Hi apparently it turns in neutral, doesn't turn in gear with the clutch lever pulled in !
hes not allowed to be exhausted lol x
hes not allowed to be exhausted lol x
Clutch bearings??
- Thread starter Pilliongirl
- Start date
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Sorry PG - I don't understand. What turns in neutral? If you mean that:
Those gear ratios I quoted last night (11.73:1 from the engine crankshaft to the rear wheel) also work the other way. Yes, if the bike is in gear and the clutch lever is pulled in, then theoretically you SHOULD be able to turn the wheel - BUT - if the new discs are stuck together, you won't. If they are stuck, then you are trying to turn over the engine 11.73 revolutions for each revolution of the wheel - I doubt you could do it because you simply do not have enough mechanical advantage through that gear train. The upshot is that your clutch may be doing exactly what it is supposed to do - except that the new discs are sticking together.
Try this:
AFTER the soak period;
My old 1976 Yamaha XS650 twin came to me last winter with a totally stuck clutch - and I broke it loose using exactly this method. It took a little while, but it worked like a charm: I'm still riding it and the clutch works just fine.
NOTE: you must put oil in the engine before doing this - those new discs are intended to be soaked in engine oil before being installed. If this operation does not work and you have to disassemble the clutch to see what's wrong: then just be sure to soak the discs before reassembly. All you will have lost is a few litres of engine oil.
Pete
Sorry PG - I don't understand. What turns in neutral? If you mean that:
- the bike is in gear;
- clutch lever is pulled in;
- you are trying to turn the rear wheel by hand;
Those gear ratios I quoted last night (11.73:1 from the engine crankshaft to the rear wheel) also work the other way. Yes, if the bike is in gear and the clutch lever is pulled in, then theoretically you SHOULD be able to turn the wheel - BUT - if the new discs are stuck together, you won't. If they are stuck, then you are trying to turn over the engine 11.73 revolutions for each revolution of the wheel - I doubt you could do it because you simply do not have enough mechanical advantage through that gear train. The upshot is that your clutch may be doing exactly what it is supposed to do - except that the new discs are sticking together.
Try this:
- put engine oil in the engine as per the spec;
- pull in the clutch lever and lash it in with a bungee cord;
AFTER the soak period;
- put the bike on the floor (clutch lever still lashed to the handlebar) and sit on it;
- click the bike into a higher gear - NOT first - maybe 3rd (a higher gear will LOWER that 11.73 gear ratio number);
My old 1976 Yamaha XS650 twin came to me last winter with a totally stuck clutch - and I broke it loose using exactly this method. It took a little while, but it worked like a charm: I'm still riding it and the clutch works just fine.
NOTE: you must put oil in the engine before doing this - those new discs are intended to be soaked in engine oil before being installed. If this operation does not work and you have to disassemble the clutch to see what's wrong: then just be sure to soak the discs before reassembly. All you will have lost is a few litres of engine oil.
Pete
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Well latest update- many thanks for
your suggestions and support - bike back together wheels turning and clutch doing as it should BUT still original knocking which disappears when the clutch is pulled in , running out of funds so can't give it to a garage to diagnose - sound is definitely coming from clutch basket area so almost back to square one! Good thing to come out of it is hubby can remove and replace a clutch quite easily in the future!
Wish you guys lived closer !!
your suggestions and support - bike back together wheels turning and clutch doing as it should BUT still original knocking which disappears when the clutch is pulled in , running out of funds so can't give it to a garage to diagnose - sound is definitely coming from clutch basket area so almost back to square one! Good thing to come out of it is hubby can remove and replace a clutch quite easily in the future!
Wish you guys lived closer !!
If you look at my 2nd photo closely there are some scratches around the basket edge ( look more like a dark line on pictures) does this suggest anything??
Yup - those marks do not look right to me - BUT - I've never been inside an ST1100 clutch before.
Any 1100 people offer an opinion?
Any 1100 people offer an opinion?
So PillionGirl - how's it going over 'ome?
Hiya not bad still deciding whether to keep the pan!
Not sure if it would be worth the work so I'm a bit glum at the minute!
how are things with you?
Not sure if it would be worth the work so I'm a bit glum at the minute!
how are things with you?
