (dampers)...? Pray tell! Source, part identifier and cost?

When I replaced mine for the third time some time ago, my local Honda dealer parts clerk did a search and told me there were only ~50 of them in stock in the whole USA. TTBOMK, these rubber dampers are unique to the ST1100.

Edit: The scoring is NOT normal. And new Honda rubber dampers fit so tightly that they have to be pounded into their recesses in the wheel with a deadblow hammer.

John
Click to expand...

Ebay uk, type in st1100 cush rubbers and they pop up in volume. I thought the bad scoring wasn't normal, after cleaning they slipped in nice and firm.
What was the reason for changing yours ? three times, general maintenance or a problem????
 
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