I'm just fine thanks - but there MUST be a reason for this weird noise in the clutch.
I'm an ST1300 person, but there are some really knowledgeable ST1100 folks on this forum - I would hope that someone will have a solution for you.
I suggest you start a new thread - and point to this one stating that it appears the clutch is properly assembled etc. - describe the noise and perhaps even make a recording of it. SOMEONE has got to know how to fix it. The 1100 is supposed to be as tough as nails - there's no reason to ditch yours quite yet (although I can understand why you and hubby are weary of it).
The other thing would be to visit a bike breakers yard and see if they have a nice low miles clutch basket (the big round thing that has the odd wear marks on it).
Chin-up - good times ahead.
Pete
Good evening, we're giving it one last shot with the bike , going to change all clutch bearings except the one you have to strip the engine for!! Hoping that will do the trick he's only 57000 miles old so just a baby!
will let you
know how we get on
take care and thanks for your kick up the backside!!
will let you
know how we get on
take care and thanks for your kick up the backside!!
Hey there - how did it go with the clutch bearings?
Pete
Pete
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
In the picture of the clutch hub with bearing - I zoomed in close and the needle bearings in the center of the hub look flat to me those rollers should not be flat. If this is the case the hub center bearing is shot and needs to be replaced along with the hub spacer that rides on the bearing. Hard to see well in the picture so I may be wrong.
I am in agreement with bdalameda on this one, the needle bearings in the center look completely worn flat, which would explain the rattling around noise and the scrapes on the outside of the housing.
I would start by replacing that damaged one first. (but I also agree, that its hard to tell from the picture)
I would start by replacing that damaged one first. (but I also agree, that its hard to tell from the picture)
Hey Larry, question about the 1100 vs 1300's. My 1300 clutch basket is driven by a two piece gear (primary drive I think its called). The two halves (essentially one gear placed on top of the other) have a spring slotted into a machined groove in both gears. When the clutch basket is installed, the spring is compressed by using a screw driver to advance the top gear one tooth in relation to the bottom gear. The primary drive gear's teeth engage in teeth around the perimeter of the clutch basket. My bike (1300) was normal for a couple of years, then I had a Honda dealership work on the clutch and when I got it back it sounded like there was loose gravel in the clutch. Seems there was no preload on the primary drive gear. Pulling it apart and adding said preload solved the noise problem.
So, is the 1100 clutch basket driven by the same two piece gear as the 1300?
bdalameda
PaleoCyclist
That gear design was developed by Honda many years ago to prevent backlash noise from the primary gears. I do not believe the St1100 uses this system.
I do not believe the Pan European (ST1100) uses the same system.
Good find for your clutch noise, I have heard of other folks have similar issues after a dealership just swapped the clutch components out, and didn't know to preload the primary drive gear.
Thanks for sharing that information with the forum.
Igofar
Good find for your clutch noise, I have heard of other folks have similar issues after a dealership just swapped the clutch components out, and didn't know to preload the primary drive gear.
Thanks for sharing that information with the forum.
Igofar
Hi guys, update time!
had to wait for hearings from Belgium, picked them up
this week , release plate bearing and a thrust bearing so going to change them and see how it sounds.
is the preload you're talking about actually in the engine ?? If so it's beyond our capabilities and not a job we could afford to pay for !! Just gonna take some photos for you to look at hopefully they'll be better than the last ones.
had to wait for hearings from Belgium, picked them up
this week , release plate bearing and a thrust bearing so going to change them and see how it sounds.
is the preload you're talking about actually in the engine ?? If so it's beyond our capabilities and not a job we could afford to pay for !! Just gonna take some photos for you to look at hopefully they'll be better than the last ones.
Any suggestions as to where we can get the roller bearing for the clutch basket from ? trawled the net with no success!!
Bd and Larry above said that your 1100 do not have that type of split gear, so nothing to worry about. If you did have it, its teeth drive the teeth of the big gear around your clutch basket. When you siip the clutch basket onto its shaft, just before pushing it rearward to engage the primary drive gear, you use a screw driver stuck in a slot to rotate the front gear one tooth forward, compressing the spring I talked about. Then push the basket's gear into the primary gear.
But, all this is moot since you don't have this feature on your bike.
But, all this is moot since you don't have this feature on your bike